cyclists vs the police

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  • cyclists vs the police
  • I’m curious as to the legality/fairness of being ticketed by a Policeman who did not observe (and could not have observed) the offence in the first place… how does that work?

    The police did observe the offence. They saw the cyclist stop beyond the line. That was the offence that is being referred to here.

    The car driver may have committed an offence, it’s true. In fact, they probably did, but the policeman may not have seen this.

    Premier Icon irc
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    Obviously it’s perfectly possible for a Policeman to see a crime, radio ahead and another policeman to stop them, otherwise you’d have all sorts of madness going on, but isn’t there some inherent she said/he said thing here?

    The a huge number, maybe the majority, of non traffic cases reported by the police involve them charging someone for committing a crime not observed by the cop doing the charging. This is no different. Information from reliable witness(s) is enough. The cop doresn’t need to have seen it happen.

    gwaelod
    Member

    Wait. Then move off with the other traffic.

    Wait where? inside the ASL alongside the car? – possibly – but if you are turning right you have to get out into a stream of moving traffic.

    If you have filterd up the right you are almost stranded in the middle of the road

    Not trying to be controversial or anything but I think ASL cause more problems than they solve.

    Premier Icon D0NK
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    If someone’s in a bike box, I usually stop in front of them

    If I see someone drive into one instead of displaying my awesome trackstand skillz I’ll put my hand on their roof/bonnet to balance, wait to be challenged (I haven’t yet) and state I wouldn’t be doing it if they weren’t parked there. Bit of passive aggressive twattery but meh. In the car I’ll stop far enough back to give the car room to reverse out of the ASL, no one ever has yet.

    gwaelod
    Member

    Which given that the car driver lacked the awareness to stop in the correct position would also seem the safer place to be.

    This is an excellent point – although while filtering generally you can’t stop behind anybody as it’s nose to tail motor vehicles – you have to stop alongside.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Donk wrote:

    In the car I’ll stop far enough back to give the car room to reverse out of the ASL, no one ever has yet.

    I do that too. It does sort of make them look a bit “stranded” 😆

    Why didn’t the cyclist just cycle off? It’s not difficult to lose the Feds!

    With the 5000mile head start you should be able to out run the ‘Feds’, especialy as they’d need to sort the extradition paperwork as well, the police might be harder though.

    That’s always been a bug in my brain. Not been chased, but I really would be surprised if they [bike or car] can keep up with a fit MTBer hurtling down stairs, dropping off obstructions etc etc etc.

    a) you are not as gnarr as you think you are
    b) what’s to say the copper isn’t fit, assuming it’s a self selecting sample (those that want to ride a bike all day) of an already fitter than average section of the demographic.
    c) even the least technicaly competent person in the world could probably ride down some steps.

    Unless you are Martyn Ashton doing that gap jump/hop between multi storey buildings in Spain.

    lardman
    Member

    Peyote – Member
    Why didn’t the cyclist just cycle off? It’s not difficult to lose the Feds!
    That’s always been a bug in my brain. Not been chased, but I really would be surprised if they [bike or car] can keep up with a fit MTBer hurtling down stairs, dropping off obstructions etc etc etc.

    Anyone ever managed it?

    errr…. well maybe. You have to know your way around pretty good tho’ The rossers can easily come out in force. A handy change of coat/jacket helps too. Or, just turn your coat inside out/take helmet off etc:

    Wouldn’t do it now mind, as i’m respectable init.

    IanW
    Member

    Advance stop zones and the feeder lanes on the left of queing cars/trucks etc are the work of madmen and should be ignored.

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    I have seen this in London, cyclist just in front on ASL gets a fine, lorry taking up the ASL does not.

    A busy junction where someone in the past has been killed by a lorry turning left, so the ASL is completely justified here.

    Policeman was not at all interested in explaining why the lorry driver was not at fault even though he had a pack of cyclists questioning him.

    And he would have seen the lorry drive into the ASL as he was waiting at the junction to catch any cyclists who did edge in front of the ASL box.

    amedias
    Member

    The a huge number, maybe the majority, of non traffic cases reported by the police involve them charging someone for committing a crime not observed by the cop doing the charging. This is no different. Information from reliable witness(s) is enough. The cop doresn’t need to have seen it happen.

    yeah, I get that, that the first Policeman counts as reliable witness, but I meant in terms of positive identification, obviously with cars it’s easier, they have number plates but if the cyclist had simply said “no i didn’t stop in front of the line and I don’t accept the FPN” what is the next step at that point?

    Can they then be compelled to identify themselves for future action? arrested on the spot? (what for?)

    Not being awkward as I think if he did commit the offence he should get the fine? (but obviously we don’t know all the circumstances)

    just curious more than anything…

    Premier Icon bails
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    I have seen this in London, cyclist just in front on ASL gets a fine, lorry taking up the ASL does not.

    A busy junction where someone in the past has been killed by a lorry turning left, so the ASL is completely justified here.

    This is where it’s even more peverse.

    “A cyclist was killed here by a left turning lorry so we’re here enforcing the law. Now stop rolling over the line and wait on the left of that left turning lorry or we’ll give you a fine. It’s for your own good y’know”

    Premier Icon Scapegoat
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    If the cyclist chooses to contest the facts/evidence he can simply fill in the section on the rear that elects to take it to trial. If he fails to give sufficient details for the service of a summons (ie fails to identify himself) then under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act he can be arrested in order to ascertain his identity.

    amedias
    Member

    thanks scapegoat, that’s what I was after, didn’t realise there was an option on the back like that.

    chowmein
    Member

    I never go through a red light but sometimes just go onto the path and around, do people get fined for doing that ?

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    If “the path” is a pedestrian-only footway (i.e. not shared use) then yes they do.

    I wouldn’t go up the inside of another cyclist turning left. I wouldn’t go up the inside of a car turning left. I sure as hell wouldn’t go up the inside of a truck turning left. I’d either do what I could to SAFELY and LEGALLY get in front of them and then turn left in front of them, or I’d just wait.

    Why is it so hard for some people to do that?

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    I wouldn’t go up the inside of a car turning left.

    The funny thing about ASLs is that, legally speaking, you can only enter them through the feeder lane, otherwise you are crossing a solid white line.

    And of course 99 times out of 100 the feeder lane is on the left in the danger zone.

    Premier Icon D0NK
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    Why is it so hard for some people to do that?

    you sit in an ASL lorry enters the ASL next to you with his left indicator on, what then?* I see your point and agree, but drivers can and do put cyclists in dangerous positions it’s not all “stupid cyclists” putting themselves in danger.

    *One course of action would be to back up behind the lorry but that would be tricky and take more time than half a pedal stroke to get you ahead of the lorry (and far enough ahead to take a good look at the driver and call him a few choice names)

    And of course 99 times out of 100 the feeder lane is on the left in the danger zone.

    the ones going between the left filter lane and the ahead/right lane can be pretty scary places to be too.

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
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    @thisisnotaspoon

    From what I’ve seen most bikepolis don’t now how to change gear quick, let alone ride down a set of steps at speed while setting up for the turn at the bottom.

    In addition they ride shite bikes. “Smith and Wesson Tactical Police Mountain Bike”, anyone?

    I’m not saying “I know I can outrun a bike policeperson”, but I seriously think many people can. Though, as you say they would need to know where they were going, and as lardman pointed out, a change of clothes would be needed if one was to leave the area undetected.

    This is all idle speculation, mind. As I mentioned the other day I’ve never been detained or arrested etc and in fact would love to work for the police.

    Part of this was influenced by watching a police helicopter and several cars entirely fail to apprehend a teenager the other day on foot, in Kettering.

    B_Leach
    Member

    I never go through a red light but sometimes just go onto the path and around, do people get fined for doing that ?

    I’ve both seen and told off a police cyclist doing just that. Turns out it’s quite satisfying to shout “That’s a £30 fixed penalty for what you just did, I hope you give yourself a stern talking to”

    He didn’t look pleased.

    qwerty
    Member

    Anyone know which police force this was? CoL?

Viewing 22 posts - 46 through 67 (of 67 total)

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