cyclist jailed

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  • cyclist jailed
  • mikey74
    Member

    Deserved everything he got.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    He killed someone through stupid actions deserves it.

    mrmo
    Member

    reading one comment you do have to wonder if there is more to the story than the report states. But yes if you kill then you should be punished, you can't say that drivers go to jail but cyclists don't.

    Gooner
    Member

    he killed someone through his own selfish actions while riding on a footpath – both illegal

    definately deserved being jailed – just because he's a cyclist doesn't mean that what he did was any less wrong. If he'd been in a car or on a motorbike he would have been charged with vehicular homicide (in the states) and probably been put away for longer

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    I disagree – he was treated too leniently.

    soobalias
    Member

    deliberately mounting the kerb is not an accident.

    got off lightly.

    what happened to life for a life?

    Smee
    Member

    Deserves more than he got TBH.

    julianwilson
    Member

    seems fair enough. I like the picture of 'deadly' cyclists in the article too.
    [edit] …actually seven months? If he really was riding like a demon perhaps he should have got more: the article just quotes what the vicim's daughter said about his maner of riding, not any other witnesses.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    He was treated very leniently, I'd say, though how much does the typical driver who kills someone get?

    On average, three pedestrians die each year in Britain in collisions with cyclists. Just ten per cent of those accidents occur on footways.

    Doesn't really fit with the "OMG bikes on pavements!!!" attitude often seen on here and in the press. Especially when you consider the "40 pedestrians […] killed annually by motor vehicles on footways or verges".

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    though how much does the typical driver who kills someone get?

    Probably actually more than that on average. Though that's not really the point – people who kill with cars are also treated too leniently in general, particularly when as in this case there was gross negligence (as mrs aracer pointed out regarding an article in the CTC mag, you shouldn't be locked up for years just for making a small mistake when you weren't doing anything else wrong).

    nbt
    Member

    Quote from the sister of the chap jailed in the comments

    Firstly this artical is not right he did not run a red light then mount the pavement he was acctually forced on to the pavement by a RED car, an his intention was to join the road again after he went round the corner. as usual the press have fabricated the story to sound bad ,my brother was a hard working lad who ride to work daily four mile and back each day unlike alot of young people these days.

    – Sarah James, devon

    Not to say I disagree with the sentence though

    IanMmmm
    Member

    Seems quite simple to me. DO NOT RIDE ON THE PAVEMENT unless it's clearly marked at a combined cycle and pedestrian route. If it is, control your speed. I don't know the facts of the case so I can't comment on the sentence, but it seems lenient if it's as the press described and harsh if it's as the guys sister describes in that he might have been hit himself if he hadn't avoided the car. He should have stopped as soon as he was forced onto the pavement though.

    uplink
    Member

    The daughter of the gut next door to me was killed by a someone who wasn't paying attention & wandered into the hard shoulder on the A1M

    He got 6 years
    IMO the prick on the bike should have got a similar sentence

    thomthumb
    Member

    There is only careless or dangerous driving, which the Crown Prosecution Service thought was too minor.'

    this is a strange quote from the CPS – why is killing a ped more serious if it is a cyclist than a car driver?

    but no need to be on the pavement – when i occasionally do it – i make sure i am slow and courteous.

    clubber
    Member

    careless or dangerous driving

    This isn't usually what they'd charge a driver with for death – that's "Death by careless or dangerous driving" IIRC though often the charge does get downgraded.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Not convinced that statement from his sister changes much – if he was forced onto the pavement he should have stopped, or at least slowed down a lot.

    MrSalmon
    Member

    There is only careless or dangerous driving, which the Crown Prosecution Service thought was too minor.'

    this is a strange quote from the CPS – why is killing a ped more serious if it is a cyclist than a car driver?

    That quote doesn't show that's what they thought, does it? Rather that because it's so rare they had to hunt about for a suitable law/charge for him.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Seems quite simple to me. DO NOT RIDE ON THE PAVEMENT

    Or, do not ride on the pavement carelessly? Riding one a pavement is not intrinsically dangerous.

    clubber
    Member

    Presumably driving carefully on the pavement is ok too then?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Presumably driving carefully on the pavement is ok too then?

    Why? Bikes are not cars…

    porterclough
    Member

    If I knock someone over while jogging what's the sentence?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Presumably driving carefully on the pavement is ok too then?

    If you can do so without getting in people's way and get completely out of the way when necessary then sure, why not.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Pedestrian: 12 stone @4mph squishy
    Runner: 12 stone @10mph squishy
    Cyclist: 13 stone @15mph squishy
    Fast cyclist: 13 stone @20mph squishy
    Car: 1 ton @30mph armoured

    If you had to group these into two groups, for road and pavement, where would you draw the dividing line?

    IanMunro
    Member

    The daughter of the gut next door to me was killed by a someone who wasn't paying attention & wandered into the hard shoulder on the A1M

    He got 6 years

    You don't have a link to this story in the press do you?
    I've never heard of a driver getting a sentence of that magnitude for driving without paying attention.

    enfht
    Member

    It must be heart-wrenching to have lost a relative and see the culprit get such a paltry sentence. A friend's Dad cycling on the road was run over and killed by a 4×4 last Christmas eve, the driver drove off as he "didn't realise" he hit anyone even though he drove over the guy's head. Cycling on roads is far too dangerous for me to run the gauntlet, so I ride on pavements where I feel it's safe for me to do so. I don't ride around blind bends at speed and I avoid pedestrians as much as I avoid road vehicles. I run the risk of a £30 fine and minimise the chances of a road vehicle killing me, I don't believe I'm putting pedestrian's lives at risk by doing so. The majority of motorists are totally blind to cyclists, which isn't my fault and is beyond my control. So therefore I ride on pavements wherever I see fit.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    enfht's stance is supported by the Home Office in their advice to police on when to issue the £30 fine.

    Badger
    Member

    IanMunro – I'd guess he wasn't paying attention and ended up killing someone – but the police would still charge him with "Causing Death by careless or Dangerous driving" as not paying attention is "careless" so thats probably what he got sent down for.

    If he'd just had a minor accident and no one was hurt, or even just spotted by the police wandering onto the hard shoulder he'd probably have been done for "Driving without due care and attention"

    Premier Icon Haze
    Subscriber

    Loving Dave Hedgehogs comments, didn't think people like that still existed.

    uplink
    Member

    Sorry not got a link to it – it was 7 or 8 years ago

    IIRC he had the truck on cruise control & piled into an overturned car + a van & another car that were [helping the folks in the overturned car] on the hard shoulder
    I think 4 or 5 people died

    Badger
    Member

    I ride on the road a lot – commute every day, I ride very defensively when it comes to cars.

    As for pedestrians – they are far worse than cars for not seeing cyclists, maybe because they think cyclists are not a threat, every day at least one pedestrian does the leming impression and throws themselves across the road without seeing me. I've perfected the one handed salute and abuse whilst flicking the bike around them!

    I don't see the need to ride on the pavement on most roads (the busiest A road there may be a point if there isn't a cyclepath) but I can understand enfht's point – not sure I'd take my wife (who's less confident on a bike) on some of the routes I regularly ride.

    uplink
    Member

    As for pedestrians – they are far worse than cars for not seeing cyclists, maybe because they think cyclists are not a threat,

    That's because most people [even cyclists when walking 🙂 ] use mainly hearing & a bit of peripheral vision to cross most roads – it's only when something catches their eye or they hear something that they then investigate further

    hora
    Member

    He killed someone. The sentence befits. His sister saying he was he jumped onto the kerb to avoid a car. Why didnt he hop straight back off then? Same if you jump a red light, you take your chances.

    Its not 'us and them'. We all too use the roads as drivers. I'd like to see tougher punishment for mobile phone use and death by dangerous driving. The lad last year who got off with community service for plowing into a girl on the pavement though- I dont get it. He was hooning down the pavement. Why did he get off?!

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    I see plenty of people driving on the pavement, lots of houses near me permanently have off street parking that is actually just a massively wide pavement.

    So on average cyclists kill 3 peds a year 10% of those on the pavement, so 1 pedestrian every 3 years(ish) killed by cyclists versus 40 a year by cars on the pavement/verge. Brings it all into focus a bit more don't it.

    Assuming the rider wasn't run off the road by a car and immediatly and unavoidably hit the guy, a jail term sounds fair, possibly leniant but plenty of car drivers get leniant sentences too. Not surprised the press didn't mention the red car tho, wonder how much bearing that had on the incident.

    enfht
    Member

    To their credit two CSO's let me off a fine in January, but I don't think the copper/CSO driving their van was too impressed when I diligently rode off up the road blocking them getting past for a good half a mile just to prove a point. 😐

    hora
    Member

    Ps. enfht if you feel the road is too dangerous, walk on pavements. Its not fair on pedestrians having to cross roads and keep alookout for potential other hazards on the pavement as well. Last week a lad was run over and killed by a truck on my commute-route. These things happen. I'm not going to inconvenience others though if I felt the roads were too unsafe to ride on.

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    Pedestrian: 12 stone @4mph squishy
    Runner: 12 stone @10mph squishy
    Cyclist: 13 stone @15mph squishy
    Fast cyclist: 13 stone @20mph squishy
    Car: 1 ton @30mph armoured

    whether the person is squishy or not is pretty irrelevant, death is more likely to be as a result of pedestrian's head hitting very not squishy pavement or curb. base don that logic you need to look at each of those cases and consider which ones are likely to result in a collision which whould end up knocking someone over.

    The speed of a cyclist makes that significantly more likely as they have less chance of avoiding the pedestrian and if they do hit, the greater speed / energy is fairly likely to put the pedestrian on the floor.

    To be honest if a jogger knocks someone over and kills them they should be in serious trouble anyway IMO.

    Oh and i don't know waht your bikes are made of but mine are fairly hard with looks of pointy sticky out bits like bars etc.

    uplink
    Member

    Don't forget to add in mobility scooters/karts @7mph 🙂

    coffeeking
    Member

    Pedestrian: 12 stone @4mph squishy
    Runner: 12 stone @10mph squishy
    Cyclist: 13 stone @15mph squishy
    Fast cyclist: 13 stone @20mph squishy
    Car: 1 ton @30mph armoured

    If you had to group these into two groups, for road and pavement, where would you draw the dividing line?

    Mores to the point, if you were to suggest anyone could use the pavement "carefully", I'd say that 15mph is not careful on a normal pavement and neither is 30mph. Cars at 5mph are fairly safe to be hit by, mainly because they have the brakes to stop almost instantly at those speeds and their large flat surfaces make something to fall onto, rather than be knocked down by. So if you want to be pedantic, the poster said "carefully" and your comparison did not include "careful" speeds.
    If you'd ever been hit by a large cyclist at 20mph I'm fairly sure you wouldnt say they were at all squish, or that they caused little damage. Cars arent overly squisy, but the majority of their panels will bend considerably with little force – this makes them softer at low speeds and harder at high speeds as you go "through" and hit supports/engine etc.

    If you were to look at the amount of kinetic energy the vehicle brings to the table as an indicator of how much damage it would cause;

    The average car at 5mph – 0.5*1250*2.2*2.2 = 3025
    The 100kg rider at 20mph – 0.5*8.94*8.94*100 = 3 996

    Heavy bike rider at a fair whack carries more energy than a careful car.

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