Cyclists insurance. After judge ruling

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  • Cyclists insurance. After judge ruling
  • stoddys
    Member

    Any one else thinking about getting insurance following this ruling by a judge?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7166305/Cyclist-Robert-Hazeldean-left-bankrupt-yoga-teacher-Gemma-Brushett-knocked-London.html
    (No slating it’s the DM, just an example)

    Is bcf still the best option?

    Premier Icon muddy@rseguy
    Subscriber

    BC or Cycling UK membership gives you extensive third party liability cover. Cycling UK also gives you legal advice too (I think BC does as well but need to confirm).

    Another thing is to check your Home and Contents insurance policy as this may (should/most probably does) also give some degree of personal liability covers which covers you for riding a bicycle.

    more info here: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/do-cyclists-have-to-have-insurance-357751

    big_n_daft
    Member

    The judgement suggests it would be wise for pedestrians to have insurance, he got the full legal bill because he didn’t counter sue

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Home contents always has personal liability, which will cover you for such incidents.
    There’s already a thread (commuters beware, I think) discussing that case btw, so best keep this one to insurance ideas or it’ll get closed, I suspect.
    So, home contents, or one of the cycling bodies, if you haven’t got it (why wouldnt you if you have bikes?!).
    And if something unfortunate happens, lawyer up in case the 3rd party do.
    I have a strong suspicion that phishing calls come in from ‘where there’s blame’ arseholes when you report something to scumbag insurance companies (they pass claimants details on) and that’s why this claim culture is arising in the UK now.

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Subscriber

    We’ve had Cycling UK family membership for years to cover commuting. Now also in BC for CX league and mtb leader qual. Just struck me – how would they decide which insurance company pays? We haven’t deliberately insured twice, just joined organisations for different reasons that happen to offer similar cover as part of the membership.

    aP
    Member

    We’ve deliberately chosen to go with Cycling UK because we both have issues with the culture within BC.

    Premier Icon branes
    Subscriber

    Cycling UK all the way as it actually advocates for MTBs.

    BC is essentially just a racing / Olympic track feeder organisation. I’m a member of BC as I race a bit, but I’d rather not be as it doesn’t really do anything for the wider cycling world IMO.

    I’m also covered by my home insurance. Interesting point on which one you’d choose to be liable if the worst happened.

    Premier Icon muddy@rseguy
    Subscriber

    Frankly I’d go for the Cycling UK insurance as their legal cover is done via solicitors who specialise in cycling cases:

    https://www.cyclinguk.org/incidentline

    (Note to the mods, other solicitors are available)

    Premier Icon Rich_s
    Subscriber

    I’m also covered by my home insurance. Interesting point on which one you’d choose to be liable if the worst happened.

    If you were making a claim, you can choose whichever policy you like to claim on. Let’s face it, you’re probably more likely to choose the cycling one.

    When you start the claim, one of the questions you’ll be asked is along the lines of “Do you have any other policy covering the incident?” and you’ll normally find you also have cover under your household contents. The insurers will then follow the principle of contribution which, broadly speaking, will mean they share the payout although one of them will “lead” the claim.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Note that the £100k bill is for legal costs, not liability (which was quite small).

    So I think third party liability insurance would not cover that cost. I believe you’d need additional legal costs cover. IANAL. Might be fine, but I wouldn’t assume it is without making sure.

    I’ve punted an email round some relevant Cycling UK people to get clarity on whether the membership policy covers this, but we only got a little way into the conversation before the end of Friday intervened 🙂

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Any one else thinking about getting insurance following this ruling by a judge?

    I think I’ll just keep to my strategy of no crashing into anyone, ever! 😆

    Pawsy_Bear
    Member

    Always had insurance. Now with BC. Got knocked off last year. Solicitors were great everything was straight forward. Remember they also arranged physio straight away, doctors report, bike to repair. Only had to deal with my solicitor. Total bill to other side was just under 9K. Didn’t see solicitors costs. Got good advice and was looked after. Accidents happen on and off road. You could, I’m no expert here, go to any no win no fee lawyers to take on your case. I don’t really understand why the cyclists in the incident didn’t seek legal advice and engage a solicitor to represent him? The I didn’t want to take part in the claim culture is irrelevant.

    kerley
    Member

    I don’t really understand why the cyclists in the incident didn’t seek legal advice and engage a solicitor to represent him? The I didn’t want to take part in the claim culture is irrelevant.

    Agree, but then so does the cyclist now I imagine

    deadkenny
    Member

    Checking my contents insurance it says not just the liability cover (up to £5m in case) but defence costs though unspecified and through agreement with them in writing. I also have legal cover separate to that as an option but that’s more for me making claims and defence in non liability cases. I notice my liability cover excludes e-bikes though. They’re lumped in with motorbikes, cars etc.

    Though maybe he didn’t have any contents insurance at all.

    Sounds like this was a mess of a case that was one sided and he had no defence and didn’t do a counter claim (even though had a lawyer). The counter claim cost even without insurance might have been much less than the result.

    “Ms Brushett’s lawyers told the judge that she could not remember anything about the crash due to ‘post traumatic amnesia’.”

    Hmm, yeah right.

    “‘Mr Hazeldean is clear that she was looking at her phone as she was crossing the road,’ she continued.

    ‘Three other witnesses said she stepped out or that the cyclist could not avoid her.

    ‘I find that she was looking at her phone and I accept the account of Mr Hazeldean that she turned and went back towards the central reservation.'”

    Sounds like all her fault, but 50/50 ruling has gone because he provided no defence or counter claim.

    Oddly for Daily Fail, it’s a bit of a BC advert. Though I’m not going anywhere near the comment section. I can feel the hate just by clicking on the link.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Maybe we need to have an “inbuilt” 3rd party insurance policy for all. An small increase in NI contributions should pay for it.

    Premier Icon nparker
    Subscriber

    Cycling UK here – joined last week after reading about this case as I ride in London most week-days and it a rare day where I don’t witness a pedestrian step into the road whilst looking at their phone. This decision is so wrong on so many levels – lawyers and insurance companies must be loving it.

    greyspoke
    Member

    @bez

    Note that the £100k bill is for legal costs, not liability (which was quite small).

    So I think third party liability insurance would not cover that cost. I believe you’d need additional legal costs cover. IANAL. Might be fine, but I wouldn’t assume it is without making sure.

    I’ve punted an email round some relevant Cycling UK people to get clarity on whether the membership policy covers this, but we only got a little way into the conversation before the end of Friday intervened 🙂

    The £100k was the other party’s legal costs payable as a result of the litigation and its outcome. It would be covered by liability insurance, as would the your legal costs for defending. What is not covered by liability insurance is legal costs associated with making a claim if you are injured. However, if that claim can be put forward as a defence (ie “I have also suffered damge and you are partly to blame so I don’t actually own you anything/ owe you less”) then that would be covered by liability insurance as it is a defence.

    Mostly an irrelevant point, but how on earth can you be allowed to incur £100k in legal fees and spend 4 years of your life on this when the damages awarded were only going to be £4k (maybe £8k as I think she was 50% liable)?

    Premier Icon winston
    Subscriber

    Because the law is an ass(hole)

    Unless you are a lawyer.

    The recent Reeth lectures were a case study in why the above is true – total asshat giving the lectures and mostly total asshats asking the questions afterwards.

    fossy
    Member

    Been insured for over 30 years through BC.

    Got sued myself recently. Knocked off my bike from behind, I and bike went flying. Bike hit another cyclist. Other cyclist sued me. Driver legged it. Other cyclist not insured, nor did he call police/ MIB etc like I did. 5 years later it was settled (most likely against me) – shit happens.

    Get insurance if you haven’t already got it.

    Pawsy_Bear
    Member

    Can only echo what Fossy says. The whole lawyer fee is just one aspect of an accident. You could be liable for damages etc which could come to a lot more. Currently touring across Europe. Cost me £90 for 3 months insurance, £1 a day Dogtag. I’m also BC insured. The extra insurance covers repatriation, medical and indemnity etc.

    BC Commute membership specifies £15 million including legal costs

    If you are involved in an incident causing injury or property damage that was (or is alleged to have been) your fault your insurance cover may indemnify you in respect of the legal costs of defending a third party claim and any resulting damages awarded against you. Cover is up to a limit of £15 million(6) and British Cycling will pay any insurance excess that applies.

    This is re-assuringly clear, Cycling UK doesn’t appear to mention legal costs as well, would be useful to know for sure.

    Am drawn towards the BC membership if only because I race occasionally also…

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    I think it unlikely that were you insured by C-UK it would even get to court, so the legal cover point might be moot.

    You are expected to contact your insurers as soon as you know there might be a claim against you so they can manage and mitigate such costs.

    If would be nice for them to be as explicit as BC.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    FYI Cycling UK are now looking at making this information on the website more explicit.

    And I’ve had it informally confirmed that their cover should extend to these legal costs as part of third party liability. (I am just the messenger here, I offer no legal advice 😉 )

    Thanks Bez.

    Actually looking at BC’s ‘racing’ memberships, they seem to offer less insurance than the ‘commute’ membership, and are less explicit about the legal costs. Need to ask for some clarity there also.

    EdIt: Spoke to someone at BC, they say their digital team will be updating insurance benefits for race memberships to explicitly state legal fees will be covered. Will wait and see. Pleasantly surprised how approachable and pro-active they (appear) to be.

    BC here for years and I can not praise them enough. Ride membership. I have unfortunately used it in anger after being hit by a car about 5 years ago or so. British Cycling were brilliant (I was dithering whether or not to claim). Its the Physiotherapy I also received which was worth mentioning.

    Its nuts on the roads and unfortunately you need it these days.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Semi related but I recently got M&S contents insurance to cover my bikes and they also include personal liability cover.

    Reading through the small print, they make it very clear that they will not cover any liability claims that arise from an accident whilst the insured was riding an ebike!

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    cyling uk site seemed to have ground to a holt the first few times I tried. I’d love to see how much traffic this case has generated

    Premier Icon superstu
    Subscriber

    cyling uk site seemed to have ground to a holt

    My BC membership has just run out and rather than renewing with them I wanted to sign up to Cycling UK given they seem to care more for “normal” cyclists and advocate mtb. I had terrible trouble trying to sign up over the weekend, eventually giving up on the third attempt and sending them a message pointing out their website was not playing nicely. They replied yesterday to say that they had a “250% increase in web traffic over the weekend” which effectively crashed their site.

    Incidentally they assure me the website is now fixed and I became a member this morning.

    deadkenny
    Member

    Semi related but I recently got M&S contents insurance to cover my bikes and they also include personal liability cover.

    Reading through the small print, they make it very clear that they will not cover any liability claims that arise from an accident whilst the insured was riding an ebike!

    All content insurance provide liability insurance, and excluding ebikes may be common (same on mine through Nationwide) as they consider them the same as powered vehicles like motorbikes and cars.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    Thanks all, i’ve just taken a family policy with Cycling UK.

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