Watched the DH for the first time over the weekend live on RBTV on the pc and thought it was really good to watch, fast flowing, with constant action good commentary from Rob Warner, however a couple of things seemed strange.

The woods section seemed almost impassable for the women earlier in the day and the roots where so big I thought a leg or arm was going to go under one or two and the momentum was going to pull it our of the socket, then when the men came along later the ruts were big but terrain was better, i know it dried out but was anything changed? Did the route get adjusted?

I never heard Rob Warner or the other guy talk about the bike brands. Lots of talk about wheel size but not much about brands. I was surprised the rider names came up on the screen and I still didn’t see what all the riders were on. For a logo rich sport I keep on looking at the bikes after the finish like to see what was each rider using. Is this normal to exclude the bike detail from the classification list or is it a case of, I should know?

I also noticed that most bikes appeared to be on Fox shocks but lots of forums and reviews seem to talk about Rockshox pike, lyric, Yari, do Fox have a monopoly on DH type shocks, but not the retail trail market or again is it bad marketing on their part, that fox is a good performer but doesn’t promote in the same way to the retail market as Rockshox?

Curious to hear what others think as i will definitely watch again…

Rockshox have definitely dropped back in terms of sponsoring the most visible of the offroad cycle sports and I have no idea why – they’re equally as capable of putting money (and product) into the sport but they appear to either be shying away from it or Fox have simply got a bigger cheque book. Very few of these riders/teams will pay for their kit and will go with whoever pays for it. Only the privateers and the very best can afford to pick and choose their equipment and even then some will just go with the money.

Brands wise? Well THE big news of 2017 is 29ers so the marginal difference in bike design falls way behind in the worth talking about stakes.

No idea about classification – I always thought they had the team name in but who knows these days.

Agree that Warner is doing a great job _ I commented as much myself at the time. It’s quite a revelation being able to watch it on TV these days! ;o)

The Warner / Claudio combo is on point and really entertaining.
Reminds me of Murray Walker in F1, kept you engaged in the sport and what was going on.

The bikes themselves will not be production models. The only ones that maybe will be the privateers. But then they will only be similar to current models in that they have two wheels and round black things at each end.

Route wasn’t adjusted, it dried a little during the day, also due to their extra strength the male racers can make certain things look easier.

Surprisingly for a hobby where we utterly obsess about what bike to buy, which is better and why – brands are rarely discussed on DH coverage over and above which teams riders are on, it’s very rare for them to claim there’s an advantage to having one over another – 29er DH bikes on the other hand are 2 races old in WC DH and it’s this year’s big story and will probably have a big impact on the ‘industry’.

I didn’t notice the a big disparity between fox and RS, maybe there is, or maybe it’s just the gold fox are more obvious than the black RS?

Bruni was on Ohlins, and they looked to be working extremely well in the practice footage. His race run didn’t quite go to plan though.

I was surprised the rider names came up on the screen and I still didn’t see what all the riders were on. For a logo rich sport I keep on looking at the bikes after the finish like to see what was each rider using. Is this normal to exclude the bike detail from the classification list or is it a case of, I should know?

I can’t think of any sports where they do this (I gave it about 30sec thought tho), so why would this be any different?. Maybe motorsport, but even then it’s usually the team name on the screen rather than specifically what they’re in / on, just so happens that often the team name is what they’re in / on. I’d probably agree tho, that in World Cup they are racing for their team not their country, so maybe team name should be on the screen rather than riders nationality.

Rob talked a lot about 29ers whereas Claudio keeps his mouth shut since he works for the Scott DH team which probably precludes him from talking about bike design too much. It’s a shame, since Rob doesn’t seem to have as much technical knowledge and I think some insight into the various bikes would be nice

Good coverage, although even the commentators were saying that they didn’t have any pictures of the crux section in the woods where most time was lost.

All well and good warner giving it “He’s lost time in the woods” to every rider but it would have been nice to have a camera on the section that had been causing problems throughout practice, qualifying and the race runs….

but it would have been nice to have a camera on the section that had been causing problems

There was a comment about them downing tools because the midges were so bad. Might have been tongue in cheek but wouldn’t be surprised if it was fact.

I might be wrong, but there was a camera on that section, The woods was the TV coverage bit where they were mostly all seen struggling (bar a select few) and it was on TV. I thought what they were saying was the entry to the woods was the crux, tv footage was only just below that section in the woods. The woods might be 200 yds long, the TV bit might only have captured 50yds, but the woods were included on the coverage and the footage gave a feel for how it might influence the outcome, don’t know what your issue is? they can’t cover every inch.

I might be wrong, but there was a camera on that section, The woods was the TV coverage bit where they were mostly all seen struggling (bar a select few) and it was on TV. I thought what they were saying was the entry to the woods was the crux,

It was the bit above the wooden ramp that got most people from the interviews.
Team names are maybe something and they were getting mentioned but mostly it’s assumed most people know or don’t care.
On forks at that level it’s the RS Boxxer that is the challenger to the Fox 40, given Fox did the 49 29’r fork and RS have not they are a little behind the 2017 curve.
If you want the background have a look at VitalMTB, Pinkbike (full on details) and STW for the non Dh version of the tech and what’s going on.

Vital’s slideshows are probably the most informal and insightful as Sven seems to just get them talking.

Also some of the team vids like the Syndicate one give you a lot of the back story as to whats going on etc. and will have some interesting rider/team views after the event.

+1 for Vitals slideshows, seems old school but works well.

RB TV footage was a bit patchy and lacked adequate camera coverage. Not to mention the timing glitches and cameras out of position made it feel a bit amateur, seemed worse than last years coverage. But yeah Rob and Claudio make a decent fist of it.

This GMBN vid shows the ugly woods section and why it caught so many out. Hucking into axle deep mud is never going to end well 😯

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us1WcqcwcWc[/video]

Something didn’t sit right with me about peaty holding up minnars santa cruz in front of the camera, on top of the pile up at the end of his run. It was almost like he’d been elbowed by a santa cruz exec to leap into action and get the bike exposure.

Think you have missed how those guys roll

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/running-the-santa-cruz-syndicate-kathy-sessler-interview-2017.html
Don’t even know if there was a SC Exec there, looked more like he was in there later than the 13 odd mates of Greg who had come up from South Africa for the party and pulled the bike out of the way.
Only point might have been shoving 2 fingers up to the 29r haters out there.

Out of all the right cap/drink bottle/sponsored face wipe riders these guys seem well off the pace in a good way.

I just detest such blatant commercialism, (BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS) but what the hey, that’s the industry I guess.

I’m still looking for that in there, the guy just won the race for the 7th time, 20th WC win, GOAT mens racer and he celebrated with his mates.
This is more the Syndicate style

The woods section seemed almost impassable for the women earlier in the day and the roots where so big I thought a leg or arm was going to go under one or two and the momentum was going to pull it our of the socket, then when the men came along later the ruts were big but terrain was better, i know it dried out but was anything changed? Did the route get adjusted?

Watched a lot of the practice and the women’s race from that section last year when it was new. Thankfully the weather was glorious so the soil held firm but even then the roots were tricky. A lot of the riders I spoke to during practice said it would be lethal if it had been raining. It’s also not that steep so carrying momentum is key, pretty impossible in gloopy mud as Manon realised!

As for the camera angles? They picked the best spot for a single camera. What they need is more angles and slicker live editing. You only realise this when walking the track.

chestercopperpot – thanks for the video that exactly what i was hoping for.

Perhaps i have watched too much motorpsort where the teams/ constructor and engine package is always mention whether its MotoGP, WEC, F1 or WRC. I do like to know even if its a prototype, and why is this evolution better than the last etc. Maybe after the womens runs someone could have gone to the section to delve a little more closely into the technical bit of the woods, why it was catching them out etc (see above). The teams seem to be testing with telemetry but not much insight into this i found.

Not sure as i am a new to watching it, but would they all be using the same gear ratios? would this play a part in speed on the road section, do they all have the same travel and how will this impact certain sections of the track like the rock garden or woods. All these things could have been mentioned during the runs a little. in the same way Chris boardman covers indoor and road riding. Also why did the guy break his derailleur/or other at the start line? could this have been discussed with someone that catches up with them after the finish line? it was a little patchy with plenty of guessing, but great to watch none the less…

The teams seem to be testing with telemetry but not much insight into this i found.

That won’t be going public

Not sure as i am a new to watching it, but would they all be using the same gear ratios? would this play a part in speed on the road section,

Nope it will be rider and track preference, speed on the motorway is mostly maintaining and some hard cranking

do they all have the same travel and how will this impact certain sections of the track like the rock garden or woods.

Mostly 200mm each end though SC is about 210(?) and some others above the system and setup will again be rider pref and designed to be good for what the rider wants

Also why did the guy break his derailleur/or other at the start line? could this have been discussed with someone that catches up with them after the finish line?

Think he was using a blet drive internal gearbox that caught most people out – he isn’t a regular top 20 rider I think, if you had a crap run most people don’t hang around to go through why it was bad.

it was a little patchy with plenty of guessing, but great to watch none the less…

Other tracks/races have had better coverage.
As for tech talk knock yourself out
https://www.pinkbike.com/
http://www.vitalmtb.com/

thanks for the info, i’m like a sponge for info at the moment you can tell i’m new 😀

Be careful not to analyse the fun out of the event. Remember when Formula 1 became boring about 30 years ago?

Be careful not to analyse the fun out of the event.

Amen.

There’s endless tech geekery out there for those who want it. I just want to see fast riders riding at the limits and racing to the line. Couldn’t give a monkeys what blummin gear ratio they’re on 😀

There has to be tech chat in the likes of F1, to keep it interesting (relatively) otherwise it’s rather a dull procession.

DH has so much more to it, the brands/tech is a little less important.

I don’t think Peaty holding up the bike was meant as some kind of crude brand marketing shit, more so like a trophy held aloft in the heat of what was a fantastic win for Minaar.

I watched the #CathroVision bit on youtube which showed the woods section quite well. I guess it depends what ticks the boxes for you – most of the sections I look it at and think ‘that would be awesome fun to ride that’ but I couldn’t see the appeal of the woods section. The thing I find most impressive about the pros is the flow they develop over stuff, those woods it didn’t look like there was any flow to be found, just an actual obstacle rather than a feature as it were.

It’s been referenced above but I found it odd that, Rob Warner didn’t seem to be aware that ‘gearbox’ bikes existed and Claudio seemed unaware that some teams are using them and belt drives. Do they not spend much time ‘on the scene’? Just get flown in to stand in front of a mountain and then commentate on the redbull TV feed?

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William,11075/Benoit-Coulanges-Nicolai-ION-20-Gearbox,115613/sspomer,2?mobile=false

http://www.the-sports.org/mountain-bike-downhill-uci-ranking-s25-c1335-l0.html
He is ranked 35 in the world, think it was just him being on the ION at that level and he isn’t making the top 20 where most of the action is these days. Not really sure they need a detailed breakdown over every bike spec up there. Nobody said they didn’t exist just there are very few and that wasn’t a great ad 😉 the start looked like dropped chain/snapped so it’s a logical conclusion.

Do they not spend much time ‘on the scene’? Just get flown in to stand in front of a mountain and then commentate on the redbull TV feed?

Claudio Scott Velo Solutions Team Manager – Owner Velo Solutions? Hands on pump track builder and rider.
Warner – Commencal Sponsored rider, knocking around a lot with people on bikes
Find them both on instagram to see what they are up to

That GMBN vid shows how stupid that woods section was. There also needs to be some thought to rider safety and duty of care. Hard is fair enough and crashes will always happen, but a section that is essentially unridable for the majority, then questions need to be asked.

Mike, yeah, sorry, I didn’t phrase any of that very well. I’m aware of the bikes and who Rob and Claudio are. Which is why I just found their comments quite odd. I’m a casual fan / viewer and clocked straight away that that’s one of them thar funny gearbox things. May be that is just a reflection of my tech interest though and it doesn’t register too high with either of them.

bigblackshed – Member

The bikes themselves will not be production models. The only ones that maybe will be the privateers. But then they will only be similar to current models in that they have two wheels and round black things at each end.

How true is that? I thought that aside from the recent 29’er bodges the bikes were fairly stock – some custom shock hardware maybe and maybe the odd custom linkage if a rider prefers a longer rear end etc but mostly the same as a privateer could buy?

I think one of the problems with giving detailed technical info is time… OK Ft William is a long course, and there’s maybe a bit of time to fill, but normally there’s just too much going on to talk about how much travel they have on the front.

They pay Rob the big bucks to shout about shitting a death star, not waffle about gear ratios…

The woods did look horrendous in the GMBN vid I have to say, but unrideable? Not sure.

Anyone here that used to ride or race Rheola will remember Star Wars and how crazy that was. But the top riders made it look easy.

Difficult one. Tracks need to have some technical difficulty but I agree, that does look kin hard. 🙂

but a section that is essentially unridable for the majority, then questions need to be asked.

Yeah if I’m a team manager I think I’d be asking my rider “how come Greg rode it clean all day Sunday (2 practice runs and a race) and you didn’t?” 😆

I think most riders and teams were more sanguine than the arm chair experts on here

but unrideable? Not sure.

Take a look at how the majority of the best riders in the world fared through it. I’ll call it rideable with a massive load of luck and skill – one on their own didn’t get people through it. When you have 30 riders crashing in the same spot (of the 80 best DH riders on the planet) something might be off

I think most riders and teams were more sanguine than the arm chair experts on here

Have a listen to the vital slideshow – Greg describes being almost thrown out of the track and being bucked on the bit not on RBTV

WRT to lack of tech chat,the bike you ride makes much less difference in DH than the car you drive does in F1.

Stick minaar on a trek and he’d still have destroyed everyone, stick Alonso in a McLaren…

Also, very few people care about gear ratios etc when watching a DH race, watch the subtle line choice differences instead. All about the skill, enjoy it live and geek out later!

As for the course chat, it’s a world cup, it’s supposed to be difficult.

I would like a bit more analysis from more camera angles.

And I’d like to see more of the technical sections.

Basically, more cameras.

Me too, but I accept that I get to watch the top rung of our sport for absolutely no money changing hands. Which is unusual nowadays.

Oh money changes hands, just not in the usual way. £1 a can for Redbull gives a profit of almost £1 a can. I’m more than happy to buy a few cans now and then to water down some vodka if it means they do awesome stuff like this to advertise at me 🙂

Oh money changes hands, just not in the usual way. £1 a can for Redbull gives a profit of almost £1 a can.

Red Bull is a sports company and broadcaster that sells drinks now, not the other way around