Have been researching steel and ti custom frames, both UK sourced.

It works out roughly £1250 vs. £1750 steel vs. ti, the steel would be cheaper but I’d probably go a bit fancy with the paint job.

Not tooooo fussed about weight, I think either way the complete builds would work out close enough to my current gravel bike that I wouldn’t notice, and in winter mode I’d have guards etc. on anyway so it’s a moot point really.

I’m just wondering if I’d regret going steel for a bike that would take a pasting on the winter roads? I’m thinking corrosion etc. Have been advised against stainless for my weight/riding and am happy to listen to builders advice.

There must be plenty of steel winter bikes out there so any owners care to comment?

Ta

Ti all day long. I have two Ti frames, one is from 1997, the other 2020. They both have the same amount of rust and paint chips; none at all. My steel road bike (2012 and used through about 6 winters) has numerous chips, some slight external rust and, more worryingly, is always a tad rusty around the BB shell threads when I change the BB. Nowt in it for comfort though.

Bumped in case I still have to (not up-to-date with current forum events…)

Thanks downshep.

My steel road bike (2012 and used through about 6 winters) has numerous chips, some slight external rust and, more worryingly, is always a tad rusty around the BB shell threads when I change the BB.

On one hand, my OCD would probably have a fit at any sign of rust, I guess I would need to reassure myself that a bit of rusty water does not equal frame corroding to death.

On the other hand, if I’m being honest with myself, I don’t think I’ve ever owned a bike for 6 years so maybe it’s not a problem…

Since you’d need to paint steel but not Ti, you really need to compare the actual price of painted steel vs Ti/

And based on a couple of hundred quid different, Ti every day.

But, unless you’re a particularly weird shape, I’d just buy a Planet X Ti gravel bike for the same money – except I bought a carbon Free Ranger c/w Force 1 instead 🙂

Since you’d need to paint steel but not Ti, you really need to compare the actual price of painted steel vs Ti

Agreed, my prices above are painted steel v.s. non-painted Ti.

I guess I should factor in my complete colour blindness and lack of taste, which will no doubt result in a horrible looking frame once I’ve gone mad with the custom paint options…

But, unless you’re a particularly weird shape, I’d just buy a Planet X Ti gravel bike for the same money

Not a weird shape, just other weird requirements that nothing but custom will address 😎

“Titanium… they always crack”

I disagreed with that phrase right up until yesterday evening. Bought a load of new parts to refresh my Airbourne Ti road bike (Audax type thing) as it hasn’t been used for a few years. Giving it a final wipe down and what do I find… a crack! about 80mm long; top and bottom of left chainstay. Gutted!!

Just ordered a replacement in steel. Never had an issue with a steel bike!

You already know the answer but you are now trying to justify spending an extra £500 on a ti frame.

Yeah… I saw that Enigma frame thread earlier…

Manufacturer offers five year warranty which is good for everything except “defects as a result of crashes, collisions, improper use, neglect, deterioration of surface finish, structural modification or improper installation of components” which would hopefully cover me if it just cracked through use over time.

2 moots here, old one and not so old one, ti for me all day long. the workmanship on those 2 frames is out of this world, both 2nd hand as no way would i pay the new prices…. regarding a new ti frame….

i also have lynskey GR270 gravel which, TBH, is the most versitile bike ive ever ridden. 700c wheels and it does road well, put a set of lauf grit SL forks and 650b wheels and it will handle most of the rough stuff i throw at it. used it bike packing, done 300km+ day rides on it with no issues +, got great deal from Lynskey direct (even with the import duty) and has a lifetime warrenty so no issues if any cracks appear.

Like this is even worth starting a thread for 🙄

Do they still make the Amazon compatible with last centuries braking system?

I’m just wondering if I’d regret going steel for a bike that would take a pasting on the winter roads?

I think you’d regret buying a titanium bike that cracks and is useless more.

I ride in total filth on my steel bike and it looks fine. Better than yours will because it won’t have the rubber paste of rim brake pads all over the fork and stays.

Have owned a few Ti bikes and currently a Ti HT MTB. I’ve never quite been convinced by the ‘comfort’ of Ti. Always felt steel had a nice ride feel whereas Ti marginal if was any real difference to say alu.

How much of that is CEN tests and more robust build compared to yesteryear, I don’t know.

Px pickenflick I didn’t get on with and 100 miles later sold it. Current signal Ti mtb still undecided on. It replaced a carbon Ht but I’m unconvinced it’s much comfier in use.

In short, think I’d go steel next time over Ti.

Funny, but I’m not too fussed about the ‘feel’ as my current frame (which ‘feels’ just fine) is middle of the range Kinesis aluminium with 40mm/35psi tyres, suspension seatpost, suspension stem, so I think the feel of the frame will be pretty much muted by everything else!

Right enough the new build would probably err towards the less chunky style of riding so no suspension seatpost or stem ideally.

Still sort of erring towards steel actually, as was correctly deduced above it’s for a canti build and I’m not even confident there will be canti frame builders around in 5 years time as some framebuilders have already stopped building with them. Hence maybe I do want something that won’t fail once it’s out of warranty in five years, or can at least be easily repaired… Hmm…

Having had nice steel with custom paint and now gone Ti, if you can afford it go Ti.

If for no other reason than you won’t get upset by chipped and scratched paint.

Obviously not a custom frame, but I’ve just ordered a rim-braked Genesis Equilibrium (Steel) to replace the cracked Ti frame.
I’m also considering buying a “really nice” gravel bike. It probably would have been titanium, but this Ti frame cracking has really bugged me!

Reilly Spectre here, its my year round road/gravel bike.

Just swap wheelsets for different applications

I’ve not been a fan of steel since the 90s. Known a couple of guys who had frames rust “to death”. However, pretty convinced that the Ti tag line of “a bike for life” is a bit of a fallacy.

Lots of people say steel doesn’t have the feel it used to thanks to CEN but if going custom, maybe I would be tempted by a high quality steel frames gravel bike.

Of 6 ti bikes between mates, 2 have cracked (my Charge, friends Lynskey) – not a great ratio. Still got a steel Condor gravel bike from 90s (made by Dave Yates) and it’s peachy.

Easy to rust-proof a steel frame. Won’t be fully proofed in reality but ED coating or waxoil will do the trick. A yearly strip down or flushing breathe holes through with WD40 won’t do any harm either.

I love Ti bikes but I keep buying steel bikes. The weight difference makes no odds to me, the ride feel of a good steel frame is as good as it gets (I’ve sold Ti custom frames to keep higher end steel and 953 frames) and the rust aspect isn’t a problem unless it’s you want it to cope with true neglect over salted road winters, the sort of neglect that ruins all your aluminium parts anyway.

I’ve also had a higher failure to ownership ratio in Ti than steel. 2 out of 5 owned, 3 out of 5 if you count the one that broke not that long after I passed it on. Only steel failure so far has been a fork that was made with under-specced tubing. If I want a frame as a keeper it’ll be steel.

I’m not even confident there will be canti frame builders around in 5 years time as some framebuilders have already stopped building with them.

100% will be builders making canti/rim brake frames in 5, 10 years or more’s time. One benefit of custom steel is having a non-CEN tubeset for rim brakes made for you, ideally with a steel fork. The ride feel of a more 90s road bike is quite different to a modern tubeset for discs with a carbon fork, I really like it. So much so that I’m not convinced we’ve seen progress or improvements in the ride feel of frames, only change. Building these bikes as customs will only be more valid as big brand tech moves onwards.

I guess I should factor in my complete colour blindness and lack of taste, which will no doubt result in a horrible looking frame once I’ve gone mad with the custom paint options…

By ‘horrible looking bike’ do you mean ‘bike that you think looks awesome but other people don’t like’? If that’s the case then don’t waste another second of your life thinking about what other people think.

My 2p – I don’t think I’d be able to tell the difference in ride feel between steel & Ti and trying to second guess the corrosion/fatigue properties of the metal is well beyond my knowledge. I’d probably just choose based on which one looks the nicest to me (probably Ti in my case, but that’s just my preference).

I’m just making a “new” commuter based on the rear triangle of a frame I made in 2012. Inside was protected with Boeshield, and this is what it was like when I chopped the down tube 🙂

In fairness it has cleaned up OK after cutting of the remains of the dt and polishing / blasting off the rust. I now use linseed oil which seems to stick better.

Phosphate type dipped internal coatings are the way to go if possible. Lad has an old Ribble 725 which has done mega miles drenched in road salt and sweat. I replaced the headset the other week and it was spotless inside (some kind of black conversion coating).

If money was no object, I’d still choose steel as I’m not sold on Ti, but it’s not my bike or my money.

I suppose it comes down to how ‘special’ you want your winter road bike to actually be, for most people a winter bike is more of a workhorse not a show pony and extra money spent on something that gets a B-team part spec and dragged through wet, salty winter conditions isn’t often worth it.

But it would take a lot of neglect for a steel frame to die inside of a decade (IMO/IME). My winter bike is very cheap steel, doesn’t get washed that frequently, wasn’t new to me and is over 20 years old. the best way to ensure minimal degradation is probably to fit guards and store it in the dry TBH. Some people even waxoyl frames as a preventative measure, never bothered personally…

Ultimately it sounds like you don’t just want a workhorse OP, you want a “nice winter bike”, and that makes sense, a bike that you like and feels/looks a bit special will help motivate you a bit more to ride when the weather is minging.
If Ti floats your boat and minimal corrosion is a selling point why not, If having a fancy custom paint job (that might spend a fair bit of time covered in grime) appeals and the cost saving helps then go with steel.

Ask yourself which option are you more likely to look at after ten years and still smile to yourself?

I have a 5 year old Ti winter bike (Enigma Etape) and the frame looks as good today as when I got it. Not sure about the mythical ride feel of Ti, and not really bothered about durability- any bike can die- but I do love riding it, even in rubbish weather. Don’t get hung up on Ti vs steel, buy a nice bike and accept it won’t last forever, and you won’t be disappointed.

i have a Serotta/Saratoga Frameworks built Ti PX bike from 2013. Ridden in all weathers.

Once the mud is wiped off, it looks like it did when I got it.

Ultimately it sounds like you don’t just want a workhorse OP, you want a “nice winter bike”, and that makes sense, a bike that you like and feels/looks a bit special will help motivate you a bit more to ride when the weather is minging.

I’m torn about nice winter bike vs. workhorse, I guess my current winterbike is inbetween, the important kit is nice enough that it doesn’t affect the quality of the ride, but to look at it’s pretty utilitarian, SKS guards, 105 drivetrain etc.

BUUUUUUT weirdly, it is nowhere near as nice to ride as my summer road bike, and I don’t believe a simple 1kg of extra weight is all there is to it, for instance my back always seems to get more sore on my winter bike despite geometry and contact points being identical! In some respects it is now ‘dead’ to me as the last 5 or 6 rides on it have all been purgatory and I just don’t want to go out on it any more, really strange. I’m hoping a nice Ti or Steel frame might inject some magic* back into the relationship** with my winter or all-weather bike, which frankly is the bike I should be riding 90% of the time.

Will wait and see what the difference in lead times between Rourke Steel and Albannach Ti, it might make all the difference

*bring the winter roads alive you might say
** yes I’m getting a bit silly now

^ Rourke Steel? Go for it. Would 100% be my choice if I was spending that sort of money on a winter/audax road bike. Esp if one bike is giving you discomfort, worth talking it through with them and getting fitted up.

Do Rourke make gravel frames?

Do Rourke make gravel frames?

Yeah, bit of a price jump if you want truly modern gravel features like flatmount disc mounts and tapered headtubes etc.

I’m sort of in-between, tapered headtube for my existing carbon forks but pretty standard 135mm QR rear end with canti studs, so it’s not a million miles away from a touring build or similar anyway.

They’ve been doing CX frames for years by the looks of it.

£1250 for F&F is not that expensive compared to All City, Surly etc. It’s about the same price as a Fairlight Secan

http://stoogecycles.co.uk/2021/01/25/its-the-rambler-a-bike-for-all-occassions/

I am sure Andy would build you a ti one.

There are plenty of 30, 40, 50 year old steel frames still kicking about and I’m still riding a 28 year old steel frame that used to be washed after a ride by throwing it in a canal. To be fair, a rear dropout failed about a year ago. The repair cost £12 and was ready for collection an hour after I enquired about the price.

I used to fancy titanium, but to be honest I’ve never had a problem with either steel or aluminium, so the additional expense just isn’t worth it to me: I’m not convinced it buys anything worthwhile.

And I like fancy paint jobs. Even if they do get gradually tatty over time. Bikes that have adventures should be able to tell stories.

I’m booked in for a Rourke 853 frameset. I spent a long time deciding. I’ve one of their 953 frames and it is hands down the nicest bike I’ve ridden. I’ve gone 853 because I wanted a tapered headtube and that wasn’t an option with them in stainless. I’ve got a Burls custom ti frame in the shed and it’s shit. I’m just not fussed on ti over steel of any sort.

I’m booked in for a Rourke 853 frameset.

What sort of wait is it? They haven’t got back to me re: lead times yet, it’s almost as if they suspect me of being some sort of indecisive time-waster… 😁

Albannach hold a slender lead right now, if only for the reassurance that I’m only asking them to slightly tweak a template that they’ve already built a few of.

Am coming round to the idea of a bare titanium frame as a ‘canvas’ for me to ruin with dubious bar tape/anodised components/tan wall tyres etc 😎

I kind-of see the appeal of a polished Ti frame. Doesn’t rust or chip so still looks like new after years of use. The problem is that “like new” still means grey and there is just no way I could ever bring myself to buy a grey bike. But I guess that’s just me.

Tell you what Ian, I’m feeling generous. Buy me a Torragar and you can have the Amazon.

I’m sort of in-between, tapered headtube for my existing carbon forks but pretty standard 135mm QR rear end with canti studs, so it’s not a million miles away from a touring build or similar anyway.

Why not ‘future proof’ the frame by going with a bolted 142 rear and disc mounts along with the canti studs?

Good point. Are there any 135mm non-disk hubs?

Why not ‘future proof’ the frame by going with a bolted 142 rear and disc mounts along with the canti studs?

Not a bad shout I guess, and one less thing to ‘custom’…

Are there any 135mm non-disk hubs

Yeah, a DT Swiss 350 road hub with the correct end caps, e.g. the lovely handbuilt Pacenti wheels I already own 😎

I like my Ti frames. They are nothing posh like Moots but both have cracked. They were odd cracks too such as round the circumference of a chainstay. I’ve had them welded but I certainly wouldn’t rely on Ti as a mythical forever bike. After years of looking on eBay for secondhand Ti frames, you see a lot that have cracked including some high end makes. Maybe things have changed as people have learnt more so it is less likely now but I would be gutted if that were my high end custom frame. I do like the look of them too and that they always look new but against that you miss out on choosing a funky paint job which is surely one of the joys of a custom frame.