Hi all, just after a bit of feedback please.
As some of you are aware, I organise an annual MTB ‘challenge’ event in West Yorkshire, to raise funds for a couple of local causes – a cricket club and the Scouts. We’ve been going since 2004, so we’re well-versed in the organisational side of things, but now, more than ever, I’m conscious of the perceived ‘value’ offered by the entry fee – especially compared to other types of cycling event.
Our fee has risen from £12 pre/£15 on the day back in ‘04, to the current £20 pre/£25 on the day in 2022. For that we have always provided: a t-shirt, a certificate, a ‘goody bag’ (usually containing branded sports nutrition products), pre-event refreshments, 4 on-course feed stations (with bananas, biscuits & electrolyte drinks), on-course first aid/recovery, fully signed and marshalled challenging routes, free parking, free pre-event professional bike fettling, an athletics-style large timing clock, post-event refreshments and free toilet facilities. The only thing we have ever charged for has been bacon butties (with locally sourced bread and bacon, not supermarket products), which were still only £1.00 each until I had to raise the price to £1.50 last year.
In comparison, Road/circuit races are now £15-£20 for as little as 30mins action, Sportives can be anything from £30 to £70 or more, just for riding around a sparsely way-marked road circuit and CX races are around the £20 mark for 45 mins (plus a lap) in a park or school field.
Do the MTB ‘challenge’ events offer good value? Are they too expensive for what you get? Are they too cheap for what you get? What do you consider a fair outlay for such an event?
The object of this is an attempt to set a fair price for this year’s event, that reflects the current financial hardships, but that most folk would consider to be a reasonable outlay for what is provided within the entry fee.
Please bear in mind that my particular event is NOT a commercial event, is purely a fund-raiser and that no individual has ever made any kind of profit from whatever income is generated.
Thanks for your time.

25 including a Tshirt, feeds and all the rest sounds incredible value to me.  I’d be good for that without the Tshirt really.  What I care about most is being able to buy nice food/drinks afterwards.

£20/£25 is good value when you see what other events charge, and you seem to provide alot. Why not drop the t-shirt to save some more cash for the local groups ? I think just knowing funds are going to a ‘group’ rather than a comercial organisation is a big driver. Is it the Mary Townley Loop you organise – been meaning to do that !

That sounds like great value to me. In fact, if you put up some details I might even enter myself.  I’d easy go twenty quid, even without the t-shirt.

In comparison, Road/circuit races are now £15-£20 for as little as 30mins action, Sportives can be anything from £30 to £70 or more, just for riding around a sparsely way-marked road circuit and CX races are around the £20 mark for 45 mins (plus a lap) in a park or school field.

I’d be wary of comparison based on time. Essentially each of these things is part of a day, riding your bike, with others. And hopefully, going home physically drained having given it your all, whatever that may be.
Some will want a competition, others the distance, others time, others to run themselves to the red line in 20 minutes.
It takes all sorts.

£95 for a local(ish) enduro and you get nowt ‘extras’ on top of the actual event.
£25 sounds like a bargain. You’d struggle to buy a t shirt for that.

I’ve paid everything from £10 to £200 for a bike race and never once felt short changed or didn’t get VFM

Save yourself some money and time, do away with the T-shirt.
I’ve won / been given countless dozens of event T-shirts, the vast majority would just go straight to bike cleaning duties.

As others have said, drop the free T shirt. Lots of other events are doing the same.  If folk really want a commemorative shirt then design it, stick it up on a web shop and let them order it themselves.

Agree totally about the shirt. The last thing I want for the environment is a cheap T shirt I’ll never wear.  A water bottle on the other hand is always a nice to have. Anyway, £25 is the least I’d expect to pay even without a freebee. Signed up for two offroad sportif events in 23, one in this country and one in the Netherlands and both are around the £40 mark with no ‘gifts’ Both commercial though.

I quite like a free t-shirt, it makes me feel like I’m getting something of value for the money. Paying for merchandise on top always feels a bit of a con to me. As long as its not something you’d be embarrassed wearing, some are badly put together and don’t get worn once.

Anyway, overall, I agree that sounds very good value in this day and age.

£95 for a local(ish) enduro and you get nowt ‘extras’ on top of the actual event

Around the £50 mark in these parts.

The Megavalanche is good value i think.

85 Euro to do the race plus qualification race.
7 days lift pass 72 Euro
Usually get some free stuff, food at the finish line and a beer in the event village.

Agree the OP’s event sounds decent value, also agree a water bottle is better than a tee.

Thanks for the replies so far, much appreciated.
One thing that I forgot to mention in the original post, is that I currently have a small number of event sponsors. For an agreed fee, they get exposure on our website < http://www.cvmbc.co.uk >, our Facebook page, on the certificates, on any entry forms and posters – and, crucially, on all the t-shirts. I’ve always said that if I can cover my (relatively not insubstantial) costs with sponsorship, then it’s up to me to generate the fund-raising aspect by my own endeavours. ie, I don’t treat any sponsorship purely as a hand-out, I use it to help generate greater income through the quality/popularity of the event itself. Given that the greatest degree of sponsor exposure is on the t-shirts, I’m currently loath to drop them as I fear that would lose me the sponsor income.

What’s the event? Think I miss out on lots of stuff and w.yorkshire might be near enough for me

Edit – what are the chances of that? Your replied already

I currently have a small number of event sponsors. For an agreed fee, they get exposure on our website < http://www.cvmbc.co.uk >, our Facebook page, on the certificates, on any entry forms and posters – and, crucially, on all the t-shirts.

The latter being largely irrelevant if they’re going straight to the bike rags pile…
Also, who actually reads what’s on a T-shirt and (especially outside of cycling) understands what any of the sponsors mean. I couldn’t tell you what half the sponsors of World Tour race teams do in spite of watching months of racing every year!

“I couldn’t tell you what half the sponsors of World Tour race teams do in spite of watching months of racing every year!”

My wife couldn’t understand my excitement a few years ago when we walked into a shop to spec a new kitchen and there were BORA signs everywhere and these flashy downdraft hobs with built in extractor fans. I totally wanted one especially as there was some kind of draw to get VIP tix for a tour stage if you put a deposit down…….then I saw the price. No wonder Sagan drives a Porsche.

But we do shop in Jumbo whenever we are in Holland…….

A similar sounding event in FOD was £22/£26 last year I think. T-shirts were extra. Included in the price was cake, bananas and drinks at feed-stops and at the end. Price feels about right to me, providing you can get enough entries to make it viable.

Essentially each of these things is part of a day, riding your bike, with others

Pretty much this, I don’t pay for sparse road markings and feed stops that I probably won’t stop at, I pay to be on the same roads /tracks as hundreds of others and be in an event.

What I pay reflects how much I want to be there, I wouldn’t pay big bucks for an otherwise perfectly good event in a nondescript area, but will gladly pay a Cairngorms/Lake District/somewhere remote tax.

Agree re:T-Shirts, I like them and might buy a good one, but get more value out of a brightly coloured buff or water bottle.

The issue is many people who participate do not know the cost or all the logistics involved in putting events on, so they don’tknow why events go up.

What I’ve seen over the years is the problem with pricing any event, is that a couple of quid rise can have a big effect on participant numbers. As riders often assume organiser’s are just trying to make money.

Over the years I’ve seen regular racers stop racing as events have gone up 1 or 2 pound to cover overheads otherwisethe raceswould be cancelled. These riders then say they can no longer afford to race due to rising entry costs. Its usually riders who have the latest model bike every year and all the expensive kit, but they complain about a couple of pound extra.

Not really sure what you should charge as I’ve never done that type of event. but looking at your prices, that seems very good value for money to me for what you get.

What I’ve seen over the years is the problem with pricing any event, is that a couple of quid rise can have a big effect on participant numbers. As riders often assume organiser’s are just trying to make money.

Over the years I’ve seen regular racers stop racing as events have gone up 1 or 2 pound to cover overheads otherwisethe raceswould be cancelled. These riders then say they can no longer afford to race due to rising entry costs. Its usually riders who have the latest model bike every year and all the expensive kit, but they complain about a couple of pound extra.

The road side of things mostly gets around that because so many riders are heavily invested in the points system so they need a racing licence, they need to do the races to get the points and there’s not really any way around that. MTB and the non-competitive side of things don’t have that fallback.

Yorkshire MTB marathon is about £45 and you get to ride, not much else.

The dirt knocka at cannock is the same.

Yours is a bit shorter so I’d pay 30-35 easily. I’d not give out freebies. Sponsors giving good discount vouchers is nice. No waste on tat you don’t want. Goodie bags that just go in the recycling seem wrong these days.

Free food at the end also nice.

I’ve done your event a couple of times plus all the others in the area – great value imho, although like everyone here is saying I really don’t want a goody bag or T-shirt. Everything else (parking, feed stations, post ride food) is really appreciated – thank you for all your work organising it.

Don’t think you can really use races as points of reference for the cost – just a very different calculus. The cost of some short race events with zero extras might not even register to guys who are deep into that particular discipline.

The biggest draw for me wrt value is the route – this is a tricky one as it’s not something that you can easily change or improve in response to feedback, given the requirements for legal riding. I did another event in the area with my kids this year and honestly the route was shite – that sounds unfair as I am sure if they had better bridleways available, they’d use them. But at the same time it had me wondering if the organisers were really thinking about the route or just laying out the same thing they’d done 20 times before.

i would happily pay your entry fee’s, sounds like a bargain.

To echo others, a t-shirt isnt something i would be interested in. My number board is always the memento from the event, so a good quality one of those far out weighs a t-shirt or goody bag.

And again, as mentioned, the route would be what draws me in first, then the support around it, which sounds like you have nailed with regards to food, pits area, feed stations etc.

I dont mind paying for events in places i cant normally ride. So Milland and Minehead southern enduro champs appeal to me. Whereas paying nearly £50 to ride trail out the back of QECP that i can ride for free has zero appeal. (southern fairy here for geographical reference).

I wish more events like yours existed!

The dirt knocka at cannock is the same.

….with the free parking, camping, toilets, staffing, timing and insurance All of which has to be paid for.

I admit there’s some events that take the pee, but not many. Having been involved in the organisation of events I can see where the money goes, and also how it’s kept down by volunteers. Taking down race tape is one of the longest least rewarding jobs I’ve been involved in. I’ve no issue paying a couple of quid extra for a Marshal’s coffee and bacon roll amongst the other things it takes to run an event. Often peoples free time is the main reason an event will or will not take place.

Where i struggle is some of the things like the SDW event. I looked at one recently.

Start point, finish line and 4 feed stations… £57.. That just seems like a lot of money to me for what is essentially a ride people can and do do day in day out. Nothing closed, nothing new, just the SDW… I’m sure logistically it’s a fair bit of work… but in terms of pricing… it seems a LOT.

Hi @TheSanityAssassin,

My wife and I mostly ride just the two of us but think your event is great and always look forward to it. Price seems very reasonable considering the charitable aspect. IIRC the Sam Houghton thing in the Lakes is a fair bit more to enter and that’s a good ride too.

Given how much great riding we can easily do by ourselves out the door, we do sometimes question why bother paying anyone anything at all but usually do one or two such events per year and always enjoy the day out, it gives us a different route and experience.

Thanks!

I’ve done CVMBC a few times and would echo the comments above – it’s good value at £20, and would be at £25. I’ve no interest in the t shirt (I use my most recent one as a rag).

The Strathpuffer were giving you the option to have an event t shirt or plant a tree when you bought an entry, the price was the same. I thought that was a great idea. Those that want a t shirt get one, those that don’t, don’t.

: a t-shirt, a certificate, a ‘goody bag’ (usually containing branded sports nutrition products), pre-event refreshments, free pre-event professional bike fettling, post-event refreshments

like others I think it’s easy to drop the t-shirt and I’d question if any of the above are bringing you “sales” or just diluting the surplus for the charities?  However if you just drop them without explanation you will get complaints from people who have come to expect them.

4 on-course feed stations (with bananas, biscuits & electrolyte drinks), on-course first aid/recovery, fully signed and marshalled challenging routes, and free toilet facilities.

those seem like the core essentials

free parking,

is that in a designated area or just that there free parking for anyone who is near the start?  Our club has been discussing how to encourage more sensible approach to the environment and one option is to introduce a fairly high parking charge – say £10/car so that families and people who car share are paying £2 a head more (not much), people who use public transport or cycle (!!) are “saving” and those who insist on driving alone are paying a premium.  There are possible unintended consequences of dodgy alternative parking which is why we are still discussing rather than doing!

an athletics-style large timing clock,

it can be tempting to ditch stuff like that which comes with a price tag and no way to judge value.  Don’t – it’s  this sort of stuff that makes the difference between an event and a route you could ride any weekend.

your challenge is how to drop stuff without the social media whingers saying the event is not as good or is a rip off etc.  that’s all about the marketing – “we’ve been looking at how to reduce waste” and “in the current ecconomic climate we want to keep entry fees low” are good stories to tell.

some suggestions if you want do some of the above and/or put prices up:

1. offer a standard and a “vip” price; you’ll soon see who wants to pay say £10 more for a T-shirt, certificate, bike fettling etc

2. offer an early bird discount £20 for people who enter in the first week, £25 after that, £30 on the day.

3. offer a discount for people who have entered previously / last year – they are the ones who complain about price rises not people who have no preconception!

I think you’re offering incredibly good value for £25.

Please bear in mind that my particular event is NOT a commercial event, is purely a fund-raiser and that no individual has ever made any kind of profit from whatever income is generated.

Great stuff.

If it’s a non-profit for charity you could try a ‘minimum donation’ of £25. Talk about the cause and you’ll find some will donate more and the average entry donation might be >£35, but you’re not pricing out some riders who see it is great value where many other events are just too expensive to justify. I’ve run a non-profit event this way for a few years and it’s been inspiring to see the kindness some people have shown towards the cause (PM if of interest).

Can you shift sponsorship to the race numbers and say something like “we can offer an event t shirt but tick here if you’d rather not receive one so more of your entry fee goes to our good causes”. Admittedly more faff on the organisation but seems like the t shirt isn’t that essential for many people.

If it’s a non-profit for charity you could try a ‘minimum donation’ of £25. Talk about the cause and you’ll find some will donate more and the average entry donation might be >£35, but you’re not pricing out some riders who see it is great value where many other events are just too expensive to justify. I’ve run a non-profit event this way for a few years and it’s been inspiring to see the kindness some people have shown towards the cause (PM if of interest)

I second this – let folk choose their entry price above a set amount. I will happily contribute extra if it’s clear that it’s going to charity. Plus doing it online is much easier than at the event.

Sounds great value to me (and I’m also interested in doing it), but as others have said I don’t want a t-shirt, certificate or goodie bag. However, I’d be happy paying £25 for entry including food and I think the ‘tick here for entry/food only and more cash to good causes’ option is a good one.

+ whatever for scrapping the T shirt, if just for the sustainability aspect

No need to provide a goody bag unless the contents are provided by sponsors and there’s no cost to you.

I couldn’t tell you what half the sponsors of World Tour race teams do in spite of watching months of racing every year!

I recently found out that my new double glazing will have Decueninck profiles (frames), which is strangely satisfying.

I suppose I should get QuickStep flooring when I re-do the bathroom as well.

also agree a water bottle is better than a tee.

Not another sodding water bottle, also £25 sounds fine.

+1 for Poly.

A great route and great grub at the feed stations the rest is a waste.

Over the years I’ve seen regular racers stop racing as events have gone up 1 or 2 pound to cover overheads otherwisethe raceswould be cancelled. These riders then say they can no longer afford to race due to rising entry costs. Its usually riders who have the latest model bike every year and all the expensive kit, but they complain about a couple of pound extra.

Those riders are bored of racing / looking for an excuse to stop.  The entry fee isn’t usually the most expensive bit of a race / event.  Travel, accom, food all cost more – of course they’ve all gone up in price too.  Easy to blame the entry fee – especially if you don’t think you get something in return.

Our club has been discussing how to encourage more sensible approach to the environment and one option is to introduce a fairly high parking charge – say £10/car so that families and people who car share are paying £2 a head more (not much), people who use public transport or cycle (!!) are “saving” and those who insist on driving alone are paying a premium. There are possible unintended consequences of dodgy alternative parking which is why we are still discussing rather than doing!

I hate hidden/extra fees. Booking fees, parking fees, camping fees.

In some cases, yes it’s an optional extra.

But where it is unavoidable to do these things* (what if everyone decided to get the train to your event only to discover it was 4 bikes per train?) I always feel like it’s easyJet pricing, low headline figure, pile on the extras once people have mentally committed.

* Sunday I’m doing an xc race. It’s fairly local, maybe a 40 minute gentle ride there. In fact I do so semi – regularly to ride there recreationally.
Would I entertain the idea of riding there, for a race, no chance. Water, clothes for afterwards? And most importantly If I don’t finish the race barely able to pedal another hundred meters, I’ve failed to accurately judge my effort.