Ding doing: The toff's career is dead

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  • Ding doing: The toff's career is dead
  • Flag waving is a symbolic gesture used to justify actions that benefit a particular group or idea. Often that idea is detrimental to a different group or idea. Human beings love “us and them” thinking – in groups and out groups.
    It’s a cognitive shortcut based on emotion instead of logic and is used to manipulate based on preconceived prejudices and biases.

    That’s when it is done at high, conscious level – i.e. by political parties.

    When it is repeated by some mouth breathing **** it just shows they have been influenced.

    Here’s a terrifying thought. Half of all the people in this country have an IQ under 100.

    piemonster
    Member

    Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

    To be honest, I don’t really want the flag back to wave. All just seems a lot of culturally divisive bollocks that serves little more than giving the human ego a bit of identity. And the ruling classes a manageable block to control.

    Human first, everything else a distant second.

    b r
    Member

    The 54-year-old entered Parliament as MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 The daughter of a former assistant secretary general of the United Nations, she was born in Surrey and was called to the bar in 1983.

    Hmm, she reckoned she grew up on a council estate:

    Mrs Thornberry told The Telegraph: ”My point is that it’s a remarkable image of a house completely covered in flags. I grew up on a council estate and I have never seen a house completely covered in flags before. There’s three of them.“

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rochester-byelection-labour-mp-emily-thornberry-apologises-for-white-transit-van-and-england-flags-tweet-9874088.html

    Old Labour, as in very middle-class it seems:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Thornberry

    And another Lawyer – so one of BLair’s.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

    [video]http://youtu.be/KKoS5X4SMrY[/video]

    gobuchul
    Member

    And another Lawyer – so one of BLair’s.

    What?

    Over half of the Conservative MP’s are qualified as lawyers and something like 10% of Labour MP’s are.

    bencooper
    Member

    So it turns out the owner of the flag house isn’t a Nigerian civil rights lawyer.

    Who’d have thought it?

    Premier Icon williamnot
    Member

    someone who wants to kick immigrants out of the country gets elected whilst someone tweets a picture and loses their job. What a country

    So it turns out the owner of the flag house isn’t a Nigerian civil rights lawyer.

    No but judging by his tribal tattoos and mixed martial arts tee shirt it’s clear that he embraces other cultures.

    Klunk
    Member

    I bet he reads the sun and hates cyclists. what a ****.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Or you cannot differentiate

    its not me struggling to differentiate between what the flag tends to represent and all english people being racist.

    The problem is why do people let them take over/hijack the flag? Why not take the flag back and let them create one of their own?

    This is what needs to happen until it does many [ possibly most??] will assume it means you are a racist. Its a shame clearly but it is up to the english to reclaim it.

    So the [English] flag is racist but your [Union] flag is not?

    I said that when i see the flag flying i think racists live here. A flag is not inherently racist its a flag. Are you chewkw in disguise? AGAIN what you need to do is show me the perception – ernie used a picture to help – is wrong. I am not comfortable with it but it is not up to me to reclaim your flag from the racists.

    Your opinion speaks volumes more about your small mindedness than it does about those you show prejudice against.

    Forgive me for disliking racists 😕 Ernie again used a picture to help you undertsand how sometime its ok to prejudge folk. Obviously any generalisation may be wrong, that fella may be a gay christian social worker for all we know but if i had to guess i would go for no …you? Understand the point being made will you. Just shouting prejudice is a bit daft you need to explain how my perception is a [ generally] false one.

    Now Whelan is suddenly anti-Jewish for giving him a chance?

    Avail yourself of the facts will you. He is anti semite for saying they are more money grabbing than anyone else. How would you describe that statement?

    aracer well played there with that follow up 😀

    I think it sums up the problem with the way politics works that the unstated point she was making turns out to be true, yet she has to step down from her position.

    allthepies
    Member

    This was toxic stuff for the Labour party, Ed had to boot her out pronto.

    lemonysam
    Member

    I think it sums up the problem with the way politics works that the unstated point she was making turns out to be true, yet she has to step down from her position.

    If I took to our work twitter feed to broadcast that I think one of our customers is an arse I’d be disciplined, whether or not they’re an arse is irrelevant, it’s an issue of respecting your “customers”.

    bencooper
    Member

    If I took to our work twitter feed to broadcast that I think one of our customers is an arse I’d be disciplined, whether or not they’re an arse is irrelevant, it’s an issue of respecting your “customers”.

    Do you think he would ever have been one of her “customers”?

    Hmm. So now the Labour Party has to respect aggressive, small minded, racists in order to get elected? Kinda makes my point.

    lemonysam
    Member

    Do you think he would ever have been one of her “customers”?

    I don’t know – I’ve known plenty of unpleasant labour voters – but it doesn’t matter, I’d still be bollocked for it. Possibly “prospective customers” is a better term though.

    lemonysam
    Member

    Hmm. So now the Labour Party has to respect aggressive, small minded, racists in order to get elected? Kinda makes my point.

    You can argue against someone’s views whilst still treating them with respect.

    I bet he reads the sun and hates cyclists. what a ****.

    I imagine that reading the Sun is probably too challenging for him, if he did he might have accidentally discovered that there was a very high profile by-election going on in his home town, instead of telling the Daily Telegraph that he “had no idea there was a by-election in Rochester and Strood that evening”.

    If he does get the Sun then I suspect it would be to look at the pictures.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Did she join the Labour Party by mistake?

    I think that when I look at most of the labour front bench. The parties are now so indistinguishable from each other, the ‘staff’ (with a few notable exceptions) are interchangeable. Parliament is just stuffed with ‘career politicians’ choosing which one they’d like to represent. Its no longer a matter of clearly held beliefs, but a pragmatic career choice about which one of the two is more likely to get them a seat on the gravy train.

    They all went to the same schools, then they all studied the same course at the same university. When they graduate, they just choose red or blue, then disappear into that colour press office/thinktank, and start brown-nosing until they get parachuted into a safe seat somewhere they’ve never heard of, and will have to hold their nose, pin on a false smile, and visit once a year

    And this bloody daft woman hasn’t specifically voiced the attitude of the labour party towards the white working class, more the attitude of the entire Westminster ‘political establishment towards the white working class. Arrogant contempt!

    Her original attempt to assuage the anger was that she was surprised to see a house covered in British flags.

    Ignorant and unpleasant. Ed did well to bounce her out sharpish.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    The London Olympics did wonders for the Union flag… I’ve no idea what can do the same for the George Cross… but ’till it does, it is most definitely used as a signifier that only “people like us” are welcome in the area. Sad but true.

    As for the shadow minister? Not being able to point out racists is political correctness gone mad. Maybe.

    I imagine that reading the Sun is probably too challenging for him, if he did he might have accidentally discovered that there was a very high profile by-election going on in his home town, instead of telling the Daily Telegraph that he “had no idea there was a by-election in Rochester and Strood that evening”.

    If he does get the Sun then I suspect it would be to look at the pictures.

    And it’s a perfect illustration of the difference between even a high-profile by-election and a general election. This chap ignored last night’s vote, but got down the polling station in 2010 and voted conservative.

    Miliband must be in a total rage (if he is capable of that degree of emotion). Tories threw the kitchen sink at this one and got beaten, and the headlines? One of his dozy front-benchers sticking her nose up at the lumpen electorate.

    The London Olympics did wonders for the Union flag… I’ve no idea what can do the same for the George Cross… but ’till it does, it is most definitely used as a signifier that only “people like us” are welcome in the area. Sad but true.

    Or that there was an England football international two days earlier and he hadn’t got round to taking them down yet. The assumption and implication of racism here is the problem, not whether he actually is or not.

    And this bloody daft woman hasn’t specifically voiced the attitude of the labour party towards the white working class, more the attitude of the entire Westminster ‘political establishment towards the white working class

    You think all “white working class” have tatty St George’s flags hanging from their roof gutters ?

    The photo in question provides an example of what you might expect to see in typical UKIP territory. There is no evidence that Emily Thornberry was suggesting it was typical of white working class attitudes.

    Most white working class voters do not have St George’s flags hanging from their roof gutters, get that thought out of your head binners.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    and the headlines?

    And who writes the headlines? They’ll find something to damn Miliband with at every key moment right up to the next General Election. He can’t avoid it. He shouldn’t respond to it.

    They’ll find something to damn Miliband with at every key moment right up to the next General Election.

    Not often they get handed it on a plate like that though.

    On a cheerier note, how did the LibDem vote hold up? 🙂

    ninfan
    Member

    The photo in question provides an example of what you might expect to see in typical UKIP territory.

    Really? I’ve seen exactly the same in numerous very safe Labour seats!

    There is no evidence that Emily Thornberry was suggesting it was typical of white working class attitudes.

    Begs the question why she felt the need to resign over it if she had done nothing wrong?

    I liked Nick Robinsons take on it on R4 – Dave was driving a car into a brick wall at 100mph, and at the very last moment Labour managed to thow themselves in front of him 🙂

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    I don’t get this, at all.

    She posts a picture of a house in her constituency, with an comment of ‘here’s a house in my constituency.’ People infer that she’s being elitist, and she steps down as a result. If she’s that limp perhaps MPing isn’t for her.

    Meanwhile the word on the street is, the implication that Mr Ware isn’t a caviare and champagne sort of bloke turns out to be bang on the money. Film at 11.

    Bizarre.

    I’ll hand this one over to Gordon Brown…

    She’s just a sort of bigoted woman that said she used to be Labour

    allthepies
    Member

    Cougar wrote:

    with an comment of ‘here’s a house in my constituency.’

    It wasn’t her constituency, she was forced to slum it down there for the day.

    ads678
    Member

    I would just like to say that as a proud English man and (very) anti-racist, i am offended by the fact that people would hold me in the same regard as those who degrade our flag with racism.

    I’m not sure who offends me more though, those who tar me with the same brush or those that bring the down with their extreme views. It all seem pretty bigoted to me!

    I bet there’s no end of racist Scots out there but if you saw one waving a flag you wouldn’t think, “oh there’s a racist Scotsman”, you’d just think “oh there’s a Scotsman”.

    I do not fly a flag over my house or hang one out of the window.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Most white working class voters do not have St George’s flags hanging from their roof gutters, get that thought out of your head binners.

    ernie – not really the point, is it?

    The problem isn’t specifically about people with flags outside their house. Its just that this whole thing is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class. Its exactly the same attitude that Gordon Brown expressed about ‘that bigoted woman’. She wasn’t bigoted. She was expressing a legitimate concern. But the labour party is now so far removed from its core vote, that its legitimate concerns are just airily dismissed.

    Its condescending, patronising and arrogant! And those 3 words sum up Westminster, including most of the labour front bench

    Looks like she dug her own hole

    Junkyard
    Member

    The assumption and implication of racism here is the problem, not whether he actually is or not.

    No. The problem is racist have taken ownership of your flag so that when it is seen that is what many people think/suspect/fear. That fella, with all respect, is hardly braking the mould on what you expect to see when you see a flag flying outside someone house.

    You can argue against someone’s views whilst still treating them with respect.

    really depends on their views racists, homophobes nazis etc do not require nor earn respect IMHO.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    On a cheerier note, how did the LibDem vote hold up?

    LibDem vote almost zero.

    Is that because they are “in bed” with the Tories, or because they’re not seeking to ape the closed borders anti immigrant politics of the other parties? Or somehow both? All they can do now is stick to their policies and prepare for irrelevance. It’s either that or try and occupy the same policy ground as the three bigger parties. Sorry, that should be three “biggest” parties now that LibDems are fifth, and could even be sixth soon the way things are going in Scotland.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Its just that that is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class

    Its contemptuous of a certain type of voter. They are still not typical working class and its BS to suggest they are and that disliking them is to dislike the entire working class.

    Westminster may be out of touch but that is some over rich interpretation – Hey FLASHY want to comment on UKIP giving your lot another kicking?- of one picture to say it pours scorn on the entire working class

    …..and she steps down as a result. If she’s that limp perhaps MPing isn’t for her.

    I doubt the decision was hers, I suspect the Ed Miliband made the decision for her.

    New Labour is happy to ignore traditional Labour voters which they feel will have no option but to vote for them, but likes to court Tory voting white van drivers who hang English flags from their guttering.

    footflaps
    Member

    Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

    +1

    No. The problem is racist have taken ownership of your flag so that when it is seen that is what many people think/suspect/fear. That fella, with all respect, is hardly braking the mould on what you expect to see when you see a flag flying outside someone house.

    It’s not really my flag any more. I wouldn’t use it for the reasons you state. You’re right, he’s not exactly breaking the mould. But the issue for Thornberry is that tweeting the assumption is crass political suicide, regardless of how accurate it later turns out to be.

    Plenty of MPs of all persuasions manage to keep schtum about their feelings for the electorate they represent. It’s bad for business otherwise.

    The problem isn’t specifically about people with flags outside their house. Its just that this whole thing is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class. Its exactly the same attitude that Gordon Brown expressed about ‘that bigoted woman’. She wasn’t bigoted. She was expressing a legitimate concern. But the labour party is now so far removed from its core vote, that its legitimate concerns are just airily dismissed.

    I’m no supporter of New Labour binners, and I agree with your general point, but if you knew about Emily Thornberry you would know that not only has she got one of the most listenable voices in British politics but she also agrees with your point.

    Here she is making that point only last month :

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Tqo9JUj3w[/video]

    Emily Thornberry is a New Labour and EU supporter, I wouldn’t vote for her, but don’t accuse her of things which she isn’t guilty of.

    She’s apolitician, her job is to represent the electorate and promote the views of her party – not point and laugh at those that don’t share them, however unpleasant they may turn out be.

    You certainly don’t hand your opposition the opportunity to characterise you as being diametrically opposed and aloof to (a depiction of) your core traditional vote. She’s an asshat.

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