David Millar in Olympic Team?

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  • David Millar in Olympic Team?
  • Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    I hope so, he was great at the World Champs.

    AntLockyer
    Member

    No reason to exclude him now the ban has been lifted.

    Yes.

    Done the crime, served his ban. Leaving aside any anti doping work/stance since the ban he should be selected on merit.

    Premier Icon neil853
    Subscriber

    No, sets totally the wrong example IMO

    if we are going to argue the point based on the example it sets i would say that his selection would show that although people make mistakes it doesn’t need to be the end for anyone regardless of their situation. If you screwed up but subsequently work hard, make the right decisions and do your best then you can recover from a bad situation.

    i think that is a more important message to convey than one of punishment and exclusion.

    timc
    Member

    neil853 – Member

    No, sets totally the wrong example IMO

    What example is that?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Yes,

    and it’s about time the winning mentality filtered through!!

    Rules being rules he has been punished and has worked hard in rehabilitation. One of the best adverts for no drugs in sport.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    timc – Member
    neil853 – Member
    No, sets totally the wrong example IMO

    What example is that?
    That you can cheat and still get selected in the future. It undermines all the other clean athletes. I’m in favour of the life ban, the authorities should find a way not to select him for some other reason.

    whatnobeer
    Member

    If they think his form is good enough and has recovered from his injury earlier this year, then yes, definetly. He’s done the time and should be allowed to move on. No one even questions Ohuruogu now.

    the authorities should find a way not to select him for some other reason.

    Sounds as though you’d like the authorities to cheat.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Member

    I’m 50:50 on it myself, he’s done his time but the Olympics is something different IMO. There’s only 5 places to unlike at the World’s, although if he’s on form he would be useful for Cav I guess

    tracknicko
    Member

    ^ exactly.

    how do you feel about people that have served time then Jambalaya?

    brakes
    Member

    One of the best adverts for no drugs in sport.

    agree with this to some extent, but given his behaviour since his ban, I think he should be allowed.

    On merit he should be selected, on the other hand I’d be a bit pissed if I was number 6.

    tracknicko
    Member

    imo if you’re number 6 then you’re number 6.

    his current performance is obviously drug free by modern testing methods (which is all we can work to) as is everyonbe else’s.

    done his time, ban is now over, so free to return.

    Papa_Lazarou
    Member

    According to twitter he has been named in the team.

    Quite right as well!

    cynic-al
    Member

    If he should be there on merit then IMO he should get in.

    I’m not one for life bans though, to me that’s just naive.

    If everyone doping was caught, the peleton would be decimated and many of your heroes would become villains overnight.

    Long list for the mens and women’s olympic road race squads:

    Team GB long list for men’s road race (five to be selected):

    Mark Cavendish
    Steve Cummings
    Chris Froome
    Jeremy Hunt
    David Millar
    Ian Stannard
    Ben Swift
    Bradley Wiggins

    Team GB long list for women’s road race (four to be selected):

    Lizzie Armitstead
    Nicole Cooke
    Katie Colclough
    Sharon Laws
    Lucy Martin
    Emma Pooley

    tracknicko
    Member

    precisely. the retrospective chasing of past champions and complete daily mail attitude to those caught and banned is mental imo.

    Papa_Lazarou
    Member

    Will/should he be selected this afternoon?

    I’d take.

    Cavendish, Stannard, Millar, Wiggins and Swift

    for the men’s and for the women’s

    Armistead, Pooley, Colclough and Cooke if she can place nicely with Armistead or Laws if not.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Given that he effectively can’t and has no intention of attempting to gain a personal gold medal at the games but will effectively be there “to do his bit for the country” through helping a team mate it gives it a slightly different spin. Do we want a time served ex drugs cheat working for us – does it taint a potential Cav gold?

    I feel a bit of a hypocrite about it as I don’t seem to have an issue with Millar being there but LaShawn Merritt and the other time served dirty “foreigners” in athletics being there doesn’t seem right and I can’t help doubting them even now.

    enfht
    Member

    Can anyone ever prove you lose ALL of the illegally-gained muscle mass when you stop doping? I don’t think anyone can categorically say this so no he shouldn’t be included. Which is a shame imo.

    Solo
    Member

    I say we should select him IF he makes the cut, all the others have to.

    FWIW.
    I recently finished reading Put me back on my bike.
    A total eye opener for me on the historic legacy of La Bomba in cycling.
    And in the context of that particular book, a sad story.

    I’ve also read Millar’s book, after which I feel more comfortable about the selection, if it happens.

    But !….
    Will he even put himself up for selection ?…

    Will he even put himself up for selection ?…

    He has, and the selection of the long list has already been announced, See my post a few back.

    tracknicko
    Member

    Can anyone ever prove you lose ALL of the illegally-gained muscle mass when you stop doping? I don’t think anyone can categorically say this so no he shouldn’t be included. Which is a shame imo.

    what? this is a fairly mental avenue to head down. think you should think that one through a bit as it doesn’t really stack up, particualrly as most doping in cycling has sod all to do with muscle building.

    besides if it was pureley a muscle mass issue the tour contendors would look quite different…

    Ro5ey
    Member

    “Will he even put himself up for selection ?… “

    He’s said yes he would, as it would be easier for him not to and put his feet up in front of the telebox and watch it.

    At his stage of his career really don’t see how he gets anything personnal out of the Olypmics… so IMHO good on him for putting himself up to help others whilst, rightly or wrongly, getting shot at.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    If i was in the position to win gold like Cav is i’d not want to win it with the help of a cheat, life ban for cheaters imho. If he rides the medal is tainted

    Junkyard
    Member

    Can anyone ever prove you lose ALL of the illegally-gained muscle mass when you stop doping? I don’t think anyone can categorically say this so no he shouldn’t be included. Which is a shame imo.

    Are you suggesting he could stop training and the muscle mass from doping would get hism through a tour ?

    Even cheats needed to train so I think we can say the EPO has left his body by now

    Forgive and move on
    MIllar i would say is an exception in that he wanted redemption for his sins and he has done a lot to change his image and help the sport

    The GB ban is illegal so he can compete and if we want cav to win we enhanc ehis chance with m,illar there.

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    “Can anyone ever prove you lose ALL of the illegally-gained muscle mass when you stop doping?”

    Wrong drugs/ advantage in this case, more about the amount of oxgyen in your blood.
    And yes it does drop back afterwards.

    In pretty much any other country in the world we wouldn’t be having this conversation, as we are pretty much the only place to have the life time ban.

    me, i think rules are rules and should be the same for everyone.
    Guilty, yes. Time served, yes. If he lived in (insert country here) would he be up for selection, yes.

    Compared to some of the punishments handed out to shall we say FRENCH cyclists laterly, DM punishment was harsh!

    Premier Icon midlifecrashes
    Subscriber

    No, on the basis he is a self-confessed cheat, so if there is any honour or fair play he should never have got on a bike to race again, or been allowed to do so by UCI etc.

    Yes, on the basis that

    Team GB long list for men’s road race (five to be selected):

    Mark Cavendish
    Steve Cummings
    Chris Froome
    Jeremy Hunt
    David Millar
    Ian Stannard
    Ben Swift
    Bradley Wiggins

    Team GB long list for women’s road race (four to be selected):

    Lizzie Armitstead
    Nicole Cooke
    Katie Colclough
    Sharon Laws
    Lucy Martin
    Emma Pooley

    it would not surprise me one bit if any or all of them were doping. It’s pro cycling, innit. Excellent spectacle, but clean? Too dirty for too long to believe it. Would like to believe it could be done clean, but my head says no.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Millar has been named in the 8 person shortlist, news is on various websites.

    Millar plus Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins, Steve Cummings, Chris Froome, Jeremy Hunt, Ian Stannard and Ben Swift.

    jumble
    Member

    MIllar i would say is an exception in that he wanted redemption for his sins and he has done a lot to change his image and help the sport

    Exception to what? He did not admit it until presented with overwhelming proof. He has never named names. Not sure what help you think he has done to the sport rather than the help he need to get himself out of his financial hole after his ban. He is clever enough to know the best way to achieve this and has executed it very well using his most precious commodity – his talent for riding a bike.

    Rules have changed so he can ride. Goodluck to him.

    My view is limited to what I’ve read in the popular media:

    * The BC rules were stricter than the IOC rules that all other countries nominally comply with. BC have just fallen into line with everyone else. To my mind, it should be the same rules for everyone: temporary ban or life-ban, but the inconsistency was not reasonable.

    * It’s clear he’s been wrestling with his conscience over whether to throw his hat in the ring and has genuine remorse for his cheating. He’s simply concluded it would be regretful not to give himself a chance to compete; and he’s right.

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Subscriber

    He’s been punished, done his time, and now should be allowed to compete.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I think it’s hilarious that the Olympics are still treated as though they’re a major moral force for good. Have you looked at the sponsorship list and the over-the-top policing of the trademark?

    cynic-al
    Member

    Exception – in that he got caught

    mrmo
    Member

    There really is some sanctimonoius crap spouted on here sometimes.

    Are you telling me, those of you in sales, you have never knowingly adjusted the truth to get a sale? You have never adjusted the truth to get a job? I see no difference between “little white lies”, “exageration” and doping.

    MrSalmon
    Member

    I think he should ride. He did his time according to the rules, and the ‘no second chances’ line doesn’t really apply in any other aspects of society so why should it in sport?

    Superficial
    Member

    From a physiological point of view, there’s no way that EPO taken in 2004 would have any effect on his fitness now. EPO stimulates production of red blood cells, and red blood cells last 90-120 days or so. I don’t know enough about it, but my attitude to steroids would be something similar to what enfht said – it’ll take a while for any ill-gotten muscle mass to disappear completely (although 8 years is a long time).

    As for the ethics of it, that’s a very different question. I suspect that drug taking is rife, and in which case Millar was just unlucky to get caught. If that’s the case then he’s probably served his time and should just get on with it now.

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