This is for my shop. We are not on a water meter and they won’t give us one. Water usage is toilet and drinks, so very little.
Can they just decide they’ve been undercharging us and send us a big bill?
Bearing in mind we’ve only been there for 3 months in the last year.
What’s all this 15 mm business?

Can they just decide they’ve been undercharging us and send us a big bill

Looks like it’s in your favour, though? £179.84 credit.

Oh, but they’ve recharged those lines. Yeah, I don’t know.

15mm is the measured average diameter of your poo.

Where are you and who is your bill from?

What is the reason they give for not metering you?

The charges are for sewerage by the looks of it, essentially they have moved you from a calculated charge based on three staff to a RV based charge. Two lines and rates due to charges across two charging years

Is it real or a scam?

Can’t answer most of that but 15mm (1/2 inch) is the size of your supply pipe and directly relates to the cost.  You’d pay more if your supply were 22mm (3/4 inch) or 28mm (1 inch)

First thing I would look at is are they correct about you having been billed wrongly?  If they are then I’d still argue/plea/beg for mercy to reduce what I had to pay for their mistake.

15mm is not the same as 15cm 🙄

15mm is not the same as 15cm

No, millimetres are not the same as cubic metres.  I thought the OP was asking about the 15mm bit?

Edit to add, and I accept I may be reading that wrong.  My commercial water supply is metered.

I can help

You pay in 3 ways.

You pay a small dervive connection charge based on the input pipe diameter

You then payvan amount for water supplied, its nothing like 30p for 1m3 or 1000ltrs

You then pay an amount for sewerage, or dirty water you add to the mains drains. This is alot more, roughly 90p per m3

There are also sometimes rain water charges to be added in if they go into sewerage as well

So all tge poo, rainwater, hand washing, cup washing etc attract a higher rate as it all needs processing nowadays. The days of direct turds to sea have almost gon, unlesss you live near Portsmouth

The sewerage rate is basef on vol x solid loading, bacterial loading x chemical load. Most applies to industrial sites, you will pay on household i imagine

There are 2 levels of ombudsman to try re a meter. Offwat is the big one, water consumer or something isvthe first point of contact. There may be a small cost in getting a metered supply but it can be tiny, if its a simple riser main imside to costly if its gotta be buried in a pavement thats flagstones

On mobile so cant analyse your bills to see if they are where they should be just now

Even if those numbers had a unit next to them it would make it more understandable.
Vague is the word.
Shall don my grumpy pants for Monday’s phone call.

Even if those numbers had a unit next to them it would make it more understandable.
Vague is the word.
Shall don my grumpy pants for Monday’s phone call.

You should use the request for a meter to challenge the RV based charge

Knowing your location (country would do) and supplier would make it easier to help.

15mm diameter of the supply pipe?
cm = cubic metres

We are in Surrey and held to ransom by SES Water.
The girl in the beauty parlour next door is beside herself with worry.
SES will be getting a rather forceful phone call Monday.

You can switch retailer as you are non-household. Probably doesn’t help much in reality as you are so small. But you aren’t stuck with them.

The system works better if you write/email in as they are treated as escalated complaints.

Emphasize that you have requested a water meter in the past. Reject the proposed change as the charges do not reflect use and you have requested a meter.

Point out that they should be offering a meter rather than defaulting to RV. Check there website for commitments to meter.

The key is to argue their position is unreasonable and to keep writing in stating they haven’t provided a substantive response to your points. On letter two you go to your MP, letter 3 the consumer council for water, letter 4 Ofwat.

Don’t escalate to everyone straight away as they will be ignored.

ok
back on laptop so bit easier to decipher

They appear to have charged you for 601 cubic meters of waste water
Or 601,000ltrs of waste water, for 3 employees probably using a maximum of 50ltr a day for tea , washinh hands or flushing toilets.
Given that you have been closed due to lockdown restrictions this volume is ridiculous

yes, they can charge retrospectively but need to show workings or reasons why

quick calc shows 11.7 cu mtr of waste water 3 people x 50ltr a day x 6 days x 13 weeks of trading

Think you need to have a word

Looking at our home bill SES said we produced 43cubic metres of waste and that cost £38.54 plus £31.78 standing charge.
Same company but they provide us with a bill that explains exactly what’s what.
Water usage was 230 litres a day.

I think they’ve refunded the sewerage charges that were ‘assessed’ – two standing charges for each period so I guess one is foul water and one is rainwater – and 3 employees.

Then they have added a new standing charge, £97.38/year for 182 days and £80.12/year for a full year. Then a charge based on rateable value of 601, at £0.7319 for 182 days and £0.7411 for a full year. Those numbers work out.

Why change from assessed to unmeasured? No idea.
Where the rateable value is from (Area 5?). No idea.

Water supply is not on that bill.

As above, challenge it, point out that it’s not representing your actual use and that you’ve asked for a meter. If they don’t change it, make it a formal complaint, and it that doesn’t work go to Ofwat.

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/nonhouseholds/yourwaterbill/

I work in commercial property water bills , so following may not be true. Most of our sites have water meters, that give a value for water usage . Sewerage or waste water is determined by leasable value , and we have a company who challenges this for us as often too high.
Had a big back charge recently , so think 400x yours where a water meter was not in place for some reason . We fixed this and got a new bill for 25% of so by insisting a water meter was fitted , monitored for a few months and then a new bill based on that.
May help

Apparently SES can’t do anything because Thames Water reckon that for the last 16 months we have created 1200 l of waste a day. That’s not including the 9 months we have been closed and the fact that the shop is closed 2 days a week even when we are not locked down.
All of the above info you’ve supplied is once again proving invaluable.

Not that it will make you feel any better – but we’ve just been billed £6500 for an underground water leak we knew nothing about till we got out last bill in Dec. Seems the meter has been merrily spinning away at a rapid rate!

Apparently SES can’t do anything because Thames Water reckon that for the last 16 months we have created 1200 l of waste a day. That’s not including the 9 months we have been closed and the fact that the shop is closed 2 days a week even when we are not locked down.
All of the above info you’ve supplied is once again proving invaluable.

What has happened is that Thames Water (the wholesaler) have decided that the method of charging for you property was wrong and SES are acting as the postman for this change. Ask SES in writing to dispute to the change to the charging. Complain in that letter about the lack of communication prior to the change. Apply again in writing for a meter.

Your new charges are based on RV not consumption. You business will have a business rates assessment which is being translated into a charging band. Check the assessment against you band.

They need to have a really good reason not to meter. Covid isn’t an excuse.

Not that it will make you feel any better – but we’ve just been billed £6500 for an underground water leak we knew nothing about till we got out last bill in Dec. Seems the meter has been merrily spinning away at a rapid rate!

You can reduce that as they should discount the sewerage charges as you haven’t had the service.

How often are they reading the meter?

Is the meter external or internal? Where is the leak, in the building or underground outside the property? Do they have a remote reading device fitted?

If you really want to go for it if it’s underground and the meter in the footpath I could assist with suitable wording that would tie them up in regulatory knots alleging a breach of Condition R in the charges scheme. Should get you off a first leak as it will be too hard to respond to. If not you had some fun.

Zippykona could also go for a Condition R complaint as well. In fact it’s one that should be a national issue as shops on meters have benefited compared to shops on RV. Should be able to get CCW and the MP interested with that one.

Is the meter external or internal? Where is the leak, in the building or underground outside the property? Do they have a remote reading device fitted?

Cheers big_n_daft – my MD is trying to get the bill reduced. Not sure how far he’s got though.

Meter is external in the pavement. Leak was probably 20ft away under our car park. Zero evidence of a leak until we received the water bill! No sinking car park, or bubbling spring – just seeping away underground.

We found out just before Christmas shutdown too, so couldn’t get anyone to repair it till the New Year.

Have mentioned this on the village shopkeepers WhatsApp group. The hairdressers had a bill for £15000!
Have moaned in writing to SES to get the ball rolling.
Paul Scully (small business minister) loves a photo op outside our shop. Maybe he can earn his money.

I would make sure that he is writing in, the retailers are under the cosh on complaints.

Key points, time lag between meter reads
Time lag from read to bill issue
Is the meter accessible, if not complain that you can’t be expected to lift lids in the footpath

If really stressed you can go for a condition R complaint challenging the charges scheme. That may cause them to try and fob you off by not charging

Paul Scully (small business minister) loves a photo op outside our shop. Maybe he can earn his money.

The key point is that small traders on RV charges are paying for services not received and are subsidizing the big water companies. Those on a meter will be on lower charges as they were billed on use and the shops were shut. You have a second issue that they have decided to change your method of charging without consultation

Time to be a “angry people in local newspapers”

Think of it as a Covid tax
Those big motor yachts dont half cost alot to fill up , so your shops have been shut = less random amouts of billing + more people at home = accurate billing
Do not , whatever you do, jump onto Business Stream , they are just as bad.

Do not , whatever you do, jump onto Business Stream , they are just as bad

Nationalised water retailer for Scotland, owned by the people of Scotland, how dare you be so rude!