Hello,

I’m planning to get some quite aero wheels. Just for normal riding, not racing. I like the idea of getting a bit of extra speed for free, and I think they look cool too. I don’t want to find that I rarely use them because they just too susceptible to crosswinds though. I’ve never ridden deep rims.

I’m quite happy to get some shallow spare wheels for seriously windy days, but mostly I pick and choose when to ride, and if the Met Office says that it’s going to be 20 mph winds then I’ll tend to leave it until the day after, anyway.

I’m looking at anywhere from ~40 mm to ~60 mm deep, and am curious to know especially how much of a real world difference it makes between ‘old school’ profiles such as the Mavic Cosmic Carbones (52 mm) and e.g. the Reynolds Assault / Strike (40 mm / 62 mm). Is there really much difference between them? Would the Reynolds 62 mm rim be less of a handful than the Mavic 52 mm one, simply because it’s a ‘better’ profile? Is the 40 mm rim a much better option anyway, so that I could ride it almost all of the time without having to think about the wind?

Thanks all.

(Soon I’ll have my new bike sorted and can stop asking silly questions and just go out riding instead!)

404’s are fine here unless it’s very windy.

I hope not, I just put these on:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/JCfZRU]image[/url]

Courtesy of http://www.catswhiskerswheels.co.uk

#weapon 😉

Shocking gear combination for a photograph that one^^^

TBH you’d do better buying a decent stiff wheel like one of the higher end Ksyriums. At the kinds of speeds amateurs ride, an aero wheel will make very little difference and will be alarming whenever you ride past a field gate, etc. as you’ve guessed.

OTOH a good wheel made from high quality steels and alloys will transform the feel of your bike. My son and my cycling buddy both ride 2015 Tarmac SL4s, both with Ultegra 6800 and both on the same Veloflex tyres. The only difference is the wheels, my son’s has entry-level Ksyriums and my buddy’s has Ksyrium SLSs. The difference in the feel and handling of the two bikes is quite remarkable; with the SLSs it feels so much sharper and more responsive. It’s not a manufacturer difference or any other difference; it’s just down to lateral stiffness with the stronger SLS wheels.

Shocking gear combination for a photograph that one^^^

Its the only one my spindly legs can turn the pedals in 😉

global makes a good point. My 50’s up there are for TT’s, I use Kysyrium Elites otherwise. Anyway, I need to scrub the newness off those tyres, see you in a bit. 🙂

I’m 75 kg and have no problem with 50’s on one of my bikes and 42’s on another. Both are used all year round in all conditions.
If it were was blowing at 20mph I wouldn’t bother going our for a ride so I’ve not experienced those conditions with deep wheels.

My 50 mm wheels definitely feel faster even at easy efforts.

This seems to agree.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/cycling-tech/how-much-faster-aero-wheels-video

I had some 80s and they were lethal in heavy crosswinds which are quite common around here. I sold them.

Thanks chaps.

To some extent I interpret globati’s experiences as “crappy flexible wheels are rubbish” rather than “aero is irrelevant”.

I to echo the above, I have 38’s on my road bike which have little impact from cross winds and are lovely to ride with a feint sound when wound up to speed.

On the TT bike I have 82’s which are “interesting” in any breeze. Once wound up to speed however, they sound glorious!

Stability does have a lot to do with speed. An 808 (80mm) can feel a bit of a handful on a windyish day riding to the start of a TT but once up to race speed it becomes a lot more stable. I’d not want to use one as a day to day riding wheel though.

50mm (at least on a 404) tend to work best above 20mph IMO. If most of your riding is in the 20 to 25 mph range then you’ll probably find them nicely stable.

I have 60mm tubs on my Fredsled ™ and don’t notice them being any worse than any other wheel in the wind. That said, I’m not racing in a tight pack or bombing down alps at 100kph so your experience may vary.

40mm on my road bike, they make a cool noise, that’s about it.

A 303 mm rim makes a good all round wheel. I’ve ridden my 450 mm Giants in some very windy conditions and not had any serious problems (at 68 kg). Others have ditched their really deep section 800’s because they are too much of a handful in time trials.

For a single rim solution, I’d go with 303’s. A tight-fitting jersey and some overshoes will give you more aero benefits for a lot less money, though 😉

My nicest wheels for JRA are Dura Ace/Sapim/Mavic CXP33s. They are lightish, very stiff and roll beautifully.

I was thinking this at the weekend.

I was riding for 20-30 miles in a side wind that was enough to occasionally move my non aero front wheel. Aero wheels must surely be slower in that circumstance… let along using an aero frame ?!?!

… or stick to the flat to keep the speed up ??

I’ve ridden in 40mph cross-wind gusts with 50mm deep-section rims and very easy to find yourself 6ft further over if not careful. IME they still take the same effort to get up to speed but don’t require as much effort to keep them there – particularly at 50-60kph plus so only really long descent and fast races in a bunch. Having trashed two carbon tubular rims in two consecutive races due to potholes, I’m not convinced they are good for all-round use and rim-braking performance can be iffy in the wet. Whilst Ksyrium SLs are stiff, they are one of the least aero wheels out there

FunkyDunc, even with a strong sidewind you are still moving forward through the air at the speed you are travelling. Aero wheels will be quicker.

I used to have some 30mm kinlin xr300 rims and swapped to 45/55mm U-shaped rims. The deep wheels are way *easier* to control in blustery conditions than the alu ones.

The modern blunt-nose rims are generally way better than the old v-shape rims. And mostly better than boxy rims with huge fat alu spokes like the Ksyriums.

I had 50 mm Carbonzones for a while. Bike looked cool with them on and they made a nice sound when up to speed but they weren’t any faster than a good alloy for general road riding at the speeds I’m capable of. Only noticeable advantage was that they did tend to pick up speed faster when going downhill at speed. The braking was poor as well especially in the wet even with carbon specific pads. They also reacted to side winds when passing gaps in hedges etc. Now sold and back on my Fulcrum Racing 1s which are superior in every way.

Had a few pairs of deeps and some do get blown about a bit.

Had a set of these RC45’s for a few weeks now. Really impressed with them and no issues with cross winds

Just finished my ride and I can agree with the above – over about 20kmph they somehow feel straighter than normal sections. On my bike – I’m guessing its the force of the wind over the rim – its slowed the steering which is a good thing. But over 40kmph and up to 58kmph earlier they were awesome – a lovely whooshing noise and the bike just straightens and goes, love it.

My 50mm px tubs were a handful and were relegated to cx duties.But my ‘phat’ U shaped 45’s are fine even when it’s blustery.

My 50mm px tubs were a handful

Agree with that, very poor when compared to U shaped 404’s.

Anyone know anything about these:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/token-c50-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/

?

They’re a reasonable width, and look like a pretty modern shape, but I’m aware that looks and performance are not the same thing, especially with regards to aero properties. Haven’t found any reviews of these ones, just older more v shaped ones.

I would have said it depends on where you ride and possibly even how heavy you are.

Out in Mallorca in April and was on a group ride with a lady on a Cervelo C3 (I think it was), so both an aero frame and wheels. Riding back on the coast road between Alcudia and Puerto Pollenca there was a bit of a side wind one day and she was completely unable to control the bike. I have also seen the same with people descending down off the mountains.

Talking with the racers I now, they are of no benefit under about 20 – 22mph.

They might look nice, but I would not have them myself unless you only ride in perfect conditions on perfect roads.

Gray – drop me an email (in my profile) re your wheels.

so both an aero frame and wheels… completely unable to control the bike.

Is really is mostly the front wheel getting pushed about. I’ve raced my aero TT bike with a solid disc wheel in the back in some very windy conditions and it’s fine as long as I don’t run a too deep section front.

Talking with the racers I now, they are of no benefit under about 20 – 22mph.

There is benefit, it just grows rapidly with speed. I reckon about 16 mph is a bit of a tipping point where aero starts to become important (real finger in the air figure, but even if I’m on a climb it’s about the pace where I’ll naturally feel like getting a bit lower.) If you’re a pretty decent rider then (at least on a road bike) around the 20-22 mph average pace mark is where you really start thinking about aero more so than power to go quicker. Though it’s really air speed that’s important and not ground speed.

I can see why they say 20-22 mph though, as for 50mm wheels that seems to be where they start feeling fast and stable (probably to do with being fast enough to bring yaw within some optimal range under average wind conditions.)

A) Got to ask why you really want to go faster if purely for recreational riding.
B) New Dura-ace in the works, possibility of C35’s and C50’s on good discount in the near future.

My light bicycle 45mm wheels are absolutely no issue in sidewinds up to at least 20mph

I am fat, though

I think a lot of it depends on what type of rider you are. If you have a generally nervous disposition then maybe deeper sections are not for you.

I have been blown 3 or 4 feet to the side on standard box sections, your body can act as a pretty big sail sometimes. If you are comfortable on a bike and anticipate breaks in hedges/walls etc then I think they are no worse than box sections (to a point). A very deep wheel on the front can be a handful (px 82 for example) but 50/60 should be fine. Like Blobby says above a solid disc can be ridden in pretty much any conditions if you are confident, I have ridden mine (with a tri spoke on the front) in really strong winds.

i used ENVE 65’s in the flatlands of Lincolnshire for over a year, no issues although I’m 82kg

these things work great but more concentration needed in blustery conditions as expected

GC race bike with deep section wheels feels awesome to ride

Rim shape is more important than rim depth.

Thanks all. Ended up getting a Canyon Aeroad with Reynolds 60mm wheels. First little ride today. Was breezy but no problem at all, so so far so good!

It’s your money and all that, so spend it on what you want to but…

Of all the aero upgrades you can make, wheels are one of the most common but also among the least cost effective. I only know this from toying with the idea of some faster wheels for the track (in the end I know I couldn’t face binning it in a race and getting up to see shards of what was once an expensive wheel across the track).

A skinsuit will make more difference, as will an aero (but group riding friendly) helmet. And both will cost less, and won’t wear out when you break (though they will if you fall off).

Nice wheels look pimp, a skinsuit makes you look like a gimp 🙂

(^^ and I have both 🙂 )

Nice wheels look pimp, a skinsuit makes you look like a gimp

(^^ and I have both )

I suspect there’s a significant element of that in people’s upgrade choices, and I agree (I own neither, purely due to limited finances/ability to happily wreck them).

Definitely my reasoning! I don’t really need to go fast, I just think ‘why not?’. Ordinarily I’d be concerned about the expense, but this is an insurance replacement thing so it’s effectively free. 🙂

Depends on what the alternative wheels are, though. Our touring tandem with intermediate rims and tyres (not stupidly fat) certainly benefits from a switch to the time trial wheels – easton ea50 on the front (nperformance-wise but I wanted something strong) and a disk cover on a conventional narrow-rim rear. Of course a lot of it is the lighter faster tyres too. But spare wheels makes that so much easier…