Seeing as my back is currently a bit **** I seem to be spending a lot of time looking for a new bicycle.

What are the pros and cons of these two plus sizes (ignoring “normal” and “fat”) relative to each other?

I’d guess at 29+ literally being too big for short riders. But other than that I’m a bit clueless. Happy to be pointed at a suitable article!

29+ is a genuine development and improvement. 650b+ is for manufacturers wanting to jump on a bandwagon by sticking new wheels in a 29er frame.

vs

29+ is a genuine development and improvement. 650b+ is for manufacturers wanting to jump on a bandwagon by sticking new wheels in a 29er frame.

This leaves me in something of a dilemma. I mean on the face of it I’d instinctually prefer the 29+ option.

However, I usually can’t resist a good bandwagon!!!

@Matt

Which way round are those two?

I’ve owned both, I only still own one!

The notion that 29+ isn’t suitable for smaller riders is typical patronising cr@p – designed and built my own custom titanium 29:

I’m only 5ft4 and 60kg but can drive this thing as fast as any other bike – it’s an absolute rocket on open trails and will easily outpace my mates on other bikes. Maybe notice the heavier wheels and climbs, but the extra grip means it gets up stuff skinny riders are walking. Usual tyre pressures are 8 front, 10 rear – not quite full-fat territory – that’s when I get to play on this:

I’d rather ride a rigid bike with soft tyres – it’s simple, reliable and doesn’t cost a fortune to maintain

The notion that 29+ isn’t suitable for smaller riders is typical patronising cr@p – designed and built my own custom titanium 29:

It was actually ignorant crap, not patronising crap.

Point taken tho.

Edit, I’ll need to be able to fit a saddle bag under that seat!?

I think you should buy a new Cotic Solaris with 2 wheel sets

No, I’m sticking with patronising because that’s the attitude you get in some bike shops – it’s the “we don’t stock that size because nobody wants them’ attitude and “you’ll be fine on a medium” (which they have in stock). BTW I can get an Orlieb large seatpack under the saddle but it does need a strap to snug it up.

I’ve tried 29+ and wasn’t impressed . I’ve got two full fat bikes and love them . I’m about to either buy new or convert my 2souls sj to a 27.5+ to see what it’s like. I was seriously interested in the beast of the east 1 until I saw it weighed more than my full fat bike so undecided now.

doesn’t cost a fortune to maintain

eyewatering cost of custom built ti half/fatbike aside

😉

I’ve been 29 plus for a while on a rigid. It’s great in everything except mud. It sucks in mud. I’ve never ridden 27 plus, but I would imagine it also sucks in mud.

29 plus just seems to smash through everything, makes bumpy climbs a breeze.

I am bimbler though, so my opinion means little.

Have ridden both sizes quite a bit. As a general rule I’d say 29+ is excellent for long fast stuff in rough terrain. 27+ is noticeably more maneuverable in tighter twistier stuff. Both give loads of traction, a nice comfy ride and a bit of that ‘monster truck’ fat bike feeling.

The notion that 29+ isn’t suitable for smaller riders is typical patronising cr@p

For production frames it’s basically impossible to avoid toe overlap on small 29+ frames. You can make that choice on a custom frame that you are going to deal with it or make other adjustments to minimise it. But a production bike with toe overlap will not pass EN regulations.

650b+ is for manufacturers wanting to jump on a bandwagon by sticking new wheels in a 29er frame.

I disagree, both wheel sizes are significantly different from regular 29 or 27.5 sizes. The original thrust behind 27+ was exactly so that you could fit fattish tyres to an existing frame. I don’t see how that helps manufacturers sell bikes….

Been on a Stache 5 for a couple of months now and honestly am slightly disappointed.
There’s no doubting the grip aside from sloppy mud, Chupacabras are crap in mud! Overall though it just seems slightly ponderous and detached, as soon as the front hub turns up, I’ll be going back to 2.3″ Minions on 30mm rims and fitting a 120mm Pike.
I’m all up for trying new things, in this case though, plus tyres just aren’t for me! (maybe cos I’m only 5’6″, haha)
P.S. Anybody want to buy a Stache 5 wheelset and tyres?

I’d guess at 29+ literally being too big for short riders.

Kaaching!

Pretty much that. Having ridden a fatbike on various terrain for 4 years I’m aware of where it works well and where it is a bit compromised. 29+ is an ideal mid point between fat and 29er but you do end up with mahoosive wheels. B+ shrinks that a little so you end up with around the same overall diameter as 26×4 or 29×2.3.

B+ Pact, 5’7″ rider.

I reckon proportions look fine. It rides fine. And there is room for a saddle bag 🙂

Sam says:

I don’t see how that helps manufacturers sell bikes….

Because they slap a new set of wheels in barely tweaked frame and hey presto it’s a new model.

Surly 1×1

26 +

Because they slap a new set of wheels in barely tweaked frame and hey presto it’s a new model.

Any examples of this?

I rode my Trek Stache at the recent CYB gravity enduro and it went pretty well:)
Its a 15.5 inch frame and im about 5`5 in my socks.
Its my favourite bike now and my Anthem (expensive carbon) and Procaliber (expensive carbon) haven’t had a look in since I discovered half fat!!

27+ and 29er

http://salsacycles.com/culture/introducing_pony_rustler

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/horsethief

Geometry/Dimensions looks pretty similar to me. Or perhaps the Cotic solaris using mismatched rims to squeeze a fatter tyre in?

Is that a “new model” then?

the Cotic solaris using mismatched rims to squeeze a fatter tyre in?

So not a new model then.
Just a Solaris with different wheels.
All choices all good.

I’m underwhelmed with my Stache 5. Capable, but not much fun, and ponderous at slow speed

However, Stooge on B+ is where it’s at for me, and about to convert the Stache to B+ too

Ok Solaris not a great example then, perhaps it’s even worse as it’s not even got the right rims at both ends. The other two look pretty damn similar.

“Pony Rustler” sounds like some dreadful innuendo!

http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/how-do-plus-sizes-27-5-29-compare-992927.html

I should add that it almost certainly makes a difference if you’re looking for front and/or rear suspension too. A 29+ wheel and a bit of suspension travel is going to require a fairly large frame and a suitably matched rider. B+ at least makes it more accessible to the majority of riders.

Pony Rustler = Horsethief. Basically them admitting it’s exactly the same frame, no bad thing, spent the last two years on a Horsethief, excellent bike!

Because they slap a new set of wheels in barely tweaked frame and hey presto it’s a new model.

As above, I can’t think of many cases where this has actually happened. And even if it has, does it really sell any more bikes, or just a bike which may appeal to a certain user more than another due to the parts spec? Choice is good, I don’t understand the ‘evil bike industry marketing conspiracy’ argument. If you don’t think it’s for you, don’t buy it.

just a bike which may appeal to a certain user more than another due to the parts spec?

That I get, and whatever my view on 650b+ I don’t think I’d ever go as far as “evil bike industry marketing conspiracy” (unless we were talking about Specialized :wink:) so much as just a bit ‘meh’ and squashing different wheels in.

Rocky Mountain Sherpa is a 29er Element in 650b+ drag isn’t it?

Ok Solaris not a great example then, perhaps it’s even worse as it’s not even got the right rims at both ends.

Seems a bit harsh, Cy laid out the thinking as they tried the B+ wheels with 25mm internal rims and then full scrapers- in their opinion i35 front i29 rear gave the best compromise of weight, tyre support etc. You could always put wider rims on if you preferred…

Probably best for my OCD. 😀

Must admit I’ve planned mismatched wheelsets before and been a little irritated by it. I’ve found as long as its the same brand and the stickers are similar its OK!

“I’m underwhelmed with my Stache 5. Capable, but not much fun, and ponderous at slow speed

However, Stooge on B+ is where it’s at for me, and about to convert the Stache to B+ too”

I don’t find that, in fact it accelerates fairly quickly and holds speed well. Good luck to anyone of my mates trying to follow my lines on it (Stache 7).
Reckon it needs the Manitou forks tho. Too “undamped” without them.

29+ is an ideal mid point between fat and 29er but you do end up with mahoosive wheels.

You’ve seen that barn door I’ve been riding haven’t you!?

So roughly speaking, long stuff over rough ground. 29+ if I can get it to fit, might be uninspiring.

27.5+ for a bit more of a giggle.

I’d guess at both being very competent upon ownership.

You need to beg/steal/borrow (hire?) a Krampus for a decent test ride.

I have a Trek Stache 9 29+, and a Trek EX Fuel 650b bike.

Been thinking about getting a pair of boost wheels built up for the Stache 9 to see if the 650b plus would be a better compromise.

I really like the 29+ ,but it does have some drawbacks, and a change to a slightly smaller wheel size could be near ideal.
Given that I might go for alight wheel set up on 650b plus, carbon rims, tubeless and less true mass it might alleviate some of the disadvantages of the 29+ ( every bike has some flaws).

Disadvantages of the 29+ is going uphill.
You can feel the drag, it’s not that terrible, but it is there and it harder to accelerate . Riding uphill on a technical climb takes more effort, as the larger wheel can tend to stall if you don’t have enough momentum while minching your way up.
Can tend to wander on the slower climb as well, just a bit more physically demanding.

Advantages are the ability to maintain your speed on the flat or downhill. Easier to accelerate downhill, ability to roll over a lot of ground easier.
Excellent confidence in the larger tyre.

Have to have a look at what effect the 650+ tyre would have on the geometry.

Not much to add, apart from that my Krampus is still my favourite bike to ride after 3 years of ownership.
I used to be (still am a bit!) a serial bike changer and tinkerer. But I honestly feel that I’ve found my ‘bike for life’ in the Krampus.
Amazing grip, great fun on singletrack, good for all dayers, no slouch up hill, and surprisingly fast down.