Just in case the frame I’ve ordered fails to arrive yet again.

At 5 foot 5ish, I’d be on the small or medium.
Tyres would be 35’s with guards, which will fit on the 2016 apparently.

I have heard of people having overlap issues – how bad is it?

And if anyone has stuck a rack on, I’d be interested in any heel/pannier clearance issues too.

Thanks in advance.

I have heard of people having overlap issues – how bad is it?

most* small frames will have some toe overlap, the degree of overlap is dependant on the exact sizing, tyre size and if you have guards fitted or not, but the ‘how bad is it’ bit is entirely dependant on if you are bothered by toe overalp or not.

you’ll generally fall into one of two camps:

1 – ANY toe overlap is bad, makes you crash etc.
2 – not bothered by toe overlap at all

It’s rare to find people who are ok with ‘some’ toe overlap as the working range for steering means you either ride around it subconsciously or it bothers you no matter how much/little there is.

Rack wise the back end isn’t any shorter than average so you should be fine, it will come down to the rack you use and how you adjust your panniers to fit more than anything as there’s more leeway there than there is variation in back ends.

*for roadie bikes anyway, there are some exceptions but they will have less common geometry and you’ll probably know about it before buying, ie: 555S Thorn Audax style super slack HA with long offset fork, or just a very long front-centre.

EDIT – just looking at geo charts for CDF…

hmm, finding different charts for each year, going on the one currently listed on their site it doesn’t look like any extreme geo, not overly long WB, not massively slack or loads of offset so as above, likely to have some overlap…

I have a 54cm 2015 and there is a little toe clip overlap with 35mm tyres and mudguards. I can’t say it has worried me as all the drop bar bikes I have ever ridden have had some degree of overlap.

My 1996 50cm Trek 1400 has non.
Wife’s recent Trek 1.5 does, both on 25’s.

Doesn’t bother me that much, but there are other alternatives that definitely don’t have any.

I have toe overlap on my Crosslight 5 – I got used to it*, 35c tyres.

*I did however break the front mudguard during this time.

My 1996 50cm Trek 1400 has non.

odd for such a small frame to not have any, unless it’s one of those small in seat-tube length but actually still 53cm long in top tube style ‘small’ bikes that they used to make.

EDIT – doubly odd as my 1995 Trek 470 52cm does have overlap with 23s! and I would have expected the 1400 to be racier as it was basically pitched as the Alu upgrade to the 470 and has a slightly shorter weheelbase and steeper head angle.

but there are other alternatives that definitely don’t have any.

absolutely, but in order to not have any, you have to move the front wheel further away from the pedal, there’s only really 4 ways to do that

1 – slacker head angle
2 – more fork offset
3 – make the front centre longer*
4 – shorter cranks

Or obviously a combination of those, but either way whatever way you do it will result in either handling differences or fit differences.

It’s the bane of small frames for shorter riders, as there’s always a compromise there, either having to fit around a longer top tube with shorter reach stems, or different handling due to head angle changes or offset.

Some of the best designs out there manage to blend them all well enough to get some decent results with no overlap, others make a hash of it just to get no overlap, and others just keep the overlap.

* or not make it shorter than the bigger frames, and this one is what often results in small frames having very steep seat angles to maintain an artificially ‘short’ top tube measurement for small sizes as they’ve kept the front centre the same as the 52/53cm frame but made the seat angle steeper, which then requires a layback post for decent positioning in relation to the BB and you’re back to long effective reach.

Any option of you going to try out a CDF in a shop somewhere to check to see if you think it will be an issue for you?

If it doesn’t really bother you at the moment on other bikes you’re probably already in the ‘not bothered’ camp and it will be fine.

At 5 foot 5ish, I’d be on the small or medium

I wouldn’t expect you to be on the medium at that height.

Not seen and heel / pannier problems on any of the ones we’ve fitted racks to.

all my road frames[ and my current CX bike] have had toe overlap

As noted one gets used to it

my mrs is 5ft 6 and on a 54 day one.

she moans about the toe overlap alot , constantly trashes her mudguard.

I just suggest she grows a bit … its just part of being a shorty.

I have a 54cm 2015 and there is a little toe clip overlap with 35mm tyres and mudguards. I can’t say it has worried me as all the drop bar bikes I have ever ridden have had some degree of overlap.

+1

Amedias, no overlap on the 1400 as far as I can remember.
It’s a long top tube (longer than the 1.5 and that’s a nominally bigger frame) and the forks are steeply raked.

I know the 1.5 suffers, we went through a few front guards before deciding to leave them off.

Will go and have a sit on a few on Friday.

I am 5’6″ and I have a 51cm Croix de fer 20. 35C tyres but no guards.

There is some toe overlap (size 7 feet) but only noticeable when when starting off if turn sharply at low speed. On the ride in general I never notice it.

I am 5’5″ and have a 50cm 2015 custom build Croix De Fer. I run 34c knobbly cross tyres and use 165mm cranks to minimise toe overlap. I have size 42 Shimano MTB 41 shoes.

I get a tiny amount of “rub” rather than full overlap and I don’t use mudguards.

Hope that helps…

Si

It helps a lot. 🙂
Size 42’s and 165 cranks here too.

The Genesis blurb mentions increased clearance this year, and it’s a lovely shade of yellow.
🙂

OK.
It’s on the top of the ‘backup’ list, along with the Vagabond (about a Mars bar heavier but takes 2 tyres) and the Spa Tourer (no overlap, rides beautifully, but no discs until later this year.

Thanks everyone.

I’m 5’4 riding a small 2015 Croix De Fer (Carbon fork). Toe overlap (170mm cranks, size 41 shoes) exists but only happens when I’m going very slow to steer that sharply. Just a light tap with mudguards on 32c tyres, more of a buzz with 40c knobblies but no guards.
Heels are very close but not rubbing on Ortlieb back roller panniers on a tubus rack. Doesn’t bother me but I’d get shorter cranks to solve both issues if I rebuilt it.

I have a 52cm framed one and there is toe overlap. However I haven’t crashed yet. I get the same on my Defy when guards are fitted, it goes with having a shorter top tube. Unless road bikes all start going like mountain bikes to longer top tubes and shorter stems it will always be there in smaller frames.

I’ve got a Tortec Epic rack on mine, it came with some brackets that allow it to sit a bit further back-at least thats what I think they do. No heel problems at all.

re the panniers, mine is a medium and they are fine – I have the Ortleib ones that tilt up a bit though..

I have a 2016 Colenel Mustard in small, I’m 5’8″, it’s not that small as it’s a 544mm TT so I’d be suprised if you were on a medium.

Anyway 40mm wtb nano, no guards, 170mm cranks (or 172.5 I forget), 7.5 feet, no toe overlap

“get used to it”? sort of

have it on my small Kinesis Pro6 – i forget about it then I come to some urban cyclist dismount of a footbridge with tight U turns and am instantly and positively reminded, i guess goldfish memory doesn’t help