Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 96 total)
  • Cyclists who kill pedestrians could face tougher sentences
  • Premier Icon jeffl
    Full Member

    So article on the Beeb with Grant Shaps saying that cyclists do not face tough enough sentences when killing pedestrians.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62444889

    Am I missing something but doesn’t manslaughter cover this off already? Also why aim for this particular scenario? Figure 3 on the page below shows a total of 0 pedestrians killed by cyclists and lots of cyclists killed.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk-2020-data#other-road-users-killed-in-collisions-by-colliding-vehicle-type—numbers-and-rates

    In fact you’ll note it states, in relation to chart 4…

    Very few other road users are killed in collisions with pedal cyclists or pedestrians (5 and 0 respectively in 2020).

    Now this is only for 2020 but does seem as though Grant is at best attempting to pass a pointless law, at worst vilify cyclists.

    Premier Icon n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    Tories have no doubt decided or discovered that most cyclists don’t vote Tory.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    And that a lot of tories (along with most other people) hate cyclists. Not many are going to be against the idea. They won’t be interested in the data or how really, really insignificant it is they will still back the idea.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    He said it will “impress on cyclists the real harm they can cause when speed is combined with lack of care”.

    Expect laws regarding speed limits for bikes.

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Full Member

    DM front page article opens with words ‘killer cyclists..’
    No, I don’t read that excuse for a paper; daily front pages are part of my newsfeed.
    It’s clickbait; irresponsible drivel intended to appeal to those who are already prejudiced against cyclists and the hard of thinking.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    On the very rare occasions cyclists kill pedestrians, they already tend to get far harsher penalties than drivers.

    This is just more populist clickbait, the last desperate throes of the worst Government we’ve ever had.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    Populist ****s.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    Maybe an attempted distraction from

    Rishi Sunak tells Tory members of his work diverting public funds from ‘deprived urban areas’

    Tory leadership contender Rishi Sunak has told Conservative party members he had been working to divert funding from “deprived urban areas” towards more prosperous towns.

    The former chancellor said he had started changing public funding formulas to ensure more prosperous towns receive “the funding they deserve”.

    The New Statesman magazine, which obtained video revealing Mr Sunak’s remarks, said they were made to grassroots Tories in Royal Tunbridge Wells, Kent, on July 29, as part of his campaigning for the Tory leadership.

    Premier Icon reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    Tories have no doubt decided or discovered that most cyclists don’t vote Tory.

    That about sums it up. Play to their core, sod everyone else.

    On the very rare occasions cyclists kill pedestrians, they already tend to get far harsher penalties than drivers.

    This. If you want to kill someone then doing it using a car in an ‘accident’ is the easiest and the most penalty-free way of doing it.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    So long as car/lorry drivers who kill many cyclists every year with a weapon get equally suitable sentences -5-10 years in the jail. Prisons will soon be over loaded.

    Premier Icon RustyNissanPrairie
    Full Member

    Have you read the FB comments on the recent highway code changes? The Karens/Tory voters are gonna love this.

    Premier Icon convert
    Full Member

    That is a pathetically weak story and very poor journalism. Where was the challenge – how many cases in the last 10 years could Shapps cite a person (who was riding a bike at the time) who kills another person being given a sentence of ‘only’ two years where the judge would have prefered to give a longer one if possible?

    This is presumably just a virtual reach around for your typical Daily Mail comment writer. Tory **** politicians and, even worse, tory **** voters that they are giving a leg trembler to.

    Premier Icon hatter
    Full Member

    From what I recall, pretty much every case of a cyclist causing a fatal accident thats come to trial has lead to them receiving a significant custodial sentence.

    If the same level of judicial rigor was being applied to drivers I’d be fairly sanguine about it, but since so many of them get away with a slap on the wrist this does come across as pure red meat for the Daily Mail crowd and bugger all to do with any actual real world problems.

    Premier Icon rsl1
    Free Member

    It’s ok guys just tell them you need your bike for work and you’ll be on your way home with just a fine in no time

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    desperate headline grab by man in fear of his job come September.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I’m quite happy to get equal punishment in order to get equal rights and respect.

    The article maybe needed figures for the number of people killed by cyclists each year versus the number killed by drivers.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    3 people killed by cyclists, 112 cyclists killed by drivers, last year alone. About 1850 drivers killed by other drivers every year.

    Premier Icon hatter
    Full Member

    So they are frustrated that cyclists ‘only’ get a max of 2 years in prison.

    And yet, killing a cyclist while over the speed limit, on your phone, uninsured and stoned out of your tree only gets you 21 months.

    https://road.cc/content/news/drug-driver-sentenced-21-months-killing-cyclist-295005

    So yup, a terrible government delivering terrible policies to pander to the terrible misinformed prejudices of the most terrible people in the country in a desperate bid to distract from the fact they have no idea how to solve any actual problems facing us.

    Great

    Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    That is a pathetically weak story and very poor journalism.

    That depends whether you see journalism as:
    (a) a process by which factual information is diligently discovered, impartially presented and rationally discussed; or
    (b) a process by which media controllers push either their own political agenda or that of an invested party.

    Anyway… Tory politicians being arseholes, the media dressing them up in sensational populism, and media consumers being bigoted bell ends? Plus ça change; I give it about 30 seconds until that state of affairs comes round again.

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Full Member

    Or (c) a process in which a position is adopted which produces the best story.

    Premier Icon easily
    Free Member

    It won’t make any difference, It’s just Shapps scrabbling for something that makes him look popular.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    It’s OK they’re just in electioneering mode focused on the miserable fraction of the population that currently control their destiny’s. Its merely a demonstration of aligned hatred, gesture politics “look we hate the same outlier groups that you do” (at least the ones they can still openly admit to)…

    Considering the thread we had the other day an easy counterpoint to put to Grant would be; when will the government tackle phone use by drivers? Mobile use behind the wheel probably claims more lives and causes more injuries than bicycles ridden into Peds (?) and detection rates (anecdotally) are abysmal.

    If transport safety is genuinely something they care about, there’s some substantially bigger issues for them to tackle IMO, except of course my opinion isn’t the one that matters currently…

    Premier Icon Jingle
    Free Member

    Laura Laker wrote a well-researched article for The Guardian in 2018. It includes:

    “Simply put, a 1,000kg car moving at 22mph will have 50kJ of energy; a 15kg bike with a 70kg rider at the same speed has less than one-tenth of that. Commuter cyclists tend to ride a lot slower, though, while most drivers travel faster. The likelihood of killing someone is far greater when driving a car than riding a bike.”

    Linky (may include a request for donation): Killer cyclists? Let’s not forget the real threat on our roads

    I have checked the figures; they seem right to me.
    Even if the cyclist was nailing it at 30mph, a 1000kg car at 22mph would still have seven times the energy. A 38 ton lorry at 22mph would have over two hundred.
    1000kg is very light for a car these days. VW golfs are 1200 to 1600. Kia e-Niro is 1800 kg.

    Harrison Jones wrote an article for the Guardian in 2018. It includes:

    “In 2015, two pedestrians were killed and 96 seriously injured after being hit by bicycles. According to the Daily Telegraph, three pedestrians were killed by cyclists in 2016, with its statistics suggesting such collisions were increasing.

    More than 100 cyclists are killed and 3,000 seriously injured on British roads each year, according to government statistics.”

    Linky (may include a request for donation): Death by dangerous cycling offence to be introduced – reports

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    And yet, killing a cyclist while over the speed limit, on your phone, uninsured and stoned out of your tree only gets you 21 months.

    Which will equate to 10.5 months lock up, still at least they hit him with a long driving ban before he’s allowed on the road.(not)

    But still them hordes of death delivering cyclists hurtling around dispatching innocent pedestrians like ‘just eat’ for Death.

    Does do my head in this shite attempted to be served up.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Ah I forgot to do my usual fun fact statistic that I like to do when we get into the threat of death by cyclist for perspective.

    In 2021 there were 633 deaths due to choking not sure of the deaths caused by cyclist that year but your more likely to die due to that hobnob that you didn’t dunk enough at breakfast than by a furious cyclist.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    But still them hordes of death delivering cyclists hurtling around dispatching innocent pedestrians like ‘just eat’ for Death.

    Funny you should mention just eat, I reckon the most likely cause of 2 wheeled death round our way are the deliverooist on Heath Robinson “e-bikes”; a Chinese hub motor, all the laptop batteries you can possibly gaffa tape to a pannier and a thumb throttle, they do not pedal but they can easily top 30 uphill (in our 20 limit area).
    Essentially it’s the old unregistered/regulated motorbike thing again, except they’re delivering vital transfats to suburbia so the rozzers ignore them, that and privately owned e-scooters are increasingly all over the place…

    Its probably not bicycle collision with Peds that they need to worry about, the number of twist’n’go electrically propelled dickheads is definitely on the increase. And they’ve really not bothered to enforce/police the crap rules they put in place there either…

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Full Member

    It’s things like this make me wonder about emigrating to the Denmark or the Netherlands and taking my income tax payments with me.

    Premier Icon boriselbrus
    Full Member

    It’s fine. I’ll just claim the sun was in my eyes, the pedestrian didn’t pay tax or have a number plate and looked a bit foreign and the jury will let me off and probably buy me lunch.

    Premier Icon devash
    Free Member

    Red meat to appease their voter base. Nothing of substance to see here.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    So yup, a terrible government delivering terrible policies to pander to the terrible misinformed prejudices of the most terrible people in the country in a desperate bid to distract from the fact they have no idea how to solve any actual problems facing us.

    That needs copying and pasting to all the political threads

    Premier Icon belugabob
    Free Member

    Don’t rise to the bait – agree with cyclists having equal consequences to drivers, and that’s one less item for the bike bingo card.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    Government by bear baiting, hurrah.

    Premier Icon Bunnyhop
    Full Member

    The elderly couple on our road asked me to pop into ASDA (a shop I don’t like) and purchase a DM for them. On seeing the huge front page rant about cyclists going around murdering pedestrians, I was raging all the way back home.

    A few of my relations detest people who cycle, this kind of written rubbish just fuels their fire and I’m nearer to having a heart attack.

    Premier Icon flannol
    Free Member

    The elderly couple on our road asked me to pop into ASDA (a shop I don’t like) and purchase a DM for them. On seeing the huge front page rant about cyclists going around murdering pedestrians, I was raging all the way back home.

    A few of my relations detest people who cycle, this kind of written rubbish just fuels their fire and I’m nearer to having a heart attack.

    It’s hate speech and vitriol and really really needs to stop. When the great unwashed constantly read it they believe and emotionally attach to it

    Premier Icon jamiemcf
    Full Member

    The elderly couple on our road asked me to pop into ASDA (a shop I don’t like) and purchase a DM for them.

    I was asked to do that once, I had to stuff it into another paper to hide it in case anyone saw.

    Premier Icon Superficial
    Free Member

    Don’t rise to the bait – agree with cyclists having equal consequences to drivers, and that’s one less item for the bike bingo card.

    Yeah, that was my thinking, too. The quaint old ‘cycling furiously’ thing is stupid and in need of updating.

    Shapps is a moron but this seems like a sensible change wrapped up in some populist anti-cycling propaganda that most of his gammon fans will lap up today and forget about tomorrow.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Obviously this is mostly just a bit of red meat to throw to conservative voters. However, there are plenty of spectacularly stupid cyclists who really do deserve to be prosecuted and e-bikes/electric motorbikes will only make that worse. I’m glad this guy wasn’t killed, but he really does deserve to be prosecuted for his stupidity.

    Premier Icon butcher
    Full Member

    … agree with cyclists having equal consequences to drivers, and that’s one less item for the bike bingo card.

    It’s not the same at all though. All the legislation around driving exists because it’s an inherently dangerous activity requiring the highest of standards to prevent many thousands of deaths. The same does not apply to riding a bike.

    The narrative that drivers and cyclists should be treated equally doesn’t make any practical sense. It only exists as a means to vilify a group of people. Supporting that narrative by accepting it, is detrimental in itself.

    Premier Icon Bunnyhop
    Full Member

    After delivering the DM to the elderly neighbours (both know I cycle a lot), I made sure that they knew this was badly written. Journalism at its worst. They shyly said they only want the weekend edition because it contains The telly guide.

    Premier Icon intheborders
    Free Member

    “Simply put, a 1,000kg car moving at 22mph will have 50kJ of energy; a 15kg bike with a 70kg rider at the same speed has less than one-tenth of that. Commuter cyclists tend to ride a lot slower, though, while most drivers travel faster. The likelihood of killing someone is far greater when driving a car than riding a bike.”

    Except most vehicles (including passengers etc) weigh far more than 1000kg.

    And cows, we need to ban cows as they kill upwards of 5x the number of people cyclists do.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 96 total)

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