Disconcerting thoughts as we age. Chronic Cardio

Thoughts please?
This video I spotted has prompted me to revisit my thoughts on chronic cardio which first came to mind, must be 20 years ago or more when I read about Finnish orienteers gathering after events and passing viruses around with some deaths resulting.
Yes, endurance exercise potentially compromises immunity post session.
Overdoing it is also risky for the old ticker – here’s a video

Good series this and I’m sure it will grow. I’m not a fan of the Zoe diet he likes but Dr Peter Attia gets a positive vote from me.

No one thinking about this?  I’m amazed.

Mark Sisson off of basically inventing the paleo diet (which I was super into for years) has a huge bee in his bonnet about chronic cardio: https://blog.primalblueprint.com/episode-1-chronic-cardio/

I’m aware of it but basically decided the risks are a tradeoff I’m willing to make.

Certainly had thoughts about my own moratality, it’s not been a bad thing. I take fewer things for granted these days, my own health and more importantly the people round about me.
Ì’m at work just now so havent watched the video yet

Yes, endurance exercise potentially compromises immunity post session.

I think “potentially” is doing a lot of lifting there, and it depends. Certainly seems likely that someone doing a three-week stage race or the TCR is going to have a degree of immune impairment, but I was under the impression moderate exercise was *good* for immunity?

It’s better to live your life blissfully unaware of ‘research’ like this.

It’s right up there with the ‘a glass of wine a day is good for you’ and ‘red meat gives you cancer’. Possibly true, but not stuff to go planning your life around or obsessing over.

Well that’s his opinion.

More seriously, doing a lot of cardio training means you’re nearly always a bit fatigued,( and a bit sore somewhere), and anecdotally a lot of people seem to pick up sniffles and so on when they’re very ‘peak’. So yes, your immune system is a bit compromised, and I’ve known people who avoid others when they’ve just finished a long run/ride till they’re a bit less compromised.

But I’m not planning on spending my life doing nothing and hiding in a dark room away from bugs just because of someone on YOuTube..

Starting to pay a bit more attention to exercise-induced cardio things with another internet-acquaintance having just died of a heart attack in early 50s. (Fit, recreational marathon runner type.) Obviously not a huge risk, but it’s equally clear that there can be an issue and perhaps it’s worth knowing about what is likely to induce it.

I may have misremembered but I think in a subsequent video he talks about the importance of VO2 max, and how it requires some strenuous cardio work. So do you take it easy? Or go hard? Or just do what you want?

But I’m not planning on spending my life doing nothing and hiding in a dark room away from bugs just because of someone on YOuTube..

I would imagine a more common sense approach such as don’t soley focus on cardio expecting that to be the only exercise you need do. Cardio is just one aspect. Focusing less on cardio will allow you time to fit strength and mobility work into your exercise regime also.

Good job I’m doing that then 🙂

Last person I saw die of a heart attack was in his 40’s, was slim to say the least and had a genetic condition. The later was the problem

Adds to list of reasons to avoid cardio. The devil of exercise. I’ll stick to lifting things, pushing, pulling, flipping and hitting them.

The Mark Sissons book Primal Endurance was an interesting read. Basically saying that folk shouldn’t do too much training at ‘tempo’ or the more extreme intensities, and that there’s lots to be gained by doing 80-90% of your training at aerobic intensity (as per your Garmin or ~180bpm minus your age) as that gives the greatest lung and heart capacity benefits without stressing the body too much. I’ve got pals doing x4 really intense Zwift races per week – and that sort of stress is bad for your body according to Sissons. Lots of articles suggesting the same is good for – polarised training, 80:20 etc – where intensity should be included but in low volumes.

He’s a big advocate of more stretching, weights, core exercises, improving your balance – all key things to work on when you get to my age – 50.

As suggested above – as long as you’re pretty balanced in what you do, luck and genetics are likely to be bigger factors for most folk with regard to when the grim reaper appears.

“It’s right up there with the ‘a glass of wine a day is good for you’ “

Except if you believe a glass of wine is good for you and it makes you happy to brlieve it, It is good for you!

The author of this article is just a miserable git!

And there’s a lot worse ways to go than having a dodgy ticker!

There is some info that if you’re really caning it at high cardiac stress all the time that is bad for you as you age, so adapting to a lower intensity across your training is sensible. But suspect many of us would struggle to hit the amounts that cause major problems, and benefit probs outweighs risk.

There’s New Evidence on Heart Health in Endurance Athletes

The article linked by @susepic gives a positive message. For all the worries about statistical manipulation and proxy factors like levels of calcification, scarring and A-fib, for the real endpoint (mortality): “measure their VO2 max to get an unambiguous assessment of aerobic fitness, the outcome is clear. The fitter you are, the longer you’re expected to live”.

I heard the same sentiment on a recent Zoe podcast about exercise: a good VO2 max is a predictor of longevity.

No one thinking about this?  I’m amazed.

Since I am getting on a bit I have been watching Simon Willis’ videos on “older athletes” including the one you link to. Since I’m no endurance athlete I don’t think I have any urgent cardio issues to address.

That cardiologist has got me thinking I should start bouldering again though, having not climbed for over 30 years.

I may have misremembered but I think in a subsequent video he talks about the importance of VO2 max, and how it requires some strenuous cardio work.

Correct, but not a lot.

If you are concerned about your numbers it’s worth looking at the crickles website and hooking it to your Strava, it’ll give you an assessment of your relative risk for arrhythmia based on your HR data versus a population model ….and it has some useful stuff on power and fitness distribution as well

https://crickles.casa/

As a geriatric millennial I’m starting to see the side effects of long-term cardio exercise. A recent MRI showed mild dilation which the consultant has put down to athletic adaptation, which is leading to occasional and interesting arrhythmias.

I asked him whether the level of exercise was overall damaging to my heart and he was very much on the fence. There is some fibrosis caused by dilation, but there’s no empirical evidence to suggest that this actually has any long-term negative impact. Overall someone taking regular exercise regardless of intensity will almost certainly live a longer and healthier life than someone who doesn’t.

The biggest risk is atrial fibrillation and consequent stroke etc. He did say that many of the changes induced by exercise will revert to “normal” with a training break of 8 weeks, but that very few people who exercise regularly are prepared to do this.

I also read that a significant break is a good thing and always have a chunk of downtime after a marathon training plan. Run through the winter, then pick up the cycling (at a less serious intensity) through the summer. I hope it works for me 🙂 Also maybe good to give my joints something different after pounding the tarmac for several months. As well as the heart attacks, there are plenty of ex-runners who have worn out various bits and pieces through over-use and especially pushing through injuries.

If someone on the internet told you – which they probably will / have / should – that ultimately the healthiest way of living would be to… walk 10,000 steps a day at a brisk pace, do a couple of resistance sessions a week (but without trying too hard) and doing goat yoga every couple of days for mobility and eating a diet composed of bean-sprouts and 50 different vegetables a week would you think yeah, I’ll spend the rest of my days in a miserable trudge towards longevity or would you think, hey, I think I’ll ride my bike and listen to my body?

This is like one of those studies the tabloids love that show any sort of exercise is really bad for you – ‘Fit people risk early death from shoe wear!’. ‘Runners inhale more pollution and may die’ etc – based on research generated by an academic system that prizes polarised, confrontational arguing. ‘People say exercise is good for you, I shall prove that it is in fact deadly’.

Thoughts? If you believe that the average STWer is at risk from ‘chronic cardio’, whatever that is, and spends large amounts of time hammering high intensity intervals, you may be very mistaken.

If you ride bikes / do weight or other resistance training / stay mobile / eat a sane diet minimising UPF and excessive amounts of sugar, alcohol etc and listen to your body and seek expert medical advice when indicated then you’ll almost certainly do just fine in health terms compared to someone who does not much and eats badly.

And from my experience, as you age, your body’s capacity for high intensity work – mostly its ability to recover quickly – self-regulates in the sense that slower recovery actually limits your ability to do more than a couple, maybe three, properly intense sessions a week.

And finally, you can do all ‘the right things’ and still die early, get cancer, a chronic neurological condition  or whatever thanks to genetics, chance because life.

TLDR: life’s too short to listen to click-baiting ‘experts’ on the internet because scientific studies are generally flawed in some way and the stress of worrying  – hello ‘disconcerting thoughts – whether your cycling is impacting your heart will probably kill you faster than excessive ‘chronic cardio’ – what is that again? – maybe.  And avoid snogging Finnish triathletes after training sessions just in case.

Thanks for posting that BWD.

Saved me typing it 😉 😆

@flaperon interesting. Same issue for me. “competitive” distance runner for 40+ yrs (well I tried hard!) caught Covid, then Pleurisy then AF. Now on thinners and BP meds (BP only marginally high) Specialist says “common with you old cycling and distance running types” Still run about 40mpw (im 59) and I suspect the mix of drugs is holding me back from being a bit more competitive in my age group which is a bummer.

The message seems to be 80/20 which is roughly what I follow anyway, probably closer to 85/15 easy to hard. Aging acts as a natural brake anyway.

snogging Finnish triathletes

Well, if your time is up, there are worse ways to go.

What @BadlyWiredDog said, 100% 👍

Any advice on how to snog Finnish triathletes (without having to go to Finland) very welcome!

I don’t understand bwd’s reaction to the video, doesn’t make sense to me.

I’m not sure it is his reaction to the video but if it is I stand corrected.