Unlucky @shedbrewed, you did seem a little peeved afterwards!

Agree about the tyres, I spent a lot of time Sat night / sunday morning watching the weahter radar, second guessing conditions and repeatedly swithcing tyres, thankfully the file rear, interediate fornt seemed ideal. Could have got away with file f&r I think, but always good to have the extra security.

i enjoyed the course, zipping along the flat singletrack in a train first lap was pretty fun. There was a lot of argy-bargy caused by the singeltrack; some of which was funny as to see, bike grabbing arguments when people tried to force through.

Had a pretty good race, felt good on the bike, steady-ish lap times and HR, and for what was a power course had a good result. Frustratingly I bungled the sandy little ramp after the tunnel at the end of the first lap, had to dismount, loosing the wheel in front and then couldnt get back on before the hell headwind sections so was dangling 50 yeards off the back of the group in the full brunt of the wind and stayed like that, esperately trying to close it but with the distnace slowly increasing for a few laps.

Intermediate front and file tread rear worked well at Pembrey yesterday. What clearly didn’t work were the ears of the back-marker; who after I called ‘passing on your right’, turned his head right to look at me and rode right as he did so. This resulted in me t-boning him and a rather unpleasant tangle of bikes and over the bars.

I had something similar happen to me a few weeks back, although the fast guy called on your left, so I moved to the right as he hit me at a fair old whack, both of us hit the deck pretty hard. He the had a good old rant about how he called on my left, I agreed he then looked very sheepish and apologized as he realised he’d gone to pass on the right. I now have a quick double check and try to hold my line rather than dart to the side when being overtaken

@ferrals it was a brutal headwind. I felt ropey after it in the second lap. Checked my hr after and I was sitting at 199bpm. That’d be why.
Yeah I was peeved. It didn’t help that the backmarker had decided to have a drink at the time.
Anyway, that’s racing.
I think I might be on the same intermediate/file combo for the next couple of races.

Yeah things like that are annoying. I was lucky to not be held up unduly, the only time i got caught behind someone slow I was delighted for a breather 🙂

I get confused between left and right at the best of times so at full effort its a complete lottery if I go the right way!

I think I might be on the same intermediate/file combo for the next couple of races.

Are you racing somewhere differnet to me??

Think the big puddles after mud soup corner really helped wash the lumps off each lap.

I think we were the lucky ones, earlier races were really claggy, then it rained a bit for us 😎

Was pleased with my effort and finally moving up the places to 35th.

Son No.1 had a mare, crashed twice, sliding back down the hill by the pits once, lost heart, but still managed 4th. No.2 appears to be quite good at running with his bike and came away 10th placed boy

@ferrals I know Carmarthen can be boggy but there’s also sections where it’s tarmac. Quite flat too from memory.
Round after is at Tredegar park again and I know it’s not going to be as dry as round 1 but still could be firm enough.

Good fun yesterday my littlun was to busy chatting on the start line to make a decent go of it in the Under 8’s hopefully she might learn not to answer back to the commisairre She does struggle with the CX version of the frog so I might just put some flat bars. Anyway she was happy with getting a medal and a Mars Bar. Steve your lads do really well, so my question is how often are they riding. We struggle to get riding time in with work, other clubs etc., although Gymnastics on a Saturday morning might be getting knocked on the head!

I’m in the same boat with our daughter – she’s moved up to U10 and found the two races she’s done very hard, as we don’t really get out enough. Going from the podium U8s to being at the back is a bit demotivating, although she was in good spirits yesterday in what were tough conditions (medal and mars bar definitely helped).

@shedbrewed – you’re a braver man than I! I rmember Carmarthen mostly for being a mech-ripping mud fest! I’ll be using mud tyres for sure.

I’m wondering if it’s even going to be on, given the amount of rain/flooding they’ve had there and considering last year was cancelled as the showground was underwater. I have heard a few people saying the same.. though nothing more than idle speculation. If it is cancelled it will be a choice between Western and SW league for me, as I do want to race next weekend.

Steve your lads do really well, so my question is how often are they riding.

@BenjiM
Thanks, it’s all the big one wants to do he wants to go pro! and the middle one just enjoys it. As for riding, I’ll be totally honest, not very much at all. Over winter they tend to just race CX and maybe the odd weekend ride when the weather is ok, but the big one can easily rattle off 25k round Delamere or a couple of laps of the blue at Llandegla. Over the summer they ride a lot, but just messing about on bikes kind of riding. They both race kiddies crit’s in the summer and that’s about as serious as it gets.

I reckon they’re pretty lucky with their school as they have PE about 3 times a week, swimming once a week and over winter inter-schools (the local villages) XC races every couple of weeks, so it keeps them pretty active.

I’m really not one for training sessions for little kids, we just mix any skills stuff in to riding round the woods – translates as see what the biggest / steepest thing I can convince them to chuck themselves off.

Welsh league at Carmarthen on Saturday has been cancelled.

I’ve entered the SW league race seeing as a change is as good as a rest.

Anyone else race the SW league and know what the Taunton course is like?

Well, the Nw round at Beacon Park was the classic mud fest it always seems to be (weirdly rideable & grippy, despite the slop). Barely needed to touch the brakes, but still got through a set of pads!

Looks like the Heaton Park round next weekend will be the “usual” course – no complaints from me as it’s a cracker of a route as long as the swoopy stuff in the trees stays rideable 🙂

.

Why are CX races so expensive to enter?

Looking at doing a couple of WMCCL events but because I haven’t pre-registered for the league and entry is closed anyway I’d have to pay £3 on top of the £15 to enter.

All for a 50min race. Sounds excessive.

It doesn’t sound excessive to me, at all, but obv we all have our own personal perspective on the value of £18.

Think what is involved, though – my local league is the NW can have 50-100 racers per age group, so 100s of competitors in total, six different races from U8 up. I think in some events we’ve had 100+ just with the kids (U8 – youth). Needs a proper risk-assessed CX course with two commissaires in charge, timing system which is run by volunteers, 10-15 marshalls to put the course our and take it away (league members who will all marshall one race).
Needs to be a venue with a boat load of parking space, and won’t aggravate local residents – establishing a new venue for cross can be really difficult for these reasons. A lot of work behind the scenes from club guys to make sure venues are sustainable with councils, landowners etc. Plus you prob need to partner with BC for liability insurance, first aid which add further costs.

But the whole point of all of this is that it delivers – you’re getting great racing, really competitive and challenging right through the field.

I would say it’s ok price wise but it definitely does make me think, especially as you can often spend the same again on fuel to get to each event! I do sometimes find it odd how they then charge extra for parking when you’re parking in the same muddy field that the race is being held in!

So have located the issue with my brakes… combination of slightly low pads (about 1/2 worn) and my cable outers have both compressed (or more the spiral has unwound)! I must have held the brakes on especially hard at some point lining up for the race to do this (pre-race nerves) as they worked fine going up and down the road warming up just before. Genuinely never seen this before with proper brake outer so a bit mystified, although it is the stock outer that Genesis fitted in 2014 so had few years use! Got some full hydros in the post (hopefully) so will negate this issue in the future, but it does mean I wont feel bad about selling the calipers and levers with an unknown fault!

Why are CX races so expensive to enter?

Are they? Guess it depends what you’re comparing them to…

Anyway, insurance mostly, plus the cost of using the park/private estate – that’s been the death of a few ‘classic’ venues.
Certainly no-one “in the scene” is making a fortune out of it, so I suppose the answer is (without being facetious, I hasten to add) “Because that’s how much it costs to run” 🙂

I agree that from the outside it seems expensive. Having been involved with the organisation of our own event for the last couple of years, it’s interesting to see where the money goes.

From your £15 online via BC, £1 goes straight to BC for the payment handling, £3 to BC as a levy, and 80p to our league as a levy. So we’re down to £10.20 per rider before we even start. We have around 300 riders paying full price, so call it £3,000 in round numbers after levies.

From that we’ve got to pay venue fees (varies a lot, but typically £500 – £1,500), first aid (~ £500), toilets (~ £300), chip timing (~ £1000), cash prizes (~ £800).

Other odds and sods quickly add up (stakes, tape, signs, free refreshments to thaw out our marshals).

Our venue takes a lot of preparation. This year, we’ve been very fortunate in getting quite a lot free hire kit, and a number of us taking days off work to do prep work. Last year we paid hundreds for tools and labour.

You’ll notice that this doesn’t add up which is why we now charge £18 pre-entered!

Even at these prices, there’s a huge amount of “goodwill” (i.e. free labour and discounts) needed to make our event viable.

Personally I’d be happy to see the cash prizes go: I don’t think anyone does this for the money. Admittedly I don’t see any cash prizes in CX, but I’ve had a few TT (team!) prizes and I’m always, meh, that’s my entry fee back.

Chip timing adds a fair bit to the cost, but it’s well worth it in my opinion.

The kids races are also much cheaper (so you are subsidising them which isn’t a bad thing), and if you get to be good then prize money can make them near cost neutral – I employ a fast wife and kids to help in that respect 🙂

Our last race had £2500 prize pot spread a long way across the categories. Twinkly Dave might even have made a profit!

I do begrudge the £1 to BC for registration, though, as it’s not a great system and it’s per rider, regardless of age, even if you do them all in one batch.

Our last race had £2500 prize pot spread a long way across the categories. Twinkly Dave might even have made a profit!

All profits are ploughed back into the nearest coffee cart and recirculated as Tunnocks products for people who’ve been nice to me in the pits 😉

Our club event only manages to break even because club members donate home-made cakes to be sold at the cake stand on the day. Imagine how much it would cost if the races weren’t run entirely by volunteers (with the exception of the chip timers I guess).

I am happy to pay the cost of chip timing, not only are results avaiable quicker and with more detail available for the stats nerds; it saves someone whos spent all day in a muddy field with a clipboard, then spending the following day deciphering said muddy clipboard to work out hundreds of placings, while peopel on social media clamour for resutls.

Personally I’d be happy to see the cash prizes go

Agreed. Total waste of money (not that I’ve ever won money in a cX race). But its BC specified amounts. When there was a novice race in our league even the novices got cash prizes.

All for a 50min race. Sounds excessive

My mate said something similar, thought it was a lot of faff ‘just for 10km of riding’.

It’s either worth it to you or not, nobody’s getting rich off it. Cost of race entries is worth it just for giving me so much reason to look forward to winter!

I listened to an american podcast where they were saying their races (which are much larger than a uk leaugue race) have to be sold as ‘events’ rather than races to be profitabile.

TO a certain extent though, even with a league race you are paying for an event, you may only be racin for 50 minutes, but you get there early, pre-ride the course, chat to friends, watch some of the other categories etc. It is a full day out even if the race you’ve paid for is just part of it.

Twinkly Dave might even have made a profit!

Not at the rate he goes through wheel & bottom bracket bearings he won’t 😉

It might just be me, but if I’m honest I don’t even factor in fuel costs, and race entry fees are more than reasonable IMHO. £12 for me in Vets and a quid a piece for the monsters, I suppose you can add in a tenner for league registration and a fiver each for the kids, its £174 for the whole league season for the 3 of us. It’s just a family day out with a lot of mud, cleaning, and hard work (if you’re racing).

Probably untold damage to the washing machine though, our 3 lots of kit, including warm up and race gear each took 3 washes to be the right colour again after Beacon Park!!

Speaking of costs, I’m seriously considering a pit bike. As few will attest on here, the NWCCA rounds can be very grassy & muddy and after Leverhulme I started thinking about it.

Now I’m no podium botherer, let alone top 10 or even 20 (as it currently stands) so is it self flattering over indulgence or a good idea? I’m not talking a matching one to my main bike, just something cheap and 2nd hand with matching contact points, gear ratios and shifters so they at least feel the same to sit on.

I always take a pit bike now – couple of seasons back starting to race more regularly I had an exasperating run of mechanicals, was upgrading my cross bike anyhow, so decided to take two to races. Initially just left it in the pits in case of a problem, but now if my daughter is racing or I can drag my son out of the house I’ll get a change. I do own a roly poly water carrier (extremely Boss) and a worx jetwasher, though, so I guess am invested in it.

I wouldn’t give a shit about the indulgence of a bike change, I’d do it if I was fighting for 7th or 77th if I felt it would help – it’s part of the sport. It is a palaver, though, with all the stuff, getting someone to pit for you. So I can definitely relate to people just wanting to keep things simple – just show up with you, your bike, and your lungs.

It’s fun if your kids can do it, although yours may be a bit young if they’re racing U8. My daughter managed great at the weekend and felt really proud of herself. Both of mine helping out worries me, though, as a pit crew that hate each other and a jet spray could cause a scene (but hasn’t happened yet).

Personally I’d be happy to see the cash prizes go

Agreed. Total waste of money (not that I’ve ever won money in a cX race). But its BC specified amounts. When there was a novice race in our league even the novices got cash prizes.

BC doesn’t specify any amounts (or event that the prizes must be cash) and as of this season there’s not even a recommended number of prizes (it used to be 1 prize per 5 riders). The exception to this is youth races, where you must pay out 75% of the entry fees as prizes. [Source: page 187 of BC handbook]

For our club events this year we’re doing minimal cash prizes for the top 3 in each category and giving any cash left over to charity (air ambulance).

We just try not to think about the cost…. £40 entry if we all race, plus league plus transponder purchase plus BC membership plus plus plus. But guess we don’t smoke, don’t drink huge amounts, keeps us fit and always fun battling with you boys (this year seems to be particularly close in the midfield dad’s championship).

Pit bikes don’t bother me (feel free to use what you want) and it can add to the race tactics as sometimes a bike change loses more time than the clean bike gains. I’ve gone to the extreme of making my own frame to avoid mud clogging and it hasn’t yet failed to finish. Rear mech is still the potential weak link, but I’ve not resorted to the singlespeed or Sturmey Archer options designed into the frame (I’m sure the SA would cause much start line amusement).

The only thing I don’t like is jetwash armageddon at National races. Would be much fairer and less abusive of race venues if limited to 2 bikes and bucket only washing – but can’t see that suggestion going down well.

BC doesn’t specify any amounts (or event that the prizes must be cash) and as of this season there’s not even a recommended number of prizes (it used to be 1 prize per 5 riders)

Ah, my mistkae, I knew the recommended numbr of prizes had been dropped, but when we were discussing if cash prizes were needed, someone said it was stipulated amounts

R.e pit bikes, I also always take one. It’s not a cost indulegnece for me as its just my old cx bike that I use as a commuter bike most of the year. come cx season the mud-guards and road tyes come off and the cx tyres go on. It has totally different geometry / contact points and feels very differnet when switching but I’d still rather have it than not. I dont have a pit crew but normally there is someone in the club hanging around who is willing to hand up a bike 2/3rds of the way through a race if things are a bit sticky. If its really muddy some of the kids in the club are happy to do be proper pit crew for pocket money, much cheaper than replacing a rear mech and bike changes every couple of laps does make a big difference when its really muddy.

No jetwashes would be a fine idea, Mick – basically you can get a bike change if your bike is fked and that’s it. But like you say they’re not going anywhere – part and parcel of elite cx racing and local / regional leagues feed into that.

N Wales league is single frameset only. Wasn’t seeing the positive side of that when I snapped a chain lap one in a race there last year, but it’s a nice counterpoint to the jetwash circus.

I’ll say the opposite of everyone else and go with pits being a great idea. As a racer the idea of midwinter races being decided by who is the best at using a stick to clear out grass/mud/leaves at the side of the course isn’t very appealing!
I can see why lots of jetwashes aren’t a desireable thing in local races as regards noises and that ever-present pit-area raincloud, but given that most people riding are relying on the goodwill of teammates/long suffering spouses/children I can’t see how making things harder for them will really progress the sport…

(And as noted above, they are part and parcel of National and International level racing, so lets get people used to that standard if they have the kit)

I’ve got no issue with pits, the tactics of when to change bikes is all part of the sport. I don’t have a jet wah but at club level you don’t need a jet-was per person anyway, I’ve always been able to get use of one.

The pit area rain cloud does remind me that when we tape out our race to mark out a seperate bike wash area to make the actual pits more tolerable!

Well worth watching the superpresitige from Boom today on GCN if you haven’t seen it. cracking race!

First race in 8 years tomorrow. Overweight and underprepared due to 7 month old son, so should be “fun”. At least it’s on a golf links, so recent rain shouldn’t be a problem.

First race in 8 years tomorrow. Overweight and underprepared due to 7 month old son, so should be “fun”. At least it’s on a golf links, so recent rain shouldn’t be a problem

Montrose?

Had been looking forward to it but still off the bike, going to drive up to watch anyway, good excuse to get out the house anyway!

Aye, that’s the one monk. Live near Carnoustie so fits with family life. “Racing” V40 cat. If you see a fat sweaty man with weird handlebars and an interesting take on a race shirt, give me a cheer.

My pit bike again is just my second cross/winter bike.

I’ve currently got Maxxis Mud Wrestlers on- I’ve seen some Limus’ for £30 a pop and am wondering if they’ll make that much of a difference in muddy conditions? Anyone got any experience?

First CX race in a long time for me too today, I’ve not done any high intensity riding for ages so it’ll be Type 2 fun for sure. Western Leagues, Stroud round, I’ll be on the SS Kona Private Jake, it’s my doorstep race.

Ooft, remember why it’s 8 years since I did one!
Didn’t comes last though. Yup, some poor sod had to go to his nearest and dearest and tell them he was beaten by the guy in “that” shirt.
Great course and good conditions.

Monk, was that you filming in the dunes with your phone? Heard my name a few laps, but didn’t recognise anyone.

Day out for me at the SW league in Taunton due to the Welsh league cancellation. Nice dry, slightly sunny day, pizza oven by the finish line and lots of tape round a couple of playing fields. Great course with some super fun offcamber stuff and a little run up, a tiny bit of wooded stuff and a small sandpit. Loved all the technical stuff, there was also a lot of long straights which current fitness could have done without 🤣 just enough mud to ball up the tyres and make it slippy but not affect the bike or gears.
No results yet but went from right at the back to I guess somewhere in the middle, paced myself too much to start, but then still blew up with 10 to go as I’ve got used to racing 50 minutes not an hr.