That really is incredible.

I cant remember the last time I did ANY car journey less than 5 miles

That was a 2005 figure, from a Sustrans document, but I imagine things are no better now:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sustrans.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/guidelines_16.pdf

21% of journeys less than one mile were made by car in 2005. Don’t underestimate people’s preference for choosing the “easiest” form of transport.

Negating the need for separate bike lanes?

I don’t think it’s the speed differential that is the problem with mixing motorised and non motorised transport. Even if a cyclist and a motorist are both doing 20mph, one of them is 100kg total weight and the other one is one or two tonnes.

Bringing down speed limits is a good idea, but needs enforcement. Most of Edinburgh’s residential areas, and some main roads, are 20 mph now, but my experience is that the limits are routinely ignored by an awful lot of drivers.

Yeah but if you can accelerate and stay in the flow of traffic, it is and feels much safer.

Plus more people out of cars and on to speed pedalecs would see a reduction of the numbers of cars on the streets, it wouldn’t take a great deal for that to be very noticeable, considering the size of a car to a bike. Less car traffic would mean safer roads.

are the 20mph limits actual legal limits btw? (I know the police aren’t interested) Just wondering about the legality though.

No one sticks to the legally defined power outputs

Wait … What, nobody at all ?

I might have to change my views on this whole thing in the light of this incredible revelation 🙄

raybanwomble

Because the last time I saw one, at Greno two weeks ago, some fat bastard was powering up a hill at what was at least 15mph looking like he was just spinning. No one sticks to the legally defined power outputs and they are impossible to police.

Give me a break

Give you a break?

For what? Having a go at overweight people cycling? No. infact I think you should apologise. Not that it sounds like you were actually brave enough to say the same to the guy you saw.

For not understanding the legally defined power outputs? ie. On a UK legal pedalec the assisance limit cuts out at 15.5mph, sounds like the guy you saw wasn’t breaking it. merely pedalling it just below or at it.

With this taken into consideration how is the assist going to cause a rambler any more harm than a fit rider not paying attetion or riding like a dick?

because the bike is a lot heavier and possibly so is the rider as he needs the assist…

I simply don’t think we’ll ever seem the mass adoption of commuting by bike (instead of by car) for the simple reason our weather is terrible!

Today, a motorbike costs WAY less than a car, and yet, motorbikes make up less than 3% of the fleet?

tbh I do agree there to a point, but we should atleast aspire to it? I think in the netherlands it’s something like 50 odd percent of short journeys are done by bike? but that’s taked them 30/40 years to get there. I think we’re luck if it is 1%.

At government level we should set long term targets of a 1% increase every year or something like that, and put serious funding and law making clout behind in.

Transport in the country would be revolutionised in 20/30 years time.

because the bike is a lot heavier and possibly so is the rider as he needs the assist…

Maybe you should patrol the countryside with some scales and weigh people and their bike to see if they come in under the designated legal weight.

If they don’t you can tell them they’re a danger and you’re going to stop them riding…

Some of the comments on here are real sky’s falling in stuff.

under the designated legal weight.

400kg btw.

Just what I was thinking Stu.

absolute nutters.

Maybe you should patrol the countryside with some scales and weigh people and their bike to see if they come in under the designated legal weight.

mabe you should try reading what I was answering?

The use of assist implies possibly a heavier rider and almost certainly a heavier bike

Yep.

You do think the sky is falling in.😂

You do think the sky is falling in.😂

there’s a large girl that commutes down the same canal path as me and rides at full tilt on her e-bike, another commuter I know has had a close encounter with her as she doesn’t seem to have the sense to slow down before taking a blind corner to go under the various bridges on the path.

She is certainly going to be carrying a lot more momentum than the other riders I see on that path, I always take the inside line through those bridges in case I meet her as it is not going to be me that’s going to sample that canal water…

So she shouldn’t be allowed to ride because she hasn’t crashed into you and someone you know.

Seems fair that a made up scenario featuring a larger lady who hasn’t crashed into Turnerguy and his made up commuter pal should influence people’s opinions on e-bikes.

A bit like the made up scenarios that the original Turner Guy In the OP used to justify his negative opinion e-bike ramble.

Not sure I would notice the difference in being hit by a 100kg fat bloke on a 20kg e-bike or the same 100kg fat bloke on a 14kg MTB.  Being hit is the problem.

So she shouldn’t be allowed to ride because she hasn’t crashed into you and someone you know.

so by extension I should be allowed to speed everywhere in my car because I haven’t hit anyone yet ?

so by extension I should be allowed to speed everywhere in my car because I haven’t hit anyone yet ?

Nope.  It means you can drive around in a heavier car.

e-bikes are ace, few of my mates have them, perfect for winch and plummet type off piste riding, so much more opportunity to descend than the ‘normal’ grinding up a fireroad.

I couldn’t really give a toss what some industry bod says tbh.

Turnipguy

Last time a checked speeding was illegal.

Not sure where to check for the combined weight limit of bike and rider on a canal but a dought that she is breaking any laws.😂

I just wish the larger lady that ploughed into Mrs stu last week had been on an ebike instead of in a car.

She might not have been limping round with a smashed up face and broken wrist if she had been.

The problem here is the woman cycling recklessly, not the type of bike. There’s a few blind tunnels on the yowpath on my commute and you could easily be doing 15mph on them on a mtb, nevermind a fast road bike.

I was passed by a big lad on a e bike this morning. Surely that’s better than him driving past me in a car? Why do people care? Is it the perceived embarrassment of being passed by a less fit rider?

he problem here is the woman cycling recklessly, not the type of bike. There’s a few blind tunnels on the yowpath on my commute and you could easily be doing 15mph on them on a mtb, nevermind a fast road bike.

I’d tend to agree, but the problem with an e-bike (and to a greater extent, other motorised vehicles)  is that the power is not generally in proportion to rider experience – it’s pretty hard to get bike fit without riding some miles. You’ll be slow and stupid to begin with but that’s OK, you make your mistakes at a lower speed with fewer consequences.

On an ebike it’s still relatively low consequence (hence the speed limit, which I think is appropriate – if you wanna ride faster, get fitter) however speed is not as correlated to experience, it’s pretty much 15.5mph or as fast as they consider sensible for everyone.

I kinda agree with the story of non-collisions being quite clearly a rubbish illustration though.

It’s a very typical british attitude to only really focus on the negative side of things and to imagine the worst and treat that as the norm..

Oh but what if you walk down the road and a piano falls on your head. Aye, that would that would be bad, we’re agreed, can we move on the discussion now.. 😆

She’s right about it being in turbo and pulling away from you. But that was the early firmware, Specialized\Brose has already sorted that with the latest update.

28mph uphill hmmmm, maybe on tarmac certainly not off-road! That would take some effort.

He’s right about the high-end market; it will be ebikes in 5-8yrs + he’s going to miss the boat again! Just like he did with his carbon frames.

28mph uphill hmmmm, maybe on tarmac certainly not off-road! That would take some effort.

….and irrelevant in the UK because it would either be an illegal e-bike or a hero riding unassisted.

I simply don’t think we’ll ever seem the mass adoption of commuting by bike (instead of by car) for the simple reason our weather is terrible!

Copenhagen, where 45% of the population commute by bicycle to their work or study places each day…

I’d tend to agree, but the problem with an e-bike (and to a greater extent, other motorised vehicles)  is that the power is not generally in proportion to rider experience – it’s pretty hard to get bike fit without riding some miles. You’ll be slow and stupid to begin with but that’s OK, you make your mistakes at a lower speed with fewer consequences.

15.5 mph is not fast so don’t really get your point.  An easily achievable speed for a new cyclist on flat tarmac.  And if going downhill on the road then a person just stepping onto a normal bike for the first time could get over 30mph.

Copenhagen, where 45% of the population commute by bicycle to their work or study places each day…

Correct me if I’m wrong but Denmark decided to build a lot of cycling infra in the 70s-80s.  That was a tipping point in acculturation and one that didn’t happen in the UK.  As we all know the last 50 years has been increasingly dominated by the car in the UK to the point where it is normalised.

Cycling in the UK is now largely seen as a low-status, annoying, odd, refusenik, laborious, dangerous and even ‘childish’ transport choice by the majority of Brits who on the flipside see cars as the natural, almost perfect solution to the vast majority of their transport needs (including transport to leisure activities).  Cycling for transport was a big part of our culture in the 1900s-1950s  It is not now.  Denmark made a decision in the 70s-80s.  The UK made a different one.  So these two countries have nearly 40 years of different culture/infra behind them.

UK also has a lot of rural hilly terrain that 40 years of driving has made ‘flat’.  And then there’s our obesity epidemic (which could be helped by cycle transport choices)

In short, the UK chose the car and that isn’t changing significantly as the tipping point was so long ago.

How we travelled in 2016:

ebikes/pedelecs may help encourage a little more cycling in UK cities and on some urban  commutes, but as evidenced on STW they also seem to create a lot of disagreement between those who cycle mostly for leisure.

but as evidenced on STW they also seem to create a lot of disagreement between those who cycle mostly for leisure.

This forum is much less representative than most members imagine.

Aye. Fu o wind n pish

Aye. Fu o wind n pish

Don’t be so hard on yourself.

It’s a very typical british attitude to only really focus on the negative side of things and to imagine the worst and treat that as the norm..

I think you mean it’s a typical attitude for British remainers…

And you don’t think the leavers only looked at the negative side of immigration?

The net effect of immigration is positive yet they seem to see that positive as negative.  I bet they all ride stupid Turner bikes too.

Turner Flux, Czar, Cyclosys here.

Remainer. 🙂

I think you mean it’s a typical attitude for British remainers…

What utterly pointless drivel.

Anyway, back to the discussion, I don’t think we’ll ever get to the model of the likes of Amsterdam and copenhagen, as those examples weren’t at a time when people were completely self obsessed like they are now.

I do hope I’m wrong mind….