Yebbut, we all spent years riding bikes that were well suited to pro racing, with massive gears and requiring contorted body positions. Those bikes are rather less useful for a social Sunday morning club run.

And it’s fine that people want to ride something a bit more comfy and practical than what the pros choose to race on.

But to force the pros to race on something that is more suited to a Sunday morning club run is a bit daft. And I doubt many of the pros particularly want to use disc brakes – the manufacturers are however keen to sell it as an essential new technology that is “better”. And in some ways it is, just not in ways that’ll win you a race.

I don’t care if pros use them or not but I will be getting at least a fork & front cable brake sometime fairly soon. I don’t race and I don’t do big group rides. Discs are way better for me on the road.

And in some ways it is, just not in ways that’ll win you a race.

swift bike swap at the top of a col following an attack up the climb ?

“How do you prove something safe unless you use it for a prolonged period, until either you gather COMPELLING evidence of injuries or find that you don’t (which would ‘prove’ the opposite)?”

Very very difficult. But I would suggest that without the answer to that question one should take a different approach, perhaps asking questions like “how do discs improve pro cycling for spectators and / or riders?” and “if you were going to crash in a pile of bikes at 30 mph would you happily flip a coin as to whether you landed in the pile that had discs or the pile without, or would you choose the pile without?”

I note that no-one has explained to me how the UCI are ruining cycling by refusing to allow weight weenie bikes and making Lo Pros and 24″ front wheels illegal?

“if you were going to crash in a pile of bikes at 30 mph would you happily flip a coin as to whether you landed in the pile that had discs or the pile without, or would you choose the pile without?”

Well, in the absence of any credible evidence I doubt it would make any difference… I wouldn’t want to crash into a pile of bikes at 30mph full stop.

“if you were going to crash in a pile of bikes at 30 mph would you happily flip a coin as to whether you landed in the pile that had discs or the pile without, or would you choose the pile without?”

without and so would any sane person. I don’t know how much more of a danger discs are in the pro peloton. But the guys who are actually doing the job don’t seem to like them. How would people on here think if something that they viewed as a health and safety risk was imposed upon them in their workplace ?????

How would people on here think if something that they viewed as a health and safety risk was imposed upon them in their workplace

The truth is if I opposed something on H&S grounds for which I had no real evidence then the reality is that my management would impose it. I would then grumble & get on with it.

taxi25 – Member

How would people on here think if something that they viewed as a health and safety risk was imposed upon them in their workplace ?????

If there was something that could make my job safer that was banned for no good reason I’d be pretty unhappy !!!!!

Coaster brakes work in the wet and don’t ruin you rims.

Just saying.

how do discs improve pro cycling for spectators and / or riders?

Don’t know yet – we haven’t seen how much faster / later braking would be achieved on a big descent 😉

swift bike swap at the top of a col following an attack up the climb ?
[/quote]

I think he was after something which will make you faster.

force the pros to race on something

How does the UCI allowing discs to be used turn into “forcing” people to use them?

bails – Member

How does the UCI allowing discs to be used turn into “forcing” people to use them?

TBH the anti argument seems largely based on there being simultaneously a performance advantage, which is dangerous because of different braking capabilities in the peleton, and also being no performance advantages.

Oh and as it turns out, also the ability for brake discs to cause injuries even in crashes where none of the bikes had brake discs.

I think he was after something which will make you faster

Not quite sure I get you. I suppose a truly gifted pedant might say they’d make you “slower”, but discs for a descent – way “shorter time for the trip”, I predict. Well worth taking 5-10 seconds to swap bikes at the top (or, hey, just ride the “faster” bike all the way ! 😉 )

– IMO

– until tested

– unless you take GCN’s word for it in that vid linked on this thread where they “tested” it

I do wish people would stop spouting this crap. It’s nothing to do with absolute power, it’s to do with how that power is applied and the modulation and control that you can have.

If the modulation is better why were almost no pros using discs in a muddy cyclo cross race?

If the modulation is better why were almost no pros using discs in a muddy cyclo cross race?

as we all know, discs don’t work at all in mud – and even if they did, they’d clog solid in about 20 seconds flat.

that’s why mtbers have abandoned them for cantis and have a mechanic waiting every 2-3 miles with a clean bike instead

Shirley the half tonnes of motor bikes being badly driven are more of a hazard..

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNJ446KRdY[/video]

why haven’t we seen a decapitated pro cross country racer yet?

Motorbikes are a problem, start thread and discuss it, thats not what this one is about.

XC racers dont ride in packs six deep with overlapping wheels 50kph.

But nobody has actually been injured by a disc rotor yet.. One guy crashed into non disc brake bikes and has blamed the rotor and another guy can’t actually recall what he hit.. And from his injury it seems unlikely to be caused by hitting a rotor. Do the benefits of disc brakes outweigh the likelihood of getting injured by a rotor or is it just resistance to change and new technology?

But nobody has actually been injured by a disc rotor yet.. One guy crashed into non disc brake bikes and has blamed the rotor and another guy can’t actually recall what he hit.. And from his injury it seems unlikely to be caused by hitting a rotor. Do the benefits of disc brakes outweigh the likelihood of getting injured by a rotor or is it just resistance to change and new technology?

Agree with this, it’s easy to blame a new technology especially one they don’t really want.

Cheers, Steve

Yes that photo exactly represents what an XC race looks like.

course, you’re right – it only looks like that until they all try to squeeze together onto a 3ft wide path 😀

All this talk of spinning wheels and angle grinder esq discs. I’ve had a look at a fair few TdF crashes now on YouTube and in nearly, if not all circumstances, all wheels are stationary in a split second as the wheels and tyres inevitably touch something and then stop. The wheels and tyres are so light that there’s little momentum in them, you can stop a road wheel at high speed with you hand on the tyre and it only slightly smarts.

Coaster brakes work in the wet and don’t ruin you rims.
Just saying.

Now this would make for more spectacular descending. Especially if they had (as is traditional with Coaster brakes) ornamental or non-existant front brakes. Definite benefit for spectators.

nearly, if not all circumstances, all wheels are stationary in a split second as the wheels and tyres inevitably touch something and then stop.

I always thought it was the heat of the disk that was the issue.

Was just fiddling with bikes in the garage, stood my bike up and ran (gently) into the back of it astride my other one. I can’t get my left leg anywhere near the disc rotor on the other one while still astride the bike. You’d have to have to be a contortionist or go-go-gadget legged. I can barely get the knee onto the disc off the bike, you’re practically astride the back wheel and need supermodel long femurs

Four hour ride this morning, quite hilly, constant rain, lots of gritty farm roads, not once did I want for better brakes. Legs, lungs for sure but the brakes worked perfectly every time they were needed.

I dont know why that bother people, if you like bikes with discs buy one, if you dont, dont but one.

Christ, I’m beginning to look like a zealot here (and I really don’t care what the pros use*, honest)

However: This afternoon I went out on the road to watch a mate who was in a race. Relatively dry roads but I didn’t trust the weather (had hailstones just before I got out) so took the winter bike. I was genuinely amazed at how “instant” and good the braking was, ’til I remembered which bike I was on (BB7 discs, nowt flashy)

*as long as I can soon buy a cheapish, dependable and good-feeling road (race) aftermarket through-axle disc fork to fit my current “best” bike

BB7 discs

Got them on my steel stead and tbh I wouldn’t go out my way to buy a bike with rim brakes again.

Cheers, Steve

philjunior – And you know Sagan is going to deliberately lock up the back end for skidz on some big hairpin..,

All mountain bikes should be red because I’ve got a red car and its my favourite car.

So you were amazed by BB7’s performance in the dry, while handily ignoring the fact they are just essentially calipers, albeit ones with disadvantages over the traditional rim brake.

Scaredypants yes a mtb race starts like that for about 2 minutes with around ~50 riders, but compare that with road that will have ~200 riders riding like that for 5-8 hours, really not comparable at all.

So you were amazed by BB7’s performance in the dry, while handily ignoring the fact they are just essentially calipers, albeit ones with disadvantages over the traditional rim brake.

Yes, correct – though I didn’t need to ignore anything as this was an observation based on my actual experience. Weird isn’t it that they were that much better even in conditions where rim brakes work “best”?

Scaredypants yes a mtb race starts like that for about 2 minutes with around ~50 riders, but compare that with road that will have ~200 riders riding like that for 5-8 hours, really not comparable at all.

Well, I’m just mucking about there really 😳 (though it is patently true that, contrary to the initial statement, pretty much every pro xc race starts with riders sprinting (often 12 or more abreast) before slamming on the brakes as the bunch funnels (or fails to) into a much narrower track

So you were amazed by BB7’s performance in the dry, while handily ignoring the fact they are just essentially calipers, albeit ones with disadvantages over the traditional rim brake.

And big advantages. Leverage ratio on the pads, mainly. And a dedicated braking surface, that’s away from water on the road surface.

Discs are better. End of. No arguments.

TBH the anti argument seems largely based on there being simultaneously a performance advantage, which is dangerous because of different braking capabilities in the peleton, and also being no performance advantages.

Oh and as it turns out, also the ability for brake discs to cause injuries even in crashes where none of the bikes had brake discs.

Cheers popped in to see how this got to so many pages

Who could have guessed it would be such a STW thread.

Bike companies obviously desperately want all pro’s to use discs. To them it’s irrelevant if they work better, it just means they sell more bikes.

Does appear that the pro’s don’t want them. As to why? Dunno any pro roadies on here?

I think both crazy-legs and Njee are proper racers and both have already commented on this thread.

Personally, I couldn’t care either way, but I do hate seeing technology stymied by perceived flaws that hold little relevance to real world events.

Thanks for the complement Daffy, not entirely sure i can call myself a proper racer, done my share though 🙂

I can’t decide how I feel about discs on the road, I don’t think they’re necessary, I built up a new road bike last year with rim brakes, which are fine 99.9% of the time, but for the 0.01% of times they’re inadequate. I really don’t understand everyone saying discs are no better, you can lock wheels with rim brakes etc. It’s exactly the same arguments as on an MTB 15 years ago. Do none of these people ride MTBs? Discs are better, I’m entirely convinced of that, just whether we need better, or whether it’s a worthwhile improvement.

In racing… Dunno, I’d never thought of the ‘circular saw’ thing until this, I’m not entirely sure the alleged injury was caused by a rotating disc, as it looks rather ‘teethy’, and being a left leg a cassette interface feels more likely. From a plausibility perspective, I Agree they don’t have much momentum, but they probably don’t need it – we’re not talking decapitation or anything, just nasty flesh wounds, I suspect when bikes are flying around, potentially with people still pedalling them you could get some nasty injuries.

Back to the original point of whether they’re necessary… Seems stupid not to listen to the riders. Do those that have tested them in races think they’re unnecessary? Are they doing it through sponsor obligation? Curiosity? Or because they think they have something to offer? I genuinely don’t know. Obviously the open letter from Fran whatshisname decries their use, but I think there’s a degree of reticence to change.

My next winter bike will have discs on it though, 100%, and I’m mildly twitchy at the thought of taking my Chinese carbon wheel, rim brake shod, bike to the Alps.

TL/DR: discs are better, you’re an idiot to suggest otherwise, I don’t think they’re necessary most of the time, but they’re a nice to have and I’m undecided for racing.