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  • CX brake question
  • The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Picked up a new, (used), CX bike the other day as I plan to race this coming season. Whilst everyday riding is great the brakes feel dreadful.

    Its got Tektro Onyx brakes and normal, (non carbon), rims, and 105 STI brakes/shifters.

    Are Froglegs or TRP brakes better, or have I been spoilt by the XT disk brakes on my fat tyre bike, and canti's are just frightening to use?

    clubber
    Free Member

    You've been spoilt ūüôā

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    I've played about with the brakes on my Spesh Tricross a lot. I tried Froglegg style cantis. Loads of rim clearance but a wooden, low power feel to them. Then some Medium profile cantis. Bit more power, bit less rim clearance, then tried mini V brakes. ALmost enough power but had to be set extremely close to the rim. It's a simple study of mechanical advantage. The "men" will be along shortly to tell you how that have hands that will crush 6" cast iron pipe like a cornetto and how cx racers never stop, they only slow down but the bottom line is, the brakes are pants. That's why I've treated myself to a frame with disc mounts and I'm swapping all the kit over.

    RestlessNative
    Free Member

    Just be thankful you don't have judder too

    clubber
    Free Member

    The thing you have to remember is that for CX racing you don't really need brilliant brakes so they are as they are ‚Äď eg they work but not like mtb brakes.

    But with the popularity of CX bikes, most people aren't actually using them for CX racing so the brakes come up short and that's the issue.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Can kinda agree with the racing element, but then that argument was also spouted when the move to disks from canti's was made in the MTB world cup.

    Trouble is I enjoy riding my CX bike on the singletrack but wet roots and rocks are scary enough on thin rubber with no suspension, let alone with bad brakes to boot.

    clubber
    Free Member

    Agreed ‚Äď the frog legs I used first were so bad that I kept getting completely dropped by all my mates on any descent because I had to ride on the brakes the whole way down so that I could avoid the sudden turns‚Ķ

    Changed to Avid shorties which were definitely better along with a very low straddle cable but still just ok.

    Recently swapped to mtb v-brakes and travel adaptors and they're brilliant ‚Äď easy wheel locking if I want. Since I don't really race my CX bike (when I did, the cantis were fine FWIW) the new brakes make a big difference for the better.

    simon1975
    Full Member

    I've used Tektro Oryx with Fibrax pads on Retard alloy rims and they were superb both with 105 drop levers and flat-bar levers. I had some of those fancy integrated straddle bridges from Avid though ‚Äď they might help as they fix the straddle length/angle. They were as good as disks for stopping 35mm rubber until the fork/brakes fill with mud.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Interesting Simon, many thanks. I will investigate the Fibrax pads.

    What are the Avid straddle bridges?

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    What's meant by the straddle cables is that by using a seperate straddle yoke and straddle cable rather than the preset units, you cen drop the yoke as low as possible. This gives more power by exploiting the mechanical advantage as mentioned above. More power but less rim clearance.

    simon1975
    Full Member

    Mine are like this:
    http://www.bikepartsplace.com/discount/brake-straddle-cable-b/

    My pads are Fibrax ASH701 but I can't find a link to those any more.

    missingfrontallobe
    Free Member

    I had those brakes on a CX bike I ran for a year a few years ago, they were terrible.

    Have you tried to adjust the straddle cable? I found by running the cable lower (closer to the tyre) there was a better feeling at the brake levers, can't say the power altered much but the set up felt better.

    Sheldon Brown explains about canti brake geometry.

    yoda
    Free Member

    Swiss stop green pads are what you need.They wear quick but grab hold of a rim like no other canti pad.

    Coleman
    Free Member

    I also run Tektro Oryx canti's on my cx bike and they work fine, even with the standard straddle cable and cheap Ashima cartridge pads. Good modulation and reasonable power.
    With careful set up can even work judder free, which seems to be a perennial problem for many on here

    aP
    Free Member

    I'm using the Tektro wide cantis ‚Äď fine with an old style straddle cable set up long. I can lock up the back wheel no problem and get some serious stopping with the front too. Just put swisstop geen pads on ready for the 26th.

    qwerty
    Free Member

    more mud n grit on the rim = improved braking ‚Äď with added grinding paste!!!

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Right, I'll try some super duper brakes combined with a low low straddle cable before ordering a new CX bike with disks on it. Thanks for valuable input guys.

    MrSparkle
    Free Member

    The thing you have to remember is that for CX racing you don't really need brilliant brakes

    Seen the Three Peaks?
    Got mini v's on mine. Sh1te.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    I've got Oryx and Frogglegs for the same bike, stopping about the same.
    The Tektros have useful V type cartridges so are easy to set up.
    The Frogglegs are lighter? and are set up with molgrips and a cold chisel.
    CX courses are on the whole non technical and wide open so you can corner wide and fast. While racing, cantis will never seem an issue.
    The 3 Peaks is a whole other story, and not anything like regular cx racing.
    Dunno if it's in my mind but the salmon pads seem better than the normal black ones.

    pistola
    Free Member

    I used to have Shimano 550 low-profile cantis, which were not very confidence-inspiring so I got two sets of Tektro CR720 which, when set up carfefully, are MUCH better, almost as good as road caliper brakes.

    robdob
    Free Member

    Clubber ‚Äď which travel adaptor and v brake combo do you use? I was thinking of changing the canti's on my Tricross as soon as I get it but the "Problem Solvers Travel Agents" are ¬£17 each so I didn't want to spend ¬£34 plus the v brakes then find out they werent much better.

    clubber
    Free Member

    They're MUCH better! I'm using Travel Agents with xt vees.

    You can kind of see them here (click for full size)

    SprocketJockey
    Free Member

    I run Tektro RX5 Mini Vs with cartridge pads. Stopping power is great if they are set up properly, but like someone else said, the do need to be set close to the rim, which can lead to some noise, but they do clear fairly quickly.

    iainc
    Full Member

    wot Pistola said. awesome brakes, in wet or dry

    robdob
    Free Member

    I used to have Shimano 550 low-profile cantis, which were not very confidence-inspiring so I got two sets of Tektro CR720 which, when set up carfefully, are MUCH better, almost as good as road caliper brakes.

    That's not saying much, is it?

    Clubber, those XT brakes, which are what I was thinking of buying, look a bit chunky on the bike. I wonder if Avid brakes might be a little svelte. Any more pictures?

    epo-aholic
    Free Member

    TRP's are very, very good but not a patch on good vee's or discs……you'll get used to them!

    iainc
    Full Member

    robdob ‚Äď my Tektro 720's will easily lock front or back in the dry without pulling to the bars, and that's with 12.5 st of me and 32 tyres on.

    pistola
    Free Member

    I used to have Shimano 550 low-profile cantis, which were not very confidence-inspiring so I got two sets of Tektro CR720 which, when set up carfefully, are MUCH better, almost as good as road caliper brakes.

    That's not saying much, is it?

    OK, just to clarify, the Tektros are almost as good as dual pivot caliper brakes, which have been good in my experience.

    Eggbox
    Free Member

    Dual compound koolstop pads are good on my CR720s but they are still crap in the grand scheme of bicycle braking. I really notice how the brakes are worse when its very dry due to the rims getting coated with dust and debris.

    My next CX bike will have discs ūüėÄ

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/canti-geometry.pdf

    this will tell you what you need to do.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Holy crap, that's just about the definitive answer then! Nice link

    thesurfbus
    Free Member

    I have a pair of Travel Agents and some Cantis/Road Discs for sale here!

    stever
    Free Member

    I'm a bit stick in the mud about cx brakes, without having a great deal of experience/evidence ūüôā
    My pompino has V brakes with proper V levers and it's fine on singletrack. Haven't ridden it with cantis, but I still ride my wife's MTB occasionally with cantis. You just need to adjust your expectations a bit. That said I did borrow a bike with disks for the 3 Peaks and still got a bit pumped at the bottom of the big descents.

    robdob
    Free Member

    Thesurfbus ‚Äď I'll take the travel agents if they are still available.

    thesurfbus
    Free Member

    robdob ‚Äď if you can paypal to the address in my profile, I can get them posted 1st class tomorrow.

    clubber
    Free Member

    robdob ‚Äď Member
    Clubber, those XT brakes, which are what I was thinking of buying, look a bit chunky on the bike. I wonder if Avid brakes might be a little svelte. Any more pictures?

    I can get some more if you want but they look alright IMO ‚Äď another pic here: http://www.everytrail.com/picture/vieworiginal?picture_id=1816640

    Wu-Tangled
    Full Member

    having had cable discs and cantis on cx bikes, IMO, the best is a good V brake and Travel Agents to get the pull right.

    This is proving the best set up I've had on a cx bike. Love it.

    Work better than V's with v levers on mtbs.

    clubber
    Free Member

    Here are the pics:

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