David Turner’s View on E-Bikes

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  • David Turner’s View on E-Bikes
  • taxi25
    Member

    Never been any different to how it is now in my experience.

    You’ve never though as a cyclist you belonged to a community ? I always felt I did. I do still to a certain excetent, certainly road riding with the whole club thing. Perhaps with so many new people coming into cycling it was bound to happen.

    A tiny symptom is the waving to fellow riders thing. Not that many years ago it was unusual for it not to happen. Now its the exception not the rule. I sometimes think I’m the only one who still does.

    nealglover
    Member

    You’ve never though as a cyclist you belonged to a community ?

    No more so or less so than I do now.

    Its always been pretty much the same. Some mates I go riding with, some strangers I see when I’m out riding. Not much has changed in my experience.

    tjagain
    Member

    As regards to “community”  I have more in common with hillwalkers than with uplift riders in full face hats and body armour.

    My community is those who love exploring the countryside on bike,on foot or by horse

    I have been riding bikes on and off road for almost 50years.   There never was one cycling community. It’s always been fragmented.

    Spin
    Member

    Been riding near St Anton in Austria today. Taking families with young kids out of the equation I reckon 75% of riders we saw were on ebikes.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    you’re going to have to go into a bit more detail about the actual study to prove that point, rather than that piss poor excuse for an article! 😆

    Fine by me either way too mind, but i’d like to see the detail in the study. (sound like it’s just related to commuting tbh reading the actual intro to the study.) you need to pay for the pdf.

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    Not really getting into the generic ebike debate but just to add I spoke to David Turner three times when buying my Sultan. He gave me excellent advice and Im still riding that bike 4 years later.

    Edit: lols at the autocorrect for I N R A T S

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Non-recreational transport mode usage was quantified using the question “How often do you currently use each of the following methods of travel to get to and from places?”, rated on a five-point scale ranging from “Daily or almost daily” to “Never” (Table S2). Modes considered were walking, cycling, e-biking (electrically assisted cycling), motorcycle or moped, public transport, and car or van. Subsequently, frequencies were assigned to each of the categories, transforming this into a days-per-month variable (“Daily or almost daily” = 24 days per month; “on 1-3 days per week” = 8 days per month; “on 1-3 days per month” = 2 days per month; “Less than once per month” = 1 day per month; “Never” = 0 days per month). For the longitudinal assessment, absolute changes in frequency between t<sub>0</sub> and t<sub>1</sub> were calculated. Secondly, a categorical variable looking at cycling frequency was considered: participants were categorized as frequent cyclist (at least once per week), occasional cyclist (less than once per week), or non-cyclist. Changes between groups were considered in the longitudinal study.

    ……

    We mainly focussed on the extreme mode switch from car to bike, but also for some other modes near-significant effects were found. Although the sample of e-bikers was small, riding an e-bike was associated with higher BMI. This finding could complement a previous study that found that older adults with a higher BMI were more likely to be an e-bike-user (Van Cauwenberg et al., in press). This would indicate the presence of self-selection. In the longitudinal analysis, we hypothesize that more frequent use of an e-bike leads to a higher BMI through less regular biking. However, it is unlikely that all of the weight gain was the result of reduced physical activity, as e-biking still requires moderate to vigorous levels of physical activity (Berntsen et al., 2017; Langford et al., 2017)

    oh, and

    Due to the less frequent use of motorcycle and e-bike compared to other modes, confidence intervals were wider and mostly not statistically significant.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    road.cc seems to be making a bit of an arse of themselves these days, that guy that drove into the pedestrain, now this blatantly click baity headline with no grounding in fact? 😆 Those guys are having a ‘mare!

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    you’re going to have to go into a bit more detail about the actual study to prove that point, rather than that piss poor excuse for an article

    You need to go into detail that you will likely be thinner riding a non-power assisted cycle?

    They are just electric motor bikes.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    You need to go into detail that you will likely be thinner riding a non-power assisted cycle

    I suggest diet combined with moderate exercise (in whatever form) is the best way to go about that.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    I’d like to see the evidence you have about “Cycling daily reduces obesity – unless it’s an e-bike” ?

    Premier Icon colp
    Subscriber

    They are just electric motor bikes.

    Absolutely!

    My enduro bike is around 55hp, a 250w E-bike is around 0.3hp

    So identical.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Absolutely!

    My enduro bike is around 55hp, a 250w E-bike is around 0.3hp

    So identical.

    It’s relative.

    No one said identical.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    I’d like to see the evidence you have about “Cycling daily reduces obesity – unless it’s an e-bike” ?

    Assuming the same diet you would be working less.

    Burning less calories.

    I would definitely be fatter.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Just admit they’re lazy fun and we can all go home.

    Why pretend they’re anything else?

    Ride what you want.

    However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.

    That tells you everything you need to know.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.

    That tells you everything you need to know.

    It tells me nothing. I’ve no idea what you mean.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Ahh, now we get to the source of the problem, we’ve got a stava warrior here concerned he’s going to get knocked off.

    Don’t worry, I don’t use strava you are safe! 😆 Couldn’t give a hoot about KOMs.

    Are you going to back up the claims in the article headline you posted? Or are you happy to trade on nonsense?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Assuming the same diet you would be working less.

    Burning less calories.

    I would definitely be fatter.

    Surely calorie burn is dependent on effort? Why would you put in less effort on an ebike? Why not just stay on the ebike till you’ve burned the same calories?

    geex
    Member

    A tiny symptom is the waving to fellow riders thing. Not that many years ago it was unusual for it not to happen. Now its the exception not the rule. I sometimes think I’m the only one who still does.

    Have you ever considered any alternative form of greeting, perhaps a smile or a polite/friendly spoken phrase?
    Not every human being who rides a bicycle expects the little wave you think they need to acknowledge.

    kerley
    Member

    However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.

    That tells you everything you need to know.

    It tells me that the non bike riders are slow.  No (legal) bike rider is going to be taking any of my KOMs.

    nealglover
    Member

    However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.

    Now that’s Hilarious.

    #stravaqueen 🙄

    just admit, strava is just “lazy racing” for people that don’t want to race for real, and we can all go home.

    scu98rkr
    Member

    I would like some kind of commuting ebike to enable me to extend my range.

    I live in Reading (ish) I used to have a job in didcot but know have a job in London ~36miles.

    I’ve done the commute once but would like to do it more regularly.

    To be honest all the ebike are pretty useless as they only help up to 15 miles an hour.

    I pretty much spend the whole commute above 15 miles an hour as it is flat.

    Ebikes need to be able to help up to ~20 miles an hour maybe a bit more say ~25mph.

    stevextc
    Member

    nealglover beat me to it. Turner starts with a false premise and develops an argument for it. it’s just a “thin end of the wedge” fallacy.

    +1

    All this vitriol should be directed into opening up more land, more stuff, more rights of access not getting upset the guy next to you didn’t earn his turns.

    It never seems to occur to Americans that their land (mis-)managment system is the root of the problems with access.

    One one side they have the land management and on the other side they have everyone else.. be they e-MTBers, non E… people with RV’s, hikers or whatever they have successfully created a divide and conquer so a few people control most of the land.

    They have created a successful division of everyone who wants to use land for recreation fighting each other.

    It reminds me of the gun lobby in many ways…

    philjunior
    Member

    I think he totally misses the point when he says that it’d be strange for people to buy a pedal bike when you could get a motorised one for the same money. I’ve been able to buy faster machines for a long time, but still love my push bikes!

    One thing people have pointed out on this thread is that the ebike could be the uber money top end. If I can get my next carbon-rich enduro sled for about £2k cos the big halo model is a £10k+ ebike in 5 years or so, I’ll be fine with that! For me the power coming from my legs and my legs only is part of it – I feel a bit of a cheat not running a dynamo for lighting (but it’s not really practical for helmet lights…). And yes I’ve done uplift days, and no I don’t see an irony with that, as there’s still not a motor on my bike.

    And re. that road.cc article, I’d far rather see a marginally less fat population all riding to work on ebikes than sat in their cars getting nowhere and clogging up the roads. I also don’t care if others want to ride ebikes, they can do that. It’s just not for me (not for fun anyway).

    Premier Icon lesgrandepotato
    Subscriber

    I think they are a necessary invention. I can’t do any more arguing about wheel sizes. So a market variation to motorised seems like a lovely place to defend my lifestyle / brand choices.

    timbog160
    Member

    I like them – I bought a long travel one last year

    Ive also just bought a new non ebike

    Sometimes I ride one, sometimes the other

    I have nothing more to add!

    legbacon
    Member

    Motors are great for commuting and trips around town, but for recreation I’ll stick with cycling.

    legbacon
    Member

    Also, necessity is not the mother of invention, laziness is.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Zappa is the original and best mother of invention

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    eBIke discussions invariably become a facsimile of the 1890s discussions of the deleterious effects of the freewheel on fitness and how it would encourage ‘coasting’ and laziness..

    For a commuter an eBike is a practical way to arrive at the office not stinking with sweat.

    For the non-cyclist it seems the sensible way to have the fun of cycling without the work. I predict we’ll see them outnumber ordinary bikes on our streets within a few years.

    There’s lots of sensible reasons to get an eBike, but for people who are committed cyclists, forget those.

    Let’s not be sensible.*

    There’s a far better reason. They are bloody good fun. Ride one before you form an opinion.

    And just like people who ride fixed wheels have not been obliterated by the scourge of the the freewheel, we’ll still be running our dinosaur unassisted bikes when the streets are swarming with the z-i-i-i-p of the eBikes. And maybe all the cool kids will want to be like us… 🙂

    .

    .

    *Warning: advice on sensibility from a singlespeeder? May contain nuts… 🙂

    kcr
    Member

    I test rode a few e-bikes with my mum, when she wanted to buy one (she loves hers and at 78, it’s got her out cycling regularly,  which is great). Once you get past the novelty factor of power assisted legs, I don’t really understand why an electric bike would be more fun to ride than a non electric bike?

    Ebikes need to be able to help up to ~20 miles an hour maybe a bit more say ~25mph

    I think this is where it will get interesting, because I bet there will be consumer pressure to change the law and move in this direction as they become more popular and ubiquitous. I believe the Dutch are already looking at the possibility of building high speed lanes for 45kph e-bikes.

    If everyone levels up to 25mph we’re in a significantly different situation, on or off road.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    Same opposing viewpoints, different times…

    kcr
    Member

    Same opposing viewpoints, different times…

    And the result of that history is that 69% of car journeys are under 5 miles in length, and cycling is no longer a mainstream form of transport in the UK.

    nealglover
    Member

    And the result of that history is that 69% of car journeys are under 5 miles in length

    That really is incredible.

    I cant remember the last time I did ANY car journey less than 5 miles 😳

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    If everyone levels up to 25mph

    in commuting terms the levelling up idea is interesting, particularly if you level down cars to 25mph(not on all roads obv), then all of a sudden cycling and cars start to play on something aproachong a level playing field. Negating the need for separate bike lanes?

    But if there’s a concerted effort to curtail cars speeds and up cycling speeds. say 30 becomes 25, 40 becomes 30, 60 becomes 40. or something like that, then al of a sudden. cycling become much more attractive and less scary to the general populous (I’m not included in that tbh, I enjoy playing with the traffic! 😆 ), particularly if commuting speeds are sitting about 25mph on the cycle.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    epicyclo

    Same opposing viewpoints, different times…

    Having your saddle on backwards will never catch on

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    They’re very popular over here in the states.

    Seems like every other one, certainly in Bend.

    raybanwomble
    Member

    The average Emtb rider is not as quick as an elite XC athlete on a normal XC mtb on the flat or uphill and despite the assistance still won’t have the ability to cover the same range. Downhill an emtb is right around the same speed as a similar mtb and the assist cuts out at 15mph. With this taken into consideration how is the assist going to cause a rambler any more harm than a fit rider not paying attetion or riding like a dick?
    Your *argument* makes no sense.

    Because the last time I saw one, at Greno two weeks ago, some fat bastard was powering up a hill at what was at least 15mph looking like he was just spinning. No one sticks to the legally defined power outputs and they are impossible to police.

    Give me a break, Max’s comments are more considered than yours.

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