Debate on cyclists being forced to wear helmets on Radio 2 now

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  • Debate on cyclists being forced to wear helmets on Radio 2 now
  • Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Adjust your blood pressure accordingly

    zokes
    Member

    Or turn off the radio?

    sootyandjim
    Member

    Oh…….my…..God.

    The woman, she just said wearing a helmet doesn’t have any bad points.

    SET CONDITION RED ACROSS THE BOARD, STAND BY FOR MASS DEBATING.

    {Klaxon noise, closing blast doors and people running for shelter}

    desf
    Member

    I’m very attached to my helmet!
    ;-))

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    (wheels up chair)

    seriously – what is wrong with wearing a lid? I’ve always worn one, modern designs are barely noticable…I’ve never had anyone kick me out of a pub for taking one in with me???

    SERIOUSLY, what is wrong with wearing a lid?

    Premier Icon Tiboy
    Subscriber

    So go on, please enlighten me, having commuted for years now, and recently taken up proper MTB’ing, what are the bad points to wearing a helmet, cos none spring to mind to me?!…

    sootyandjim
    Member

    Well apparently. according to a few of the more vocal STW bores, wearing a helmet encourages you to take risks.

    muddy_fox
    Member

    SERIOUSLY, what is wrong with wearing a lid?

    Very little, but that’s not the point is it? It’s all about personal freedom. This is the UK, it’s not yet some Police State where we are forced to do what we don’t want to because the state forces it upon us (even if Gollum Brown is trying to make it that way).

    sootyandjim
    Member

    Perhaps motorcyclists should be able to ride without helmets too.

    MrNutt
    Member

    It’s all about personal freedom. This is the UK

    sorrys but you can’t use these two phrases in the same sentence unless you are a sanctioned member of the Rambler party

    Premier Icon Tiboy
    Subscriber

    oh, and while we’re at it, why don’t we let everyone not wear seatbelts

    donald
    Member

    what are the bad points to wearing a helmet

    There is a school of thought that they can cause a broken neck, in an otherwise unremarkable accident.

    Premier Icon Tiboy
    Subscriber

    donald, fair enough, hadn’t heard that one, but I think in the majority of cases they prevent injury, or am I naive?

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    I’m ignoring any political point i just don’t get the people who don’t want to wear a lid, WHY NOT?

    glenp
    Member

    Perks. Why do you not wear a helmet when walking near a road?

    PeterPoddy
    Member

    SERIOUSLY, what is wrong with wearing a lid?

    Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
    But sometimes I like to pop into town without one. And they can bring in any law they like, I’ll still do it.

    Premier Icon Tiboy
    Subscriber

    perks, I’m with you, especially on the roads in Bristol you’ll only last a short while if you don’t, but then again I guess that’s one way to improve the gene pool

    poppa
    Member

    This is taken from a comment on BikeRadar, posted by an employee of the CTC: http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/naughty-duffy-eh-20525

    “* The evidence from places where helmet use has been increased significantly, notably through helmet laws (e.g. in Australia, New Zealand, parts of the USA and Canada etc) is that cycle use has declined drastically, and that safety for the remaining cyclists has not detectably improved, in some cases it appears to have got worse.

    * There is very little evidence about the reason(s) for this apparently counter-intuitive lack of benefits from helmet-wearing, however there are plenty of possible explanations. For one thing, helmets offer at best only very limited protection, they are (and can only be) designed for minor knocks and falls, not impacts with moving traffic. And then there are a whole host of possible reasons why the wearing of helmets may make cyclists more likely to hit their heads in the first place, potentially negating or outweighing whatever (at best limited) benefits a helmet might provide in the event of such an impact.

    * For instance, it is known that some people, including young children as well as teenagers, “risk-compensate” when using helmets, i.e. act less cautiously. Drivers may also risk-compensate – one small-scale study has found that they leave less space when overtaking a cyclist with a helmet than one without. By effectively increasing the size of the head, a helmet may also turn what would otherwise have been mere glancing blows or even complete “near misses” into very serious neck injuries or “rotational force” injuries of the kind most likely to result in brain damage. Or, by reducing the numbers of cyclists, pressure to wear helmets may also be counter-productive by reducing the “safety in numbers” for those cyclists who remain. There are other possible factors but these are the main ones.

    I explained all this very patiently to him. I also sent him links to CTC’s main helmet page (http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4688 and http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4641) and to the Bicycle Helmet Research Foundation (www.cyclehelmets.org).”

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    Broken neck? seriously?

    someone going to start posting links to some research here or is it just going to be the usual heresay?

    who mashed the statistics to get the helmet = broken neck conclusion????

    Xan
    Member

    I would say it falls down the same route as motorists being made to wear seatbelts and motorcyclist not wearing helmets. If you are stupid enough (IMO) not to want to do it, then dont make people do it. ~After all if there are injured/killed then thats their tough s**t for not wareing one in the first place. I dont think its the governments/police place to make people do it!!

    gonefishin
    Member

    There is another school of thought that other road users will take more risks around a helmeted rider thereby increasing the probability of an accident happening.

    thomthumb
    Member

    because, like moter cyclists and car seatbelts, i shouldn’t have to wear one.

    Speed limits are to protect others, as are gun laws. Enforcing seatbelt and helemt wearing is the governemt encroaching on MY personal safety, it will only kill me if i choose not to wear one.

    That is why.

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    The problem with reports like that is the word “MAY”…

    furthermore – the issue with reduction in cycling is indeed a problem, however, you could read that as an ABSOLUTE reduction in number of accidents.

    I heard a similar story on radio 4 at the weekend (and instantly thought of STW) where they also said that the cycle numbers recovered after a while – therefore it ended up being benificial.

    glenp
    Member

    Again, perks. Why do you not wear a helmet when walking?

    poppa
    Member

    “safety for the remaining cyclists has not detectably improved” ?

    So why bother?

    FWIW I helmet off road, or when doing a ‘serious’ road ride, but don’t when pootling about town.

    soobalias
    Member

    like to see you make me wear a lid, seatbelt or condom.

    its my choice.

    im off for a smoke now.

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    glenp _ are you serious? no, this is STW…as a pedestrian you walk on pavements, generally dont wander into busy roads, and are able to avoid most accidents! damn….I bit…

    I commute in london, my route includes hyde park corner, the building site around westminster bridge and elephant and castle. I’m wearing a lid, no question.

    poppa
    Member

    the issue with reduction in cycling is indeed a problem, however, you could read that as an ABSOLUTE reduction in number of accidents.

    So… your policy for reducing the total number of cycling accidents is to reduce the number of people cycling?!? Hmmm… maybe I misunderstood that.

    aP
    Member

    You do realise that helmets aren’t designed to withstand impacts greater than 12mph? and the man who was hit by a motorcyclist wouldn’t have been any less injured if he had been wearing a helmet?

    I’ve actually been told by someone that its OK to deliberately run cyclists off the road because they’re “wearing helmets and so won’t be injured”.

    glenp
    Member

    Totally serious. You are twice as likely to sustain a head injury as a pedestrian near a road as you are cycling (per time spent doing those activities).

    If I were doing your route I’d wear a helmet, sure. But I see no reason that I should be forced.

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    btw – i don’t want to make anyone – all I asked was WHY wouldn’t you – there have so far been no good reasons why not.

    the reasons re the collective behaviour aren’t necessarily relevent to individual cyclists.

    Incidently I hate the idea of nanny state, I’m honestly not arguing the compulsion point.

    Premier Icon I_did_dab
    Subscriber

    helmets – very good
    compulsory helmet laws – very bad

    that is all

    Premier Icon perks
    Subscriber

    Glenp – good example of why people should use reference links…i’d be interested in reading the source of that statistic.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    ‘it will only kill me if i choose not to wear one’

    Have you not seen the adverts!? You may also kill your mum, who’s sat infront of you.

    FWIW I think it’s a bad idea to enforce helmet use, but do support seatbelts, and I’m fairly indifferent on motorcylcists wearing helmets, although the number of lives saved by both is much much greater than would be saved on a push bike.

    I’ve heard the broken neck thing too, it does make sense, but I imagine it’s such a tiny number of cases it’s not really worth factoring in!

    Premier Icon StirlingCrispin
    Subscriber

    I helped the CTC with some literature searches on this subject.

    I used to wear a helmet all the time but after reading all the research papers I now no longer wear one when when commuting.

    I do wear one when riding a mountain bike.

    Risk compensation, increased risk of rotational brain injury, attitude of motorists, convenience, relative risk of various activities were all reasons that contributed to this decision.

    poppa
    Member

    perks –

    1. Cyclists risk compensate
    2. Drivers risk compensate
    3. Inconvenient
    4. Hot head
    5. Helmets cost money
    6. Ruins your hair

    Premier Icon terrahawk
    Subscriber

    is this debate taking place on the radio because there’s a plan to introduce this as a law?

    Or is it Vine and his production team revisiting old chesnuts in order to get a response from his listeners?
    trolling, in other words.

    aP
    Member

    I think its because of the recent compensation case between a cyclist and a motorcyclist where the judge said that the cyclist had an element of contribution to injuries because they hadn’t been wearing a helmet – except that the imnpact was at greater than 11 (12?) mph and so wearing a helmet wouldn’t have a made a difference (because almost no cycle helmet is designed to withstand an impact greater than 12 mph).

    Spongebob
    Member

    Always wear a helmet! You never know when you are going to get taken out by “numpty” while riding on the road – almost happened to me 48hrs ago! My mate would be dead if he hadn’t bought a helmet the day before he went over the pars and “head planted” on a cricket ball sized rock. The helmet split in two, his head did not!

    Wearing a good helmet is also cool. It demontrates that you are an enthusiast, not the sort of person that is too tight to buy proper clothing and safety gear! You know, the type that ride in jeans or baggy chain snagging jogging bottoms, untied laces, no gloves, no SPD shoes etc. It is this sort of person who is uncool, not the properly attired cyclist.

    Spongebob
    Member

    Always wear a helmet! You never know when you are going to get taken out by “numpty” while riding on the road – almost happened to me 48hrs ago! My mate would be dead if he hadn’t bought a helmet the day before he went over the bars and “head planted” on a cricket ball sized rock. The helmet split in two, his head did not!

    Wearing a good helmet is also cool. It demontrates that you are an enthusiast, not the sort of person that is too tight to buy proper clothing and safety gear! You know, the type that ride in jeans or baggy chain snagging jogging bottoms, untied laces, no gloves, no SPD shoes etc. It is this sort of person who is uncool, not the properly attired cyclist.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 162 total)

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