Dear bike designers…

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  • Dear bike designers…
  • Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    You may have seen in magazines and online the idea that riders who want to maximise their bike’s longness, lowness and slackness are “sizing up”. And as you design bikes you may want to make that option as accessible to them as possible.

    If you do, please don’t forget to ensure that your bikes’ sizes are still suitable for the people they’re designed for. Don’t, for example, shorten the seat tube on your XL frames so much that a 6’3″ rider can’t get the saddle high enough even when the bike is specced with a 425mm long seatpost and you claim that your XLs are suitable for riders up to 6’5″

    Or in other words, Whyte your XL 905 is actually a very long L and don’t pretend that it’s anything else. That was a bit of a wasted demo ride. Bah, humbug.

    ChrisXL surely?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Ignore him bike designers, make the seat tubes short as you can please.

    🙂

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    perchypanther – Member
    ChrisXL surely?

    🙂 My middle name is not Xavier.

    chakaping – Member
    Ignore him bike designers, make the seat tubes short as you can please.
    🙂

    Or they could actually make the bikes long enough for a given rider height/seat tube.

    Premier Icon Tiger6791
    Subscriber

    Oooh while we’re on….

    Can we have a new wheel size please (?) , bored of the current ones

    and hub width, that’d be smashing

    and BB type

    also headsets have remained pretty static for a while, 2.5″ steerers maybe..

    Premier Icon bungalistic
    Subscriber

    Oddly enough on a ride yesterday two chaps behind me were making similar comments in the opposite direction. They liked that Bird made long frames with low seat tubes and standover so you could fit longer dropper posts on them.

    While I kind of agree I was wondering if it would cause issues for taller people who maybe don’t use a dropper and struggle to find a normal seat post to fit.

    Premier Icon prawny
    Subscriber

    It’s obviously a SRAM led conspiracy to sell more 150mm+ Reverbs.

    I’m in to be fair, I think my new bike is short by current standards, but I’d rather have a nice long dropper than an uber long bike, especially on a hardtail.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    I like long dropper posts, my Mega has a 170mm Reverb on it, but the important thing is that as I’m tall I still need a long seat tube. It’s not like I have the option to size up – that 19″ so called XL is the largest size the Whyte 905 is available in, and according to their web site is supposed to be good for riders up to 6’5″.

    If you do, please don’t forget to ensure that your bikes’ sizes are still suitable for the people they’re designed for. Don’t, for example, shorten the seat tube on your XL frames so much that a 6’3″ rider can’t get the saddle high enough even when the bike is specced with a 425mm long seatpost and you claim that your XLs are suitable for riders up to 6’5″

    I think what you meant to type was: “Please spec 170mm Reverbs which are 480mm long, on XL bikes”.

    Premier Icon prawny
    Subscriber

    I can’t size up because I’ve got stumpy legs.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
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    prawny – Member
    I can’t size up because I’ve got stumpy legs.

    It sounds like we both want the same thing (bikes that are an appropriate length for their seat tube size), but for different reasons.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    It sounds like we both want the same thing (bikes that are an appropriate length for their seat tube size), but for different reasons.

    This means different things to riders of different leg lengths though.

    +1 for longer dropper posts being the solution.

    bigyinn
    Member

    If you’ve got a dropper post, why do you need the seat tube to be as short as possible?
    Is it actually just a fashion thing?
    Personally I agree with the OP. At 6’5″ I want a frame that means I dont have to have a silly long seatpost sticking out of the frame. Ta.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    If you’ve got a dropper post, why do you need the seat tube to be as short as possible?

    So I can get low enough on the bike on steep slopes, ta.

    Premier Icon prawny
    Subscriber

    bigyinn – Member
    If you’ve got a dropper post, why do you need the seat tube to be as short as possible?
    Is it actually just a fashion thing?

    You need about 200mm of exposed seatpost to fit even a 125mm droper on. My 17″ frame looks tiny to me, but it’s still touch and go whether I could fit a 150mm drop post on, and I couldn’t put a 170mm on

    I’m making do with 120mm at the moment, it’s 20mm more than I had, and leaves me with post spare for a crud raceguard.

    ahwiles
    Member

    i’m with the OP on this.

    if the seatpost is less than 510mm, no amount of silly bendy* seatpost will help me.

    and i’m not even that tall.

    (*and i’m not even that heavy)

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    For reference, here’s my XL (20″) Mega:

    That’s a 170mm Reverb in there. There’s still plenty of seat post showing even with it fully dropped. Somebody my height doesn’t need a bike with a 19″ seat tube in order to be able to fit a long dropper.

    If I paid about 300 quid for another 170mm Reverb then I’d have a seat post long enough that I could ride an XL Whyte 905 fairly comfortably. That seems like a steep cost to be able to ride a bike that’s apparently sized for someone my height to begin with.

    Making long bikes with relatively short seat tubes is fine but either admit you’re not making an actual XL frame, or make one that is actually suitable for tall riders. Don’t make a Large and pretend that it’s XL, just because it’s long.

    Premier Icon prawny
    Subscriber

    That doesn’t look that big at all.

    You must be huuuuuge.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    I’m 6’3″, maybe 6’4″. The 29″ wheels help make it look a little better proportioned than it otherwise would. So does dropping the post.

    Compare and contrast with a 26″ wheel bike:

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Dear riders of weird proportions,

    We’re sad that your freakish bodies don’t fit our bikes that are designed to fit the majority of people within a standard deviation or two, based on what they said they wanted fit wise a couple of years ago.

    If you hate our efforts so much, feel free to go custom. Were sure you’ll be better at it than us.

    Kind regards,

    Bike designers.

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    To be fair you do have the longest legs in the world Chris, I’m just under 6’5″ and you have the seat higher than I do!

    To be fair you do have the longest legs in the world Chris, I’m just under 6’5″ and you have the seat higher than I do!

    I’ve been amazed by the variances in saddle heights between riders of the same height – or the sameness in saddle height between riders of very different height. I’m 5’10.5″ and I recently hopped onto a friend’s XC bike to see how it handled, expecting to have to lower the saddle to ride it. He had his saddle at exactly the same height as me – and he’s almost 6’3″!

    I demand that you immediately restore to me the missing length from my legs !

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    tomhoward – Member
    Dear riders of weird proportions,

    We’re sad that your freakish bodies don’t fit our bikes that are designed to fit the majority of people within a standard deviation or two, based on what they said they wanted fit wise a couple of years ago.

    If you hate our efforts so much, feel free to go custom. Were sure you’ll be better at it than us.

    Kind regards,

    Bike designers.

    While I’m not delighted that some bike companies choose not to cater for riders of my height and only provide frame sizes up to Large, I accept that. I know I need an XL frame and that’s what I look for.

    What annoyed me with the Whyte 905 is that they say they provide an XL frame and that it’s suitable for my height (the web site says the XL is for heights 6’2? – 6’5?), but it’s just not the case. In attempting to increase the size’s appeal in a secondary market (people who want to size up) they’ve neglected the people for whom the XL frame was their only option.

    bigjim – Member
    To be fair you do have the longest legs in the world Chris, I’m just under 6’5″ and you have the seat higher than I do!

    People call you Stumpy Legs Jim behind your back, didn’t you know? 🙂

    Premier Icon mcnultycop
    Subscriber

    For mountain bikes seat tube length is a daft measurement for mountain bike sizes. Short, medium, long and longest will do.

    I’ll voice the opposing opinion – I’m 6′ and getting a Large Aeris 145 which has a whopping 655mm ETT (and I still might like a little more length on it) yet I could only just manage with the 150mm Reverb all the way into the frame, so I’ll be getting a 125mm dropper when it arrives.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    mcnultycop – Member
    For mountain bikes seat tube length is a daft measurement for mountain bike sizes. Short, medium, long and longest will do.

    It isn’t the only dimension that’s important, but it is relevant.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Did you contact Whyte about this or are you hoping they’ll find it here?

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    Just venting. But even when I’m irritated it appears I can’t rant effectively. 🙂

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    You can’t argue with one thing- Whyte sell the bike as suitable for up to 6’5, Chris is within the size limit but the seatpost is past minimum insertion. That’s obvious bullshit. And it’s inconsistent across Whyte’s range so how does something that works for one bike not work for another?

    But longer posts do change things a bit, basically it’s desirable to have more exposed seatpost than it used to be, as long as it doesn’t kill the frame. Which this bike, as sold, probably will.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    I wasn’t being a smartarse. I try to send feedback to bike companies when I think it might be helpful, I expect Whyte would give you an honest reply.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    chakaping – Member
    I wasn’t being a smartarse. I try to send feedback to bike companies when I think it might be helpful, I expect Whyte would give you an honest reply.

    Good point. I’ll give it some thought, but it’s much easier to write a grumpy post on a forum than write a polite but firm formal message to a bike company.

    Premier Icon jamesoz
    Subscriber

    Forget seat tube length, low bottom brackets are starting to wind me up.
    As it’s been a bit soggy I’ve been mostly riding my old bikes and forgot just how nice it is to Pedal at a decent cadence when I want, rather than when I think I can get away with it.

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    Tom are you a bike designer?

    Dear riders of weird proportions,

    We’re sad that your freakish bodies don’t fit our bikes that are designed to fit the majority of people within a standard deviation or two, based on what they said they wanted fit wise a couple of years ago.

    If you hate our efforts so much, feel free to go custom. Were sure you’ll be better at it than us.

    Kind regards,

    Bike designers.

    That’s silly on an amazing number of levels

    All he is saying is XL bikes are for the tall. If the seat post is only 19″ that does sound very short for rider of my height. My current bike is a virtual 21.5″ but Actually 20.5″. That leaves me with alot of post out

    Premier Icon keithb
    Subscriber

    I remember the days when bike we’ve regularly slammed in reviews for having too low bottom brackets. Like less than a foot.

    The world has gone mad, I tell thee.

    Turnerfan1
    Member

    The problem is a lot worst when your an xc rider or don’t use a dropper!
    My last bike was a Giant XTC 29er which was supposed to be a 22″ frame but worked out as a 20.5.
    It did fit me pretty well.
    Just bought a custom ti hardtail and actually told them to lengthen the seat tube!
    I typically avoid L or XL frames with 19″ seat tubes because of the seat post being on the limit!
    Come on frame manufacturers size up in the seat tube as well as the top tube!
    Max

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Dear bike shops… please offer customers longer seatposts with your XL bikes.
    Dear bike designers… keep at it with proper length toptubes, and let me slam that saddle low, please.

    Euro
    Member

    Im with the OP on this. 6 months ago i was in the market for a new bike. Half of the potential bikes were ruled out as they were just too small in XL – some XLs are only go up to 6’2″ – that’s a medium to us normal sized folk. Another factor is who tests these bigger frames? I know Nukeproof (sorry OP) didn’t have tall riders giving feedback on the Mega above. A riding buddy (tall as me 2 6’5″) had a prolonged test ride on the new 290 and on his suggestions they stopped frame production to make design alterations. You just can’t scale up a medium frame and call it XL – well you can and most do but it’s luck if if works as well as it could. One of the reasons I went with Cotic is that Cy is tall enough to know what us tallies need.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    6’5″ – 6’6″ riders – what’s your bb axle to saddle top dist?

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