I’ve read a few other posts online which put Ventoso’s claim that Nikolas Maes was also the victim of a disc injury into severe doubt, as there were no teams using discs involved in the crash that injured him, nor anywhere near it…

Are we against aero spokes too? 40 sharp 30cm long blades PER BIKE spinning at 200rpm, that’s TEN THOUSAND per race 😯

Classic thread for trolls, the righteous and hand wringers. I can’t understand why folk get so angry about this. I race, so have bikes with caliper brakes and also have a lovely Colonago with disc’s that I tool around on when not racing, and obviously have a bang on trend grrrravel bike. Luckily, I look ‘pro’ on all my bikes.

lovely Colonago

I bet that’s shit hot 😉

For whatever reason … the pros don’t seem to perceive any problems with their current brakes

Most local roadies I know (myself included) are of the same opinion.

I guess if I lived somewhere with long tricky descents, or had to commute in heavy traffic in all weathers, then maybe I’d feel differently.

I’ve read a few other posts online which put Ventoso’s claim that Nikolas Maes was also the victim of a disc injury into severe doubt,

I also have doubts (not saying it didn’t happen, just that there are unanswered questions in my scientifically sceptical mind) about whether a disc caused the Ventoso injury.

He believes it was caused by a disc rotor but in his report of the events he doesn’t say who he ran into. Was it a disc brake rider – if it was then surely you’d say so.

Secondly in his own words, he didn’t fall, he just touched the back of another riders bike. With his left leg, on the left hand side of that rider’s bike. How?

If your cycling to work, in the rain, in Halifax, discs suicide make a lot of sense, no question about it.

FTFY

but there almost looks like regularly spaced teeth marks round the periphery of the wound at the bottom, no?

Can’t disagree with that!

I for one am glad the UCI have got off their backsides and binned them.

Now all we need is for them to be as decisive in more pressing issues sitting on those lovely oak desks in oak panelled drawing board offices eh…

typical UCI, bugger all resolve no interest in progress just cave in to the luddite whingers…

TBH the issue of deadly blades of doom removing princesses limbs has already been solved by bicycle polo:

If the manufacturers can persuade the boys club to try another trial after this debacle I would expect to see some aero-sexy-carbon version of that, plus it’s another thing to flog the spotivists…

cookeaa – or anyone else who shares your view – can you please answer a few questions –

(1) What problem in road racing do disc brakes solve?
(2) How do disc brakes make road racing better for the participants or the spectators?
(3) How do you feel about UCI’s minimum weight limits?
(4) How do you feel about UCI’s rules on geometry and wheel sizes?
(5) If the UCI were truly forward thinking they would allow electric motors (after all the winner would still be the bloke who puts out the most power above what the motor ddoes). Discuss.
(6) Do you think that the UCI was foolish to rush them in without more extensive testing and consultation?

I would expect to see some aero-sexy-carbon version of that

Like the one on page 2?

We dont need all rhose questions,

Do you regularly ride in groups or race?

Yes = Dont want discs.
No = Do want discs.

I’ve been less convinced about the whole discs are best things since going to a big cyclo cross race

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-going-to-the-cx-world-cup-in-milton-keynes/page/2

Almost no one used discs. I loved these quotes from the Trek riders

Sven and Katie gave their reasons for their choice to use canti’s over discs. They both said modulation and being able to ‘feel’ the braking. They said at the moment discs don’t give the feedback that canti’s do and you’ can skid to before you know it with discs. She did say though that for dry races they were fine. They also both liked the lightness of cantis over the heavier disc set ups.

Do you regularly ride in groups or race?

Yes = Dont want discs.
No = Do want discs.

Yes = don’t want to get injured or killed by a support vehicle

But nobody’s doing anything about that, almost like a single injury allegedly from a contentious source is taking the heat off them.

The team bike and component sponsors will drive this more than the teams themselves – sponsor wants to drive sales and disc brakes are enforced obsolescence in the market.
Pro riders will simply ride what they’re paid to ride as long as they’re not disadvantaged e.g. unreliable
The benefit for racing is more predictable braking in the rain – carbon rims, rim brakes and rain are not a great combo.
Riders have been having lumps carved out of them due to crashes for years – road furniture probably causes more injuries but it hasn’t stopped them – it’s an accepted occupational hazard

Obviously have to respect the views of a pro rider ^ however some of the logic still escapes me. FWIW, my last Olympic Triathlon ended 200m into the bike leg. A motorcycle clashed with the bike in front of me, we all ended up in a collision and I had a chunk of skin flapping around my ankle and blood staining the good roads of Windsor! To my disappointment at the time, the marshals grabbed my bike and stopped me continuing. Off to Slough hospital in an ambulance for some impressive sticking to reattach the flapping skin.

No disc brakes but one bloody motorcycle marshall in the way.

Ok, it’s an anecdote but bikes have lots of sharp bits that win in a battle with soft flesh. Indeed I have a cut in my shin now caused by my pedal on an early evening ride today.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this wasn’t at least partly a conspiracy by the riders – they don’t want disc brakes so why not create a whole smokescreen around the issue, kick up a stink.

Says a lot that Ventoso doesn’t even know what he hit, in fact he continued riding for a while before realising that he was hurt and he seems to have jumped to the conclusion that it MUST have been a disc brake (cos obviously there is nothing else remotely sharp, pointy and sticky-outy on bikes, barriers, road furniture, other riders or the ground…)

The injury doesn’t look like a rotor cut it and it would be bloody difficult for a rotor to do that anyway, it’s pretty well shielded by the frame/forks. Even his manager doesn’t think it was a disc.

What gets me is the controlled way this has all been introduced, the UCI taking it’s time, weighing up all the issues, gradually filtering it in and then suddenly a knee-jerk ban based on seemingly one or two rider’s uncorroborated reports. Meanwhile motorbikes continue to pile into riders, riders will continue to crash in pretty much every race and nothing will be done.

then suddenly a knee-jerk ban based on seemingly one or two rider’s uncorroborated reports. Meanwhile motorbikes continue to pile into riders, riders will continue to crash in pretty much every race and nothing will be done.

The two things could be connected though, heightened awareness of being seen to act on rider safety in light of the recent tragedy.

It’s almost as if the uci are desperate for a bit of good publicity. Do what a couple of riders want, and everyone will forget about the other stuff for a while.

But…but..but..what about motorbikes, what about drugs, what about marshalls….what about xxxx..just a load of whataboutery!!

This thread is about discs and they are just not (prod you in the forehead) needed.

But…but..but..what about motorbikes, what about drugs, what about marshalls….what about xxxx..just a load of whataboutery!!

Agreed

This thread is about discs and they are just not (prod you in the forehead) needed.

Actually I probably agree with this too, but should they really be banned?

Cycling is a technology driven sport, the providers of the various technologies generally seem able to work within the rules as set, it’s a reciprocal relationship SBC/Trek/Giant/Merida/shimano/SRAM/Campag/etc all get to showcase their wares, while the UCI now get to “Approve” equipment for competition use (that doesn’t happen for free by the way)…

For the most part it works TBF everyone gets something from the deal. Except with discs, the manufacturers have seen the technology develop in various other branches of cycling for the last 25 years or so, to where it is now; a mature, well understood and, for consumers, pretty familiar concept…
But they can’t put it in their biggest shop window still. I don’t generally side with “the industry” but it just feels like resistance mostly for the sake of it… Its not like they’re asking for compulsion, just to broaden the rules to allow for it…

Someone mentioned the initial resistance to helmet compulsion when it came to pro-cyclist, the antis claimed to know and accept the risks of racing back then, but it went ahead anyway, more of a gladiatorial mindset than today where they are able to cry “Health and Safety” and get something they weren’t too keen on to start with banned without any real analysis…

If there’s truly no advantage to be had then that’d will be demonstrated through competition. So why the fervent desire to keep a ban disc brake use?
Surely if there’s no benefit riders and teams will naturally come back round to rim calipers and a rule change to allow discs, with guarding if you prefer, will still largely have no effect on the design of the bikes…

Obviously have to respect the views of a pro rider

Do you? I mean really do you have to?
While I might respect the individual, their ability, skill, commitment, etc they are still fallible humans and their views, like anyone else’s, can be plain wrong based on false assumptions or personal bias… Leccy shifting, 11 cogs at the back, carbonfibre everything all refined, increasingly complex technologies, not a peep about those, but discs have to be banned completely?

While I might respect the individual, their ability, skill, commitment, etc they are still fallible humans and their views, like anyone else’s, can be plain wrong based on false assumptions or personal bias… Leccy shifting, 11 cogs at the back, carbonfibre everything all refined, increasingly complex technologies, not a peep about those, but discs have to be banned completely?

But they didn’t object to those did they. Surely as its them riding together they should get to decide

I think a ban on road discs in pro racing would be a good thing because it will help force the split between bikes for competition and bike for leisure. part of the whole gravel bike thing is slow realisation that riding a copy of a road race bike might not always be the best if you are not racing yourself

Are any pro riders actually coming out in favour of discs? Seems odd to me that if the manufacturers are so keen to have them in the peloton, they’re not getting their riders to make the right noises.

Anyway, aside from the apparent dangers they just seem impractical to me in a road racing context. I crashed and bent a wheel on the way to work this week. Walked to my LBS and swapped it, like for like, with one from a demo bike and continued on my way. Disc rubbed all the way to work where I reset the caliper.
That was only 10km, wouldn’t it be a PITA for the last half of a Spring Classic?

Disc rubbed all the way to work where I reset the caliper.
That was only 10km, wouldn’t it be a PITA for the last half of a Spring Classic?

Very easy to standardise the position of the caliper / rotor when it’s being done by pro mechanics. Each team and neutral service would just need a centralising jig for the wheels, shim the rotors if hubs vary slightly, everythings’s transferrable.

I’ve done it for 3 sets of wheels so i can use across bikes, it’s just a process to scale this up.

I seem to see a few riders coming off on the outside of bends in these mountain races. Who was it that rode into someone’s driveway a few years back?

That kind of crash is caused by not enough braking power, ime, so discs could help there. BUT as we know from motor racing, this kind of improvement can result in higher speeds generally, which can result in more serious crashes when they do happen.

Thomas Voeckler about a minute in

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JOwg8shJc[/video]

but if your going too fast it doesn’t matter how good your brakes are ! 🙂

Running off the outside of a bend is caused by going too fast, not having enough traction or fixating on some “feature” rather than where you are meant to be going.

The only one that is brake related is the speed side of things, and the few times i’ve done it i’ve never actually run out of brakes. i.e. i could have easily doubled the friction between pad and rim. I’d have then skidded into the nearest bit of furniture. Even if i hadn’t hadn’t locked the wheels, it’d have exceeded the amount of traction available.

It’s essentially a judgement fail, rather than a component fail.

That kind of crash is caused by not enough braking power, ime, so discs could help there.

It’s caused by misjudging the corner. You could argue that if you had more stopping power that could get you out of trouble, but you’re racing and you’ll just have used that power to brake later and deeper. If you’ve badly misjudged the corner you’re still likely to crash.

Edit… what ghostly said!

molgrips – Member
I seem to see a few riders coming off on the outside of bends in these mountain races. Who was it that rode into someone’s driveway a few years back?

That kind of crash is caused by not enough braking power, ime, so discs could help there.

With any good set of rim brakes on a road bike, braking power is limited by tyre traction, not the brakes.
I have never felt the need for disks on my road bikes, and Ventoso makes the same point in his open letter.
The simple point is: disks aren’t a safety improvement in pro road racing. In fact the opposite.
It’s just about selling to consumers – the UCI only allowed disk brake use in the first place because it was repeatedly requested by the main manufacturer lobbying group (World Federation of Sporting Goods Industry, WFSGI).

the UCI only allowed disk brake use in the first place because it was repeatedly requested by the main manufacturer lobbying group

It’s the “what wins on a Sunday sells on a Monday” attitude. Use to be the same for cars and motorbikes.

And it may well be true for some segments of the bike market but I think most have moved past this. Best selling models now in most LBS seem to be those labelled endurance/comfort/sportive (e.g. Defy, Roubaix, Synapse). Also seems pretty clear people buying those bikes want discs. Maybe discs will be what finally forces the bike industry to move on (which may ironically not be a good thing for bike racing!)

Would seeing disc brakes in the pro peloton really influence anyones decision on whether they wanted discs on their next bike? It’s a bit like watching F1 and deciding I really need a giant spoiler on the back of my next car.

It’s the “what wins on a Sunday sells on a Monday” attitude

Be interesting to see if Hayman winning P-R on Scott’s aero bike is exploited or has any effect on sales.

Front page of the Scott website. Though one of the features titled “Cobble eating machine” is about the Solace, despite P-R being won on a Foil, interesting dilemma for Scott marketing department 😆

looks like they’re covering their bases with “#aerocomfortable” on the celebration pic, but then an other pic in the rotating banner of an IAM rider on what I assume is a Solace in front of Hayman….

Front page of the Scott website. Though one of the features titled “Cobble eating machine” is about the Solace, despite P-R being won on a Foil, interesting dilemma for Scott marketing department

I don’t think buyers are as easily led as some people are suggesting.

We understand why and how a race like that can be won on an aero bike, but many of us also happily admit that comfort is a higher priority for us than for the pros.

I didn’t buy a Defy ‘cos of who races on it, I genuinely have no idea. It just strikes the right balance for my needs.

Would seeing disc brakes in the pro peloton really influence anyones decision on whether they wanted discs on their next bike?

Massively. Whereas currently many people are continuing to choose rim brakes on the basis that the pro peloton doesn’t need anything better, if the pro peloton made a switch en masse to disc brakes, so would many others.

I don’t think buyers are as easily led as some people are suggesting.

Indeed.

Interesting to click through to the page on the Solace (here). Full of images of pro’s racing the bike on bumpy stuff.

Whereas currently many people are continuing to choose rim brakes on the basis that the pro peloton doesn’t need anything better,

I’d have thought riders would be capable of making up their own minds on whether they felt their braking was lacking something that could be addressed by discs 😕

I don’t think buyers are as easily led as some people are suggesting.

the point being whether the industry marketing men are the “some people”.

I DID buy my road because of who raced it. Kind of. It was seeing an FDJ-liveried Lapierre (in Compiegne for the start of P-R in 2011, funnily enough so coming vaguely back on track) that re-ignited my interest in owning a road bike after ~15 years of only riding MTBs. So I bought a Lapierre. Okay, so CRC selling old stock at 45% off helped… 😉

Would seeing disc brakes in the pro peloton really influence anyones decision

I think it would, if only to make them more mainstream and become the norm, rather than a slavish “wanna look like a pro” approach. At the minute people are used to seeing road bikes with caliper brakes, and on something as svelte and minimalist as a road bike a disc brake has a big impact on the bike’s aesthetics. As I said early in the thread, people are naturally resistant to change and at the minute disc-equipped road bikes are the abnormal minority.

But if the pro peloton are forced to ride disc braked bikes then I imagine that they will be what manufacturers concentrate on producing and then everybody will end up disced , like it or not .

I’d have thought riders would be capable of making up their own minds on whether they felt their braking was lacking something that could be addressed by discs

You could say the same about so many other things both within and without the cycling world. If it was true then ‘marketing’ would cease to exist; the fact it does indicates that the market is very lead by what we are told we need, and what better illustration of that is what the pros are using.

I don’t need 11 gears but I want it because that’s ‘state of the art’

How did his LEFT knee get mangled by a disc rotor?