Surely they make it easy for the MOT tester to keep the engine running. Far easier than, say, hooking up a computer/test rig to the car ECU and doing the job that way.

Start stop won’t stop the engine with a door open, so problem solved.

I can quite believe that micro particle pollution from Diesel engines is a health concern in the centre of big cities.

I’m somewhat less convinced that it is an issue for the nation as a whole though

Start stop won’t stop the engine with a door open, so problem solved.

Ah, I didn’t know that. In which case, ban ’em…!

🙂

Start stop won’t stop the engine with a door open, so problem solved.

Not sure if its a legal requirement, but a lot won’t even allow the engine to stop if the drivers seat belt is undone.

I can quite believe that micro particle pollution from Diesel engines is a health concern in the centre of big cities.

I’m somewhat less convinced that it is an issue for the nation as a whole though

This, and if you take a holistic view of UK emissions as a percentage of the world total as a measure to reduce pollution it’s not going to achieve much. Reducing emissions is putting a sticking plaster on the problem because there are more vehicles on the road. People have to make fewer journeys by car and use an alternative.

What about those who remove/blank the DPF and EGR valves on diesel engines? – how will we deal with those idiots?, on one of the VW forums i’m a member of, there is often a thread regarding the removal of the DPF as they’re often problematic and bloody expensive to replace, similar with the EGR valve and Catalytic convertor’s – i did once post up a reply stating the bloody obvious regarding the increasing number of deaths due to particulates but was pretty much hounded off the forum.

FWIW i recently bought a VW Caddy 1.6tdi, i only use it for journeys of 10miles or more and seeing as i stay in rural galloway on the coastline i have never experienced pollution, a few weeks ago i did have to go to glasgow for a hospital appointment and on walking round the centre of town i could feel the air catching on my throat and my snot was black after a few hours…bloody horrible and damn unfortunate for those poor sods who live in a city/built up area.

I can quite believe that micro particle pollution from Diesel engines is a health concern in the centre of big cities.

I’m somewhat less convinced that it is an issue for the nation as a whole though

I know you have a reputation for stupidity to uphold but do you really think cities are the only place with busy roads?

Got any figures for that? I suspect the car manufacturers have thought of this already.

Re stop/start – I bet they have worked out how juch extra £££ they will make from replacement batteries amd starter motors.

I ALWAYS trun it off on rented cars, I once refused to take a Fiat 500 as guy said the stop/start had to be turned off each time you drove the car. The stop/start doesn’t kick in if you keep your foot on the clutch

My parents had a Polo from the 1980’s with the system (SSA it was called), hated it from then. It had a switch to turn it off.

….

Anyway onto OPs post, banning diesels from Cities is coming. In Paris now we have a small sticker denoting “pollution bands” no doubt next time there is a problem diesels will be banned. Currently they just ban cars by registration odd/even on alternative days.

You can’t double the price of diesel or do GPS logging as thats a massive tax on people who live in the countryside and probably earn less. Personally I would add 10-20% extra tax on new diesel cars and redice tax on Hybrids.

I bet they have worked out how juch extra £££ they will make from replacement batteries amd starter motors.

I bet they haven’t since hardly anyone buys a battery from the manufacturer.

The reason they’ve done this is because of the EU wide 120g/km CO2 average limit initiative. That’s right, the EU looking after the environment. What an awful institution.

Cheaper and easier to ban planes.

molgrips – Member
I bet they haven’t since hardly anyone buys a battery from the manufacturer.

Exactly Molly, last 3 cars have had stop/start tech and it just works fine.
TBH I like the silence in the car apart from the music I want to listen to if I’m stuck in traffic.

I would much prefer to be on my bike but that isn’t always possible.

And ban shipping, most run on diesel and belch thier way around the world.

I ALWAYS trun it off on rented cars

Why ? ❓

I definitely think Diesel emissions are getting worse. On the school run, the unmistakable smell walking along the pavement from the surrounding roads on a cold, still day really is pretty terrible. I hate it, and both my sons comment on it too when it’s bad. Not helped by the ****tards who sit for ten minutes with their engines running (a different thread, I’m sure)…

As much as I really hate diesel, I still find myself thinking my next car might be one though. I do about 12k miles per year: 6k on a school run/commute and 6k up and down the M1 Newcastle-Surrey. Currently in a petrol, but get about 30mpg on the motorway, and can’t help but think the diesel equivalent would be at 50mpg-ish. Maybe something like a 330e would be a good compromise…

I ALWAYS trun it off on rented cars, I once refused to take a Fiat 500 as guy said the stop/start had to be turned off each time you drove the car.

😕

Why +1, it’s not even your car so even the tenuous wear argument doesn’t hold.
Surely as a cyclist you know how abhorrent it is to filter down a line of stinking diesels?
I’ve actually recently noticed quite how much difference it makes to breathe the clear air when I’m stood behind a car with stop start

Just as an aside, the kids in the US love Diesels. Have trawl on Youtube for “Rolling Coal” 😥

It appears those are already banned from city centres.

and those

Currently in a petrol, but get about 30mpg on the motorway, and can’t help but think the diesel equivalent would be at 50mpg-ish

What petrol? A modern eco petrol should be able to get 50mpg on the motorway. A petrol hybrid would easily beat that. But if you can afford it, something like a Golf GTE might be better than a BMW, having a smaller petrol engine.

It appears those are already banned from city centres.

I missed the bit where pollution stays within a few feet of its source. My bad. 😥

My current car is a diesel, i like Diesel engines, they produce good torque which makes them feel quite pokey.
I also hardly ever drive in town, so theoretically at least my engine should be running quite efficiently most of the time.
But having said all that, my next one wont be diesel, it will be an ecoboost type petrol, or a hybrid, and the decision for this is purely what comes out of the exhaust.
If an electric car works and is affordable by then, electric is the way I will go.

In terms of concentrated pollution it does – it’s concentrated pollution from lots of vehicles in a small space which is the biggest issue here. I’m not quite sure what happens to pollution from planes and ships in the long term when dispersed in the atmosphere, but I think it’s safe to say that neither are a major contributor to pollution at ground level on land (in general, let alone in cities).

Given plenty of comments about the contrast of pollution between cities and countryside, what is it that makes you think pollution from planes is likely to be attracted to cities?

what is it that makes you think pollution from planes is likely to be attracted to cities?

Not really sure where I said that, but go on. I’m sure you won’t give up until you’ve either started an argument or feel that you’ve somehow won something.

According to the post on the previous page, an ecoboost petrol may not be much better than an SCR diesel in terms of NOx.

As always, the question is am I causing more harm with my “older” diesel car which sits on my drive most of the time, I rarely do a trip of less than 3 miles and very rarely spend my time sitting in congestion in a city? Compared to somebody with a wonderful modern car who does lots of short trips in congestion? Decreasing emissions certainly helps, but it doesn’t ultimately fix this problem (or any of the other multitude of problems with transport, which could be vastly improved with modal shifts).

To be fair to ninfan, he actually posts sensible comments on most threads (I sometimes wonder if he lends the login to somebody else for political ones). No, cities aren’t the only place with busy roads, but it’s where by far the vast majority of busy congested roads are found – which are the ones generating most of the pollution problems. Outside of cities, roads might be busy, they might even be congested (though that’s much rarer), but they are also separated from other roads and surrounded by open land, so the pollution is dispersed.

BTW regarding stop/start – is this pretty much a standard thing now? I’ve never had it in any car I’ve driven, though my car is 9 years old and it’s almost that long since I last got brand new hire cars regularly, so I’ve not driven anything much newer.

OK then – so how much do you think emissions from planes contribute to pollution in cities?

OK then – so how much do you think emissions from planes contribute to pollution in cities?

Yes, I do.

Good answer to a question asking “how much” 😆

Though I’ll roll with the answer you gave – do you also think planes are contributing to pollution in the countryside?

Good answer to a question asking “how much”

I am, yes.

Well stop farting then

I live in west London. I also own a modern Euro 6 diesel.
During the week I cycle to work, and obviously at the weekend 😉
The biggest issue where I live is in the hundreds of tonnes of jet fuel and part burned jet fuel falling out of the sky from the hundreds of planes landing at Heathrow every day. Everything is coated in a layer of oily black grime. And the alternative truths being put out by the promoters of Heathrow expansion are clearly ludicrous based on emissions reductions due to everyone in the vicinity driving electric cars by the time the 3rd runway is brought into service.
I will be driving to Bath tomorrow morning for an 8am meeting, hopefully the car will run efficiently, I’ve been getting 60mpg+ on long journeys….. And I’ll be able to listen to Radio 4, and maybe the farming programme.

aracer – Member

Well stop farting then
Sorry, I wasn’t listeninng to your babbling, what was the question?

Tough one, moral argument.

Cities aside for a second, I think I’ll stick to a small Diesel engined 60+mpg car, unless of course you all decide to stop buying salads from Spain, fruit from Israel, coffee from South America and getting all that shipped over here in belching container ships.

I think, that’s probably it.

The whataboutery is strong in this thread.

Much easier to do like the UK gov and classify one of the busiest road in the UK as a rural road so it doesnt have to be included in official stats .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39152942

The gov have also got an “electric vehicle office”, ULEV or OLEV or something.

If you want an electric car/van/motorbike they’ll give you a grant for it.

Want an electric bike? “No chance sonny, that’s not real transport. *Cough cough* smokey out today isn’t it. Anyway, who else wants cash to buy a new car?”

and getting all that shipped over here in belching container ships.

I’m not sure what the nox/particulate levels are like (quite bad per litre of fuel burnt I’d guess), but the fuel economy is the equivalent of 1000mpg per tonne of cargo, so not the most pressing form of air pollution (especially considering people don’t tend to live on the sea).

We need to spend some decent money on cycle facilities, combined with stricter emissions regulations in the future – perhaps combined with increased restrictions on the use of cars etc. in cities.

This is NOT just a city problem.

I live 50 miles from the nearest city but there are 6 AQMA’s within 10 miles my house and if the councils had any interest in measuring pollution correctly there would twice as many.

Including the nice leafy road that runs past our school which in recent years has turned into a river of poison.

Car pollution is everyones problem.

wilburt – Member

Car pollution is everyone’s problem.

Are you new here? I think you’ll find it’s everyone else’s problem. 😉

On bikebuoys whataboutery: usual standard I’m afraid.

Ships are governed by MARPOL and the various annexes. Annex 6 covers air pollution which, given the size of a ship, is actually pretty easy to deal with. For sulphur you just stop burning shite and for nitrogen you do crazy things like (honestly, wait for it) water injection. You know, that thing diesel tuners have been doing for literally years as, aside from the performance benefits from adding methylene, the atomised water cools the cylinder and significantly reduces the production of NOx’s. Aside from that ships can install scrubber towers that remove pollutants from the exhaust stack either as a liquid mix or inert gas to be removed. Add in the fact that modern marine engines generally run at a set speed and don’t have stupid antiquated things like camshafts to make timing and advance issues a problem then you get a pretty efficient block.

But then they are diesls, so all diesels must be bad.