we had our first baby 11 days ago. we went to the NCT and in all fairness a lot of it is stuff you just work out for yourself, the two things that really make it worth doing are that there are other people in the same situation who can relate to your concerns before it’s born, which your other friends can’t really, and the fact that you meet the others. all of us + 8 new arrivals met up for lunch today and it was really nice, we’re expecting to stay in touch with the rest of the group.

I personally found the local nct group a mixed bag, some lovely some not so lovely. I did make some good friends whom are still regular some five yrs on. Overall I think it was a good experience for us all, the kids love being together, some will go on to reception together.
I find it sad and rather offensive when breast feeders are referred to as nazis.

women have breasts for one purpose, to feed babies, thats the only reason.

Breast feeding was often boring, occasionally painful, helped enormously with bonding as if i could have left my boy with someone else to feed i would have, which with hindsight was not a good idea as
i did not particularly like my boy, he was an excessive cryer.
I think my attachment to my boy would have been impaired if i had not breastfed.
my experience was totally different with my 2nd child & breast feeding was actually more satisfying, this child was very calm though.
breast feeding for a year each was easy, i am happy to say the attachment i feel for both children is equal.
As a young mum, i do think that breastfeeding is not seen as the norm’ there is little support & less informed choice.

Breastfeeding is best. This much is intuitively obvious and is backed by lots and lots of good medical research.

At the risk or reinflaming the debate, I agree with this point. However, i’m not convinced that it is so much better than formula milk as the BF evangelists would have you believe, some of who give you the opinion that it’s barely a rung above chips and coke (to rehash earlier hyperbole)

The issue is that this debate is so polarised, it’s virtually impossible to have in a rational manner. Any research which supports the use of formula milk is almost inevitably commissioned or supported by a company with a vested interest and therefore always gets shouted down. And there has never been a proper scientific comparison done, rightly so, because it’s morally impossible to run such a test.

As has been stated before there probably is a link between the types of parents who want to persevere with b/f and those who can’t be arsed, and the overall outcomes for their children, but i don’t think it’s b/f or fomula that is the key factor in that outcome. To do a proper test you’d need a test group of babies from a similar demographic and then force half of them to b/f and the others to formula feed. And then wait to see what happens. Ain’t never going to happen.

In fact, as a test case my two daughters are probably as good as it gets; both brought up the same, 2 years apart, one of whom as documented above went to mixed b/f + formula at 3 weeks and formula at 6 weeks and the other exclusively on b/f for 6 months. I bet if it wasn’t for the history above you couldn’t tell them apart. It’s just no-one will ever consider a 2 data point test as being valid.

t’s just no-one will ever consider a 2 data point test as being valid.

That’s cos it’s not a big enough sample size. Loads of other factors.

We did NCT as thought that’s what you’re supposed to do if middle class 😉 well it’s an expensive way to meet people and the stuff you learn wasn’t of any use to us as the NHS hospital we used was brilliant – I suppose that’s not always the case though. Wife met loads of other Mums really quickly through various Mum and toddler type groups and made loads of friends – our NCT group didn’t really stay in touch with each other.

Oh and our breast woman was good, said can call her with any problems so that was nice.

I went to NHS classes and still speak to some of the mums 15yrs later.

Beware mixed feeding though. It messes with your supply and causes more difficulties.

This is not true for everyone as I have successfully mixed fed and I know others that have too, with no harm to their supply.

Also if you exclusively breast feed, make sure you eat well as the baby is relying on you to get all their nutrients . This is why vitamin drops are offered to breastfed babies.

My friends baby ended up in hospital on a drip because he was so dehydrated because his mum could not breast feed him, but she was so determined to ‘do the right thing’ and not give him a bottle!
so breast is not always for the best 🙂

restless +1

I have friends who have severely endangered their babies (and in fact their own) health due to the pressure on them ‘to do the right thing’ Whilst I have an opinion on which is better, the fact that breast is best is rammed down peoples throat can be very damaging.

Oh, and breasts are used for something else as well – attracting a partner (true fact….)

some of who give you the opinion that it’s barely a rung above chips and coke (to rehash earlier hyperbole)

Again, I was just discussing how social pressures can influence how people raise kids.
I was most definitely not suggesting that formula was in any way equivalent to giving kids coke and chips. And sorry again if anyone read it like that.

There is not wrong with formula.

one of whom as documented above went to mixed b/f + formula at 3 weeks

By which time she’d already got the colostrum anyway, which is thought to be one of the main benefits as I understand it. So even your two are not good test subjects 🙂

Did anyone actually read tiger’s post by the way? Amongst all this talk of breast feeding being rammed down throats and pushed far too hard, there is someone saying:

As a young mum, i do think that breastfeeding is not seen as the norm‘ there is little support & less informed choice.

Yes, I agree amongst young mums it is more unusual to breast feed. However, I would bet my bike on the fact that every midwife, health visitor etc would have advised that it was the ‘better’ thing to do. I’d also disagree on the support – from the mad old bag in the hospital ward (I think she was a senior midwife however I think I called her ‘getyourdirtyclawsoffmywifeyoucow’) treating Mrs T’s boobs as her personal milk dispensers – onwards!

Just run your eyes over these basic dos and donts..

First of all, I am not sure about nct is the only way to meet new mums. I used NHS antenatal classes, but did not stay in touch with anyone. Did find them useful though, but not as usefull as friends/family/mums.

I did try nct coffee mornings, but found them a little too middle class, if that’s the right word (I am not sure, being Dutch). I did get much more out of local mother and baby groups personally. Try a few, some are better than others.

And be honest! There are times you won’t feel on top of the world as a new parent, be honest with others so they can support you.

And on the other subject……..of breast feeding…

[TRUMP CARD] my wife was hospitalised and put on a drip because of complications caused by persevering with breast feeding. at no point did anyone tell her to stop, in fact quite the opposite, until she saw a specialist clinician who was not linked to maternity care. some might call this clinical negligence.

I ended up being admitted to hospital and on a drip when my 2 nd son was 1 month old due to breast feeding. He was also referred to a pedeatrician at about 4 months because of very slow weight gain. I am very determined (or stubborn) so my 2 nd son ended up being breasted till he was 21 months, never came near a bottle. I think if I can do it, MOST people could, some people don’t try at all, or don’t try very hard.

On the flip side, a happy mum is a happy baby, becoming a parent is really difficult and life changing, and I can imagine the whole breast feeding thing causing lots of grief could be the final straw for some mums.

Oh sorry brakes thought it was a mountain biking oriented website not a male oriented one, my mistake. ( and you wonder why no women post here) I’ll sod off back to mumsnet where I belong.

Oh and sorry domino for hijacking your thread. Do the NCt! And try to breastfeed, if you want to that is.

Just to echo some of the comments;

NCT classes are average, but very important for the social support network needed post birth.

And breastfeeding is brilliant if (a) you’re able to do it and (b) you can access appropriate support (family, friends, NCT etc) if you are struggling.

Out of interest, why can breastfeeding cause problems requiring hospitalisation?

I have friends who have severely endangered their babies (and in fact their own) health due to the pressure on them ‘to do the right thing’

Maybe they wanted very much to do the right thing themselves, rather than just being pushed around by midwives etc?

Severe mastitis was what got me admitted to hospital by my gp. Required antibiotic drip (they did not get the vain right and this drip was more painfull than childbirth!), and i was visited by surgeons on the pre op assessment ward. Got some decent advice from a pregnant auxiliary nurse in the end and ended up feeding till my son was 21 months.

And yes, it was me who wanted to do the right thing, by then no one was pushing me (quite the opposite really)…

We have just started NCT classes and I would say they are a waste of time if you want to actually learn anything useful. In fact I am in the process of trying to get my money back. Very very dissaponited.

It is all, write down your feelings, playing games and group work. But we are actually told very or learn little. Last night the only thing I learnt in an hour was how useless the class is.

Our local NHS class is run by the local Uni by ex midwifes and is much much better. They actually tell us things. The class overlaps with the NCT one and even though we have paid for the NCT we miss osme of it to attend the NHS class.

NCT class was great because of the people we met (and who three years later are still a core group we see), not because of what we learnt.

Unfortuneatly we want to learn things not meet people.

I have spoken to others now and they have said you are paying to meet people not really learn things.

Wish we had known this before hand………

NCT class was great because of the people we met (and who three years later are still a core group we see), not because of what we learnt.

*shudders*

*shudders*

What brings on the shudders geoffj? NCT introduced us to people who became parents within weeks of ourselves, we met up regularly for company / mutual support / to let the kids play together. We still do so. What do you see as negative in this?

We have just started NCT classes and I would say they are a waste of time if you want to actually learn anything useful. In fact I am in the process of trying to get my money back. Very very dissaponited.

It is all, write down your feelings, playing games and group work. But we are actually told very or learn little. Last night the only thing I learnt in an hour was how useless the class is.

Our local NHS class is run by the local Uni by ex midwifes and is much much better. They actually tell us things. The class overlaps with the NCT one and even though we have paid for the NCT we miss osme of it to attend the NHS class.

This ^^^ + I’m too old and cynical to play those sorts of games and / or enjoy the company of folk who do YMMV

FWIW, the NHS antenatal classes mrs j and I attended were excellent.

NHS class here run by a very good midwife in the GP surgery. We met people there who we class as friends 22 years ago. (So much so that we cared for one couples children while the mother was drying out for 6 months). Back in the 90’s the women who went NCT in Ipswich considered their births as flawed if they had any medical intervention! I hope they have improved since then.
We were glad of the salad tongs when ms Sandwich became stressed during birth (I wasn’t so happy hearing the shears making things bigger during a contraction).
As for:

STW on politics bad or STW on conveyor belts bad?

Much much worse, think TJ and then some!!

Well, just dragging this one back up.

We had our last NCT session yesterday, so just speaking from my experience…

Our first “facilitator” wasn’t great. No sense of humour, anti-medicalisation of childbirth, all those things I though I’d rail against when I first signed up. However, we had an email after the 1st session to say that she couldn’t do it anymore and that we’d be having a new facilitator. Which kinda figured for me. I reckon she knew that she wasn’t going to continue with it and possibly didn’t want to be there in the first place because of something going on in the background.

Anyway, our new girl was fantastic. Obviously, being NCT, she was all about the expectant mums and dads doing everything to make a natural childbirth possible – but she was completely open to everything else that might happen and that there was no wrong or right way to do things. She had an excellent sense of humour and really helped bring the group (eight couples) together really well. Our breastfeeding councillor was also really good and realistic in terms of the difficulties one might face.

She had lots of good tips, wasn’t really that “earth-mother”-ish, and always finished any bit of advice with something like “but you’ll all find your own ways to do the right things”. I think (from mrs deadly’s view) that the expectant mums had a lot of myths, fears etc dispelled and had their eyes opened a bit more.

We were lucky in that the group of people all seemed really nice, and the dads have arranged to meet regularly for beers and a chat. I might even get some wood flooring business from it. 😀

As I said previously, we don’t have any family close-by, so a support network will be really helpful for us. Overall the course left me really looking forward to the future and with far less trepidations than I had before starting it.

Best of luck to anyone going through similar over the coming months.

She had lots of good tips, wasn’t really that “earth-mother”-ish, and always finished any bit of advice with something like “but you’ll all find your own ways to do the right things”. I think (from mrs deadly’s view) that the expectant mums had a lot of myths, fears etc dispelled and had their eyes opened a bit more.

We were lucky in that the group of people all seemed really nice, and the dads have arranged to meet regularly for beers and a chat. I might even get some wood flooring business from it.

That sounds almost exactly like my experience of it. Very much worthwhile, but slightly dependent on the person leading. Ours was great. Not too hippy-dippy, great sense of humour, but calm and reassuring with it. Ditto on meeting a few good folks. One of the chaps on mine is the landlord of a nice pub in the City too, which is a bonus! 🙂

Oh, and this;

Best of luck to anyone going through similar over the coming months.

Agreed in full!

🙂

Three of ours were lawyers. Which is bound to be useful at some stage. 😆

How’s it going with the Bábóg flashy?

Is all good, thanks, Darcy! She’s starting to settle in now.

Hope yours turns out to be just as lovely as mine! 🙂

Useful topic, our first due in Feb we’ve just signed up to nct course in Jan near Stockport, good to get a bit of background from here.

Mrs King and I attended the classes and as a whole found them pretty useful and not too bad around the whole lecturing the benefits of natural childbirth. The whole episode is behind us now and little Cerys is 6 weeks old and already has dad around her pinky. Christmas is from now on going to take on a whole new meaning which I’m looking forward to immensely.

Belated congrats juanking! 😀