Not me this time, Mrs MTG on her way to work.

Approaching this roundabout from the left on the B4190, intending to go straight on up the A456.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3809062,-2.2963574,129m/data=!3m1!1e3

She got on the pavement at the point where the road bends right, intending to ride straight on along that short dead end road, along the pavement under the trees, then to join the pavement/cycle lane that runs alongside the A456.
The pavement alongside the A456 is dual use cycle/footway. I’m not sure exactly where the signs for the end of the cycleway are, but we are not disputing that the part by New Road is just a footway.

A car came out of New Road on the left and hit her as she crossed New Road.

So, two thing I could do with clarifying.

I’ve heard that where a minor road meets a major road at a T junction, if there is a pavement alongside the major road, then pedestrians have right of way over cars on the minor road, as if the pavement was continuous.
Is that true?

The ACPO issued guidelines that cyclists should not be prosecuted for cycling on the pavement.
Does that mean that if a cyclist is hit by a car while cycling on the pavement, the car driver is responsible as if they had hit a pedestrian?

Of course, the answer to question 2 will depend on the answer to question 1, as to whether she was on “the pavement” or not.

I’m always worried about Mary (for that is her name) getting hurt on a bike, as she’s got titanium pins in both femurs from two bad breaks two years ago.

She’s got bruising to her left thigh, probably from the bonnet of the car, and painful bruising on her abdomen, probably from the handlebars, which would have been worse without the bar ends.
I took her to the local Minor Injuries Unit. They got an ambulance to take her to Worcester for further examination.

The front rim is obviously badly buckled. I haven’t checked the bike over properly yet.

You mean the pavement 20ft odd from the end of the minor road coming from the top of the pic?

Now, IANAL and I’m just guessing/remembering badly, but I think point 1 is true. The 2nd point I think is true in so much as a cyclist shouldn’t be prosecuted as long as they aren’t a danger to anyone, there may also have been a clause about the road being busy or dangerous too.

Unfortunately I think you might struggle to not get blamed for this one if I’ve got the facts right. If the car came out of New Road from behind that hedge (Which I assume is still there), neither of people would have to be going very quickly at all for there to be a crash. Someone walking certainly would of been able to poke their head around the corner to check it was clear.

FWIW (And this isnt helpful at all really) I think I would of just stayed on the road and taken the left hand junction rather than the preceding pavement. Would of avoided the nasty blind t junction and surely not any slower or less safe?

Good luck with the insurance and I hope the Mrs is OK.

Cynic Al, Yes that’s it.
The pavement goes in more or less a straight line, although partly hidden by the trees in that picture, while the road bends towards the roundabout and back again.
this means that as the pavement crosses New Road, it is actually about 20′ from the junction itself.

I would of just stayed on the road and taken the left hand junction rather than the preceding pavement

That’s what we both normally do;
Left at the New Road junction, then immediate right.
She had a later start than normal this morning though, so the road was a lot busier than she’s used to and the cars approaching the roundabout were overtaking and cutting back in, so she felt safer on the pavement.
I’m a bit faster and more confident/arrogant, so I would have held primary and made them wait behind me.

I’m a bit pissed off with it all because she only got on the pavement through fear of someone else hitting her on the road, which would have been entirely their fault, and now she’s been hit by a car and feels it is partly her fault.

I’m struggling to understand what happened. Are you saying she was crossing New Road here when the collision occured?

If tightywighty’s pic is right, and she was coming from the left as we look at it, then she really should have stopped for a look I reckon – it’s blind. I’d say it was her fault if that’s the case

Yes, exactly.
From top left to centre right in that picture.
The car came from her left (head on/top right in that picture).

Surely the kerb across the end of the pavement on the LHS of the pic above marks the end of the pavement? So Mrs MTG should have stopped, looked both ways before continuing?
The hedge makes advance viewing of traffic up New Lane pretty much impossible. So to get a clear view you’d need to stop at the kerb and look up the road,
Given the choice I’d avoid that bit of pavement entirely and continue on the main rd turning into New Lane and then carry on if its clear to cross it. The rider has more visibility and any oncoming cars have a greater chance of seeing you.

First off: I hope she’s okay.

And onto business..
How did the collision happen? Did she get to the edge of New Road, stop, look to her left, see a clear road and ride out? Or did she ride out in front of a car that was very close to where she was crossing?

On the pedestrian right of way thing:
1-She’s not a pedestrian
2-It doesn’t give you free reign to step out in front of cars. The highway code (guidance, not law!) passage says:
“170
Take extra care at junctions. You should

-watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way”

That junction looks very tight, as if you’d have to come to a complete stop and poke your head around the corner before knowing it was safe to cross. Ideally the pavement would be further towards the main road, to open up the visibility a bit.

Edit: The road there clearly has priority over the pavement.

If it looked like this: then you could argue that the pavement/cyclepath had priority.

Off to Worcester to pick her up now.
Will reply later if I get a chance.

Sorry – I should have also added, I hope she’s okay! 🙂

Hope she’s OK.

She needs to give way when crossing a road like that, luckily the crossing point is near to a junction so the car was probably slowing.

Hope she’s OK also but I do think she is at fault from what you said – if she had right of way then anyone pulling out from a drive/minor road etc onto a major road would have right of way – clearly not right.

any witnesses?
I’d say it’s a case of one person’s word against another.
what are you hoping for as an outcome?
I’d chalk it up as a lesson to be more careful and move on.

TBF if your wife came off that path in front of a car travelling along new road where there are no road markings traffic sinage to give right of way to the path then your wife is at fault not what you want to hear but its the way it is, the fact the path is 20′ and not 200′ from another junction is not applicable.

Also guessing the car was on the correct sideof the road and your wife got infront of it without being able to stop it really shows she was travelling too fast herself, I cant see any way the driver would be at fault here

Another one who hopes she’s ok, and that it doesn’t knock her confidence too much

I’m afraid that I think that the road markings would indicate the driver wouldn’t expect to stop until the give way line though – though obviously his vision would be very limited coming out of new road.

Hope she is well…

Again it reads like she may be the one “at fault” (IMO) and its doubly harsh because she was trying to avoid an incident… I can see my missus doing something similar such is her fear of traffic…

But MTG Whatever you do do not bring the whole “Who’s Fault” thing up with her, not if you value your own life, She may well arrive at he same conclusion on her own, But no woman likes having her mistakes pointed out no matter how diplomatically you do it… EVER!

Healing Vibes etc…

Really hope she’s OK, never a fun thing to happen 🙁

from the sounds of your description I really don think she helped herself much and she *should* have stopped/checked before pulling out, but hindsight is a wonderfult thing.

BUT… being that that road is a dead end, I would think it’s only likely to be used by people that either live there or know it well, and if I were regularly driving down that road knowing that there is a blind pavement exit there I would be creeping past it every time being wary of peds/kids etc as it’s blatantly obvious it’s a dodgy crossing from either side.

Not saying she’s without blame but surely a regular user of that road, which they surely must be as it’s a dead end so has no ‘through traffic, would approach that hedge/crossing with a little more caution?

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – Member

Yes, exactly.
From top left to centre right in that picture.
The car came from her left (head on/top right in that picture).

Okay- if it had been me riding, I would have considered that to be crossing a road, not riding on a continuing pavement and as such it would be my fault for not looking/stopping.
Though hedges obscuring the view around junctions/crossings are a menace.

Hope she’s okay though, we all make mistakes so hopefully it doesn’t knock her confidence too much.

Mapview suggests the road bends around to the right (access for those few houses and their drives) in which case car from new road should have been giving way but markings on streetview and tightywighty’s pic suggest new rd it the “through” road and the short street is a turn of so car had right of way but due to that well dodgy pavement/road/bush combo should have been wary of pedestrians and taking it very slow – I’m surprised there isn’t a stop or giveway sign there. (actually thinking about typical UK road designs I’m not surprised at all)

Pretty bad pavement/road design that, I’d say everyone* should be taking care at it and planners should amend it.

Hope mrs mtg is back on her bike soon.

*pedestrians, runners, parents with prams**, kids, cyclists and of course being the ones who cause most of the damage drivers.

*short of doing a 3 point turn before the junction and reversing you pram over the road it’s going to be tricky to look for cars

Pretty bad pavement/road design that, I’d say everyone should be taking care at it and planners should amend it.

+1

Hope your wife gets well soon.

I’d be sending an email to the council. Although she was on a bike, its easy to see this happening to pedestrians/joggers as well given the visibility at that junction, plus the driver will likely be concentrating on the give-way markings 20ft further on, rather than the blind hedge/pavement he can’t see.

Hope she’s OK. I think you’re referring to Rule 170 of the HC in your OP – specifically

watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

It doesn’t seem relevant here though, as both car and “footway user” were on the same road.

As a driver in this situation I would approach the junction very slowly (because there is a very similar one near where I live) but equally as a pedestrian (or cyclist on the footway!) I would also stop and look at this (or any) junction.

The car clearly has priority here but either way, as a matter of common sense rather than legally as a vulnerable road user a cyclist (or ped) should always be putting their safety first anyway.

If you went ‘legal’ – be aware the driver/drivers insurers may want to claim for any damage to the car from you.

At best its 50:50 so I wouldn’t pursue it.

Was your other half cycling off a footpath when this happened?!!

Then the driver may pursue you…..

Thanks for all the replies.
Mary’s back from hospital now and insisted on cooking my dinner so that I will have time to fix her bike before I go to work so she can cycle to work herself tomorrow. 😀
No serious injuries, just bruising. The front rim’s scrap, but the bike is otherwise OK.

Although that junction is only a couple of miles from home, it’s not one I often cycle past, so I’m not really familiar with it.
Looking at the pictures, it’s definitely a blind corner from both directions, and cycling, or even stepping, out in to the road from behind that hedge, without stopping, is taking a bit of a gamble.

so she can cycle to work herself tomorrow

hurray!

Glad shes ok but to start a topic ‘can we get any money out of this situation’ was the wrong angle. Shouldn’t it have been ‘had an accident- can the driver be prosecuted’ I might feel warmer to your situation.

Hope the Lady is not too bruised, wishing her a speedy recovery.
Don’t forget to buy her lots of chocolate, or whatever it is you people like. Twigs?

I thought the pedestrians had priority over people turning into the road they’re crossing, not cars travelling on that road?

pedestrians yes.

Then again if you run out into the road or ride on the pavement I think you can be chased for any damages.

Glad shes ok but to start a topic ‘can we get any money out of this situation’ was the wrong angle. Shouldn’t it have been ‘had an accident- can the driver be prosecuted’ I might feel warmer to your situation.

What?

Glad shes ok but to start a topic ‘can we get any money out of this situation’ was the wrong angle. Shouldn’t it have been ‘had an accident- can the driver be prosecuted’ I might feel warmer to your situation.

er… Good job that only seems to have happened in your head and not in reality then.

At no point did the OP ask about claiming off the driver, nor did he seem to be interested in prosecuting, came across to me as more a question about working out who was in the wrong from the legal POV.

Anyway, good news she isn’t too badly knocked about and glad to see it doesn’t seem to have knocked her confidence!

Glad she’s ok.

In terms of the pedestrian priority thing, I think it only comes into effect if the pedestrian is already in the road. Meaning that if a car is turning into a side road and a pedestrian is already crossing the car turning in has to give way to the pedestrian and wait.

Hope that makes sense.

eckinspain – Member
Glad shes ok but to start a topic ‘can we get any money out of this situation’ was the wrong angle. Shouldn’t it have been ‘had an accident- can the driver be prosecuted’ I might feel warmer to your situation.
What?

Basically I agree with Hora (cant believe I said that)the OP’s original thread reads can i claim off a driver for my wife cycling out from behind a hedge into the road.

We all hope mrs MTQG is alright but to even look for an opportunity in so clear a cut case is pretty low, unless Mr MTQG is looking more from the angle ‘does the car driver have the right to sue us for damages to their vehicle’ in which case i would think they have a pretty fair case

Sorry to hear about your wife’s accident. Hope she is ok, and has not lost her confidence.

This though, is exactly the reason why I don’t want my boys (11and 13) cycling on the path, it would be all too easy to forget to look when crossing a minor road this way. You now are not cycling on the major road next to the path (where you would have priority over traffic from a minor road, but would still look), but you are now CROSSING the road.

And so should,

Stop Look Listen…. live.

Sorry, sadly her fault I think and the driver may claim for damage? Hope she has insurance, hearing this I am glad I sorted out my sons ride membership so he is covered.

Get her straight back on, and perhaps get her to do some training with an instructor? I did a course with my son before he started riding to school, really was good.

Simone

Dunno what OP some of you lot are reading, but I can’t find the “can I claim money off the driver?” one that’s being referred to, perhaps you’re thinking of a different thread?

On the facts, I’d have to agree with the majority on this one – your missus appears to have ridden across a road without looking to see if it was clear, and it wasn’t, and there was a collision as a result.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery (of injuries, not damages / compo!)

Basically I agree with Hora (cant believe I said that)the OP’s original thread reads can i claim off a driver for my wife cycling out from behind a hedge into the road

Not how I read it at all….

Graham: If there is any cost (in terms of damage to the car) that you’re liable for then the third party liability part of your home insurance should cover it. Otherwise if your wife is a BC/CTC member then their third party cover should pay out.

tighty wightys picture has a no entry/forbidden for cars and motorbikes

Was the car exiting from the place it was not meant to be?

“Except for access” I think the sign says.

Not much use after the fact, but this is where BC/CTC membership is very useful. You can hand things over to their legal services in the event of an incident.
Also, having been through the process myself this year, I was advised not to post anything publicly on social media or the web, to avoid any legal complications.