I’m pretty outraged by that.  A 20% increase in standard car fare, in the midst of  massive congestion and delays the majority of the time south-north caused by the removal of barriers.

So, a worse service and a higher cost while the cost of living and disposable income squeeze occurs for all of us public and brexit taunts hauliers .

Rarely for me, I’ve just finished writing a strong complaint.  20% FFS!!

That London, innit?.

So, a worse service and a higher cost while the cost of living and disposable income squeeze occurs for all of us public and brexit taunts hauliers .

What would it need to be to dissuade you from driving in the overcrowded South East?

An extra 33p. I’ll get over it.

What would it need to be to dissuade you from driving in the overcrowded South East?

Speaking as as someone who needs to drive there now and then, it would take:

Everyone I know that still lives there to move locally.

Better flight choices from more local airports to remove the need to drive to Gatwick or Heathrow.

Some form of huge trebuchet to fling me in my car over the channel from my house.

Do you honestly believe that the price rises are because the SE roads are too busy? If so, do you also believe that putting up the cost of crossing the Thames will help in the slightest?

Rarely for me, I’ve just finished writing a strong complaint.

To who?

Charging does seem to work as a behaviour influence

The public impact
The scheme had significant impact from the outset:

• There was a 37 percent increase in the number of passengers entering the congestion charging zone by bus during charging hours in the first year.

• “Greenhouse gas emission was reduced by 16 per cent from 2002 to 2003. NOX and PM10 within the congestion charging zone decreased by 18 per cent and 22 per cent, respectively, by 2004.” [5]

• The scheme generated £122 million net in 2005/2006.

• By 2006, the congestion charging zone had reduced congestion in central London by 26 per cent from its 2002 levels.

• There have been between 40 and 70 percent fewer accidents that resulted in personal injury within the zone.

• Based on the original £8 charge, the scheme was estimated to save £2.5 million per year as a result of a reduction in vehicle mile travelled, fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.

• The scheme achieved a cost efficiency of £78 million when all costs and benefits were considered.

• The congestion charge boosted sales of hybrid cars.”

London’s congestion charge

It may be only 33p per journey but that isn’t the point<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>-  it’s a 20% increase. Imagine doing that journey twice a working day – that’s hell of a travel cost hike over a month / year. Imagine your food or mortgage costs going up that much.  Yet your wages?</span>

And for why?  To sit in an ever lengthening polluting queue at least once a day .

The point here is that the service recieved by the customer has got worse, yet that customer is forced to pay more for it way over RPI .

It’s not in London btw, it’s in Kent .

Brexit bonus innit?

Also its basically a monopoly.

It’s free for me 🏍

Dartford Crossing basically serves London (of course London ceases to exist on 29th March 2019) – but effectively it reaches about 90 minutes journey time out from the centre, even if its called something else.

there’s also a thing called “demand management”, which is used by infrastructure operators to try and control over used services – basically it means keep putting the prices up until people change modes.

And for why?  To sit in an ever lengthening polluting queue at least once a day .

Do people stuck in traffic jams ever sit there and think that they are part of the problem? 🤔

Do people stuck in traffic jams ever sit there and think that <em class=”bbcode-em”>they are part of the problem?

Why would you think like that!! It’s so obviously everyone else who could be doing something different.

Buy a motorbike.

I hate the pay after you have crossed set up….. mainly because I’m a forgetful bugger at the best of times and after a long site visit and a hideous drive it can easily be forgotten until you see the fine come through. I’ve had 2 now…. one even after I set up direct debit as I changed the car the forgot to change the crossing details.

Im not alone in this either as other engineers from work have done the same….. hope they spend the extra revenue on bridge maintenance

Having lived 20 years next to get dartford tunnel, moving back to rural France is an incredible feeling.

Rarely for me, I’ve just finished writing a strong complaint.

To who?

to us 🙂

60p a day is peanuts chaps.

You can’t buy a cup of tea for that, crisps are now 75p a bag and a Lion Bar is 75p also.

60p indeed will add up over a 5 day period to a whopping £3.. which will buy you a coffee or tea.

20% isn’t enough IMO, commercial vehicles should be upped by £10 and private hire £10, private vehicles (excl motorbiciclettes) £5. £2.50 each way is cheaper than vvvvvv

The Severn Bridge costs £5.60 (halve that for a to-fro journey) and that’s £2.80 each way.

You need to convince me good n propers that the increase isn’t justified.

I hate this crossing with a passion. I avoid it at all costs. Came back from France on Friday and came back via the blackwall tunnel. Did the same on the way out. Often have problems getting stuck in traffic S-N (as it was on the way back)

Also worried about forgetting to pay!

It does help that I live in North London, so A2/blackwall tunnel/A12/A406 is an option for me if I’m travelling at the right time

Buy a motorbike.

On the motorbike I tend to do the Woolwich ferry. Straight to the front of the queue and on the next one. Few minutes of stretching the legs and enjoying the view while it goes across, then straight off the other side onto the north circular. Much more fun.

Out of curiosity – what are the tolls for? Are they to pay back a loan used to get it built – and when would that be paid off? Are they to pay for maintenance – and do the tolls raise enough/excess? Does it belong to the taxpayer or a private company?

It may be only 33p per journey but that isn’t the point-  it’s a 20% increase. Imagine doing that journey twice a working day – that’s hell of a travel cost hike over a month / year. Imagine your food or mortgage costs going up that much.  Yet your wages?

twice a day for a 5 day, 48 week year will be an increase in cost of £158. as this is a 20% increase, you would already be paying £790 p.a.

Assuming a 40mpg car, 10000mile p.a. at 131p/L, fuel costs are £1490.

Tax (VED) I’ll take as £140. MOT, service, tyres I’ll allow £500.

Annual travel cost, excluding vehicle depreciation or insurance £2920 rising to £3078 is a 5.5% increase. If my weekly shop went from £70 to £73.85 I’d not notice TBH.

working this out though, If I was doing this trip daily out my own pocket, I’d be getting a 125 yamaha.

Love all the people taking the piss who don’t have to use it every day.

its a flipping scandal how they an increase the price when the queues are worse than they’ve ever been. And just a note, don’t forget to pay then move house. I did and had a nice man show up demanding £750 for a £1.67 crossing that I forgot to pay

Love all the people taking the piss who don’t have to use it every day.

As opposed to people just whinging about paying for what they use.

Perhaps a charge based on occupants would be better – single occupancy penalised as the least efficient way of using the infrastructure.

Is it still free at night?

when was the last increase? It’s priced in “round numbers” so you can’t really get upset if they don’t track inflation!

20% would be 50p for me.

Out of curiosity – what are the tolls for? Are they to pay back a loan used to get it built – and when would that be paid off? Are they to pay for maintenance – and do the tolls raise enough/excess? Does it belong to the taxpayer or a private company?

It is a bit of a con really. It was sold off in the 80s as a PFI to enable the bridge to be built. The idea was that the tolls would stop when it had paid for itself, which was judged to have happened in 2002. The tolls were actually abolished as promised, and promptly replaced with a “charge”.

I simply refuse to pay 75p for a Lion bar or Twix these days.  Its frankly daylight robbery!!

I buy four for a £1 in the supermarkets and feel quite content about it. 🙂

Dartford Crossing basically serves London

Not really – most of the traffic is either between Essex and Kent, or to and from the north/midlands and the channel ports.

When I lived in Essex before the introduction of the Dart Tag, I’d never have contemplated getting a job in Kent – or shopping at Bluewater rather than Lakeside Thurrock, because of the hassle of queuing up and having cash to chuck in a bucket twice a day.

The Dart Tag improved flows, and this changed behaviours to increase demand once more, so the queues are as bad as they were before its introduction.

Price increases are the only lever that the authorities have to try to change behaviours again and improve flows until they can sort out a second crossing. Not fun for people whose lives happen on both sides of the crossing, though.

As opposed to people just whinging about paying for what they use.

Youve missed the point.  It’s about an above inflationary charge applied to a declining level of service .

Love all the people taking the piss who don’t have to use it every day.

Erm.. not sure that’s quite correct.

IMO it’s a cheap crossing, it’s not unavoidable without mass change in journey planning so yes it is a revenue capture exercise. But that’s unavoidable when you have to recoup costs for the shite that is Brexit that some of you voted for.

Can’t have it both ways, expect something means pay for it.

20% only just brings it inline with similar tolls around the country.

And.. you don’t have to use it, the choice is yours (all be it a limited choice)

So, it’s a congestion charge. On the one hand, it would appear it is currently set too low as it is failing to do its job. On the other, I’m against measures that restrict road use to the wealthy. Perhaps it should vary according to VED class?

It’s about an above inflationary charge applied to a declining level of service .

welcome to the 21st century. its gonna be a rough ride…

Well the Congestion Charge area is being expanded into the inner ring of the M25… let me clarify that, the Low Emmisions Zone.

At some point you have to expect some form of Low Emmisions charge to fall on those who live/enter that zone (not sure but some commercials already pay a levy)

And the Bridge sits on the Eastern extremity of that zone.

Only a matter of time..

Maybe the OP could try other methods of travel

I don’t actually get why there are so many queues now the toll booths have gone, anyone know? I’m not heckling here, genuinely interested

(I’d use my motorbike but it’s a bit tricky with the kids, dog, lots of kit etc)

I don’t actually get why there are so many queues now the toll booths have gone, anyone know? I’m not heckling here, genuinely interested

Major junctions, traffic moving lanes, decent change in elevation and probably the odd speed restriction about would cause traffic to back up, Trucks/coaches etc slowing down has a big impact on a busy area

Benp1 it’s I think the concertina effect of slowing traffic from 70 down to 50 (in theory) combined with the stop/go of the hazardous convoys and the multiple junctions leading up to and away from the tunnels.

The north-south direction is better as the junction density is lower north of the river and being a bridge there is no need to close it to allow fuel tankers etc to travel escorted and the traffic fans out onto multiple routes very quickly once through what was the toll plaza.

It’s mainly a capacity thing  in both directions . Going northbound, traffic splits into two just after the major A2 junction – if you have any kind of problem, however transient, in either of the ‘pipes’ of the tunnel, it immediately backs up into the A2 junction and carnage ensues. Even if there is no problem, just people moving to what they think is the faster moving ‘stream’ after joining at the A2 or trying to leave the motorway to get to the A2 will concertina the traffic to a halt back at the junction etc. Going southbound you have the A13 causing a similar issue.

Basically the current crossing can’t take the numbers. It’s not a question of poor service, just the simple mechanics of human driving behaviour.

Things like this happen quite often too – HGV drivers incapable/unaware of hazardous goods restrictions and they have to stop traffic and pull them out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3E4zycQQMY