I have spent non-custodial convictions from 1988 that appear on my CRB. The nature of the convictions hasn’t stopped me being cleared to work with children and vulnerable adults.

I have just had a call from Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd who are recruiting for Telecommunications Engineers. I was told on the phone that they cannot accept anyone without a clean CRB, even after I explained that I have been cleared for working with the highest risk groups. Can they do this without breaching the Rehabilitation Act and/or discrimination laws?

take the hint– they may not want you ?

Each employer will need to ask for CRB clearance separately, and the police will only pass on information if they feel it is relevant to the role being applied for.

Obviously if your convictions are relevant to the role then they will be disclosed, but that will vary from role to role.

I was told on the phone that they cannot accept anyone without a clean CRB

Unless the position is covered by the exceptions to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, they’re taking the piss.

what flashy says
Your record is clean – would try and get that in writing from them tbh
FWIW I don think it turns up on a non enhanced disclosure- anyone know for sure?
PS it call the Disclosure and barring service now

Tricky one, I thought spent convictions were just that.
Well done for owning up to it to the prospective employers, finding out after the fact looks like you are trying to hide something, so well done.
Within the Finance world even spent CCJs can trip you up with some employers who take the view that spent or not it’s the fact that its there.

Theres a moral to this somewhere.

If they are spent you should not be asked about them and do not have to disclose them unless applying to a specified employment in which case the question will be worded to say the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act does not apply to this employment. I suggest you contact NACRO . http://www.nacro.org.uk they should be able to give you chapter and verse .

Have you ever seen a copy of your CRB and what colour was it?

If it’s green you’d be fine, Amber and it is up to them, Red and you have no chance.

Within the Finance world even spent CCJs can trip you up with some employers who take the view that spent or not it’s the fact that its there.

FSA (Or whatever it is these days) regulated positions are covered by the exception orders. This allows for an employer to consider spent convictions as relevant to the role.

As Flashy says – I recruit occasionally for positions covered by the exception provisions and/or with enhanced background checks but for normal positions you should be fine

There’s a moral to this somewhere.

Don’t be born with mental health issues?

Cretin.

Thanks for all the constructive comments.

Having had a think about this, I will now ask (recorded signed for letter) Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd to show me the authority they, and their client, have to ask for details of spent convictions (i.e. to be exempt under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act). I will also fire of an e-mail to the government ‘Job Centre’ (or whatever it’s called these days) where the vacancy was advertised to advise them what Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd are doing.

I’ve already fired of an urgent e-mail to Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd first thing, they’ve not replied so far.

Don’t be born with mental health issues?

Cretin.

Oh, the irony.

Have you ever seen a copy of your CRB and what colour was it?

I have the copy which you are legally entitled to. Green.

Oh, the irony.

Oh do explain, I’m so useless at seeing anything ironic.

Oh, the irony.

Indeed. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I’m so useless at seeing anything ironic.

Evidently.

There’s a moral to this somewhere.

Don’t be born with mental health issues?

Cretin.

?? The bloke got into some trouble 25 ****ing years ago! which only seem to have been fines or cautions.
I’m inclined to agree with tuckeruk on this one.

Tucker did they ask or did you volunteer the info? If they ask you and the employment is not one of the exempt ones your honest answer is no I do not have any convictions.

“(2)Subject to the provisions of any order made under subsection (4) below, where a question seeking information with respect to a person’s previous convictions, offences, conduct or circumstances is put to him or to any other person otherwise than in proceedings before a judicial authority—
(a)the question shall be treated as not relating to spent convictions or to any circumstances ancillary to spent convictions, and the answer thereto may be framed accordingly; and
(b)the person questioned shall not be subjected to any liability or otherwise prejudiced in law by reason of any failure to acknowledge or disclose a spent conviction or any circumstances ancillary to a spent conviction in his answer to the question.
(3)Subject to the provisions of any order made under subsection (4) below,—
(a)any obligation imposed on any person by any rule of law or by the provisions of any agreement or arrangement to disclose any matters to any other person shall not extend to requiring him to disclose a spent conviction or any circumstances ancillary to a spent conviction (whether the conviction is his own or another’s); and
(b)a conviction which has become spent or any circumstances ancillary thereto, or any failure to disclose a spent conviction or any such circumstances, shall not be a proper ground for dismissing or excluding a person from any office, profession, occupation or employment, or for prejudicing him in any way in any occupation or employment. “

sorry for the cut and paste from Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974

The role might not be one thats covered by the expemption to see spent convictions, but could it be one of their clients that’s insisting on it ? Maybe if some of the work you’d be doing in a bank etc ? Still not sure they’re allowed to take it into consideration legally, but just a thought.As others have said, the application form should say “this role is covered by the rehab act etc”

Good luck with anyway

Indeed. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Which two wrongs does one refer to?

Tucker did they ask or did you volunteer the info?

They asked me, and being

A: stupid
B: half asleep
C: desperate for a job

I told them.

Letter sent, I’ve asked them to provide written confirmation that both themselves and their client:

A: Are exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974
B: Are entitled to see a Disclosure and Barring Service check (previously Criminal Records Bureau check).

Not a lot on the web about the company, but I’ve identified all the directors and addressed the letter to one of them.

Not a lot on the web about the company, but I’ve identified all the directors and addressed the letter to one of them.

you do realise you’ve now been moved onto the “do not employ” list for being awkward trouble maker rather than because of any convictions you may or may not have?

so they still wont employ him then – what exactly has he lost here?

Offences are rehabilitated for a reason. You have served your punishment

The role might not be one thats covered by the expemption to see spent convictions, but could it be one of their clients that’s insisting on it ?

You cannot insist in it you either have the legal authority to ask or you do not have the authority to ask. What they want to do is neither here nor there as the law is clear.
Lots of employers ask when they have no way of checking I advise people it is between them and their conscious but obviously they are asking as they will take a dim view of any convictions. However they have no way of seeing if you have any convictions so it is a pointless question to ask.

with the current lack of jobs and more people applying, employers will look for any personal fact to refuse employmnet, haveing a so called spent conviction, means nothing, compared to not having any, and being able to work with kids means nothing unless you have sex ofences registered against your name.

Its for the employer to decide and pay you a wage.

The company is just covering itself, and possibly the more fuss you make youll go on a blacklist somewhere.

No reply from Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd to my phone call (where I was told someone would phone me back), e-mail, or Recorded Signed For letter (which was signed for on 18/09/13 12:07:00 at BST).

However, I have this minute just put the phone down from a very unhappy high ranking OpenReach bod. OpenReach take their good name very seriously, something which I was banking on. The bod has been doing some detective work, and thinks a third agency is involved between OpenReach and Capital Outsourcing Group (UK) Ltd, an agency he trusts, and he knows neither OpenReach or the agency would ask for anything other than unspent conviction details as per the law. He is fairly sure that once this agency is told about Capital Outsourcing Group Ltd’s conduct, the shit will hit the fan.

The guy was super nice, very supportive and understanding, and even went so far as to give me his personal e-mail and mobile phone number should I ever need anything. I replied a job would be nice (half in jest).

He’s asked me to send my CV in to him and he’ll earmark me for the next round of suitable jobs in my area! Might come to nothing, but it’s the most positive news I’ve had on the job front yet.

The pen is indeed mightier than the sword.

Now, I should just point out that not everyone with a criminal record will actually have been found guilty of a crime, or have even committed a crime. Some people might plead guilty. Now, why, you ask, would someone plead guilty to a crime they didn’t commit. Well, I imagine there may be many reasons, but I can think of a couple straight away:

A: Because pleading not guilty would result in a full court case and a secret would become public knowledge. When you’re young, or otherwise not got your head screwed on straight, priorities get confused.

B: The Police/CPS want a conviction, but you and your co-accused are all pleading innocent. It turns out that your co-accused all have previous and are in fact on parole. The Police/CPS tell you that if you plead guilty, charges against the others will be dropped, otherwise they face certain jail. The Police are quick to point out that should they be jailed, they’ll probably ‘not be very happy with you’.

Conversely, I was as guilty as hell and pleaded guilty. Does this now mean because of one incident where I made a silly mistake, resulting in two convictions, I have to put up with lawlessness for the rest of my life? We do get some very odd people frequenting STW.

you do realise you’ve now been moved onto the “do not employ” list for being awkward trouble maker rather than because of any convictions you may or may not have?

I would only be on the “do not employ” list of a company I wouldn’t dream of working for anyway! The kind of organisations I work for would welcome my honesty, integrity, resolve, and determination.

Capital Outsourcing Group (UK) Ltd, I’m still coming for you. 😀

Its for the employer to decide and pay you a wage.

The company is just covering itself, and possibly the more fuss you make youll go on a blacklist somewhere.

Bollox.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 make it unlawful for employers to discriminate against those with spent convictions, or even to know details of those spent convictions (with a few exceptions).

I’m glad you’ve had something positive come out of this.

Interesting thread – good luck Tucker in your job hunting.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 make it unlawful for employers to discriminate against those with spent convictions, or even to know details of those spent convictions (with a few exceptions).

Yep, as mentioned before, they could well find themselves in the doodoo for breaching the Act. Fools.

Glad to hear it’s gone well for you so far.

Well done for challenging and it wouldn’t have been an easy thing to do. I do hope that you receive a positive response that in turn leads to employment.

Sometimes companies/organisations do have to be challenged. I’ve had plenty of experience of this recently, I complained about insensitive correspondence of whom the NHS was the worst. Currently gunning for Lloyds Bank who’ve declined to communicate.

As said earlier, well done for being open and honest in your application/information sharing.

Can only be a good thing IMO.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the positive words and vibes guys (and gals), makes all the difference.

cinnamon_girl, good luck, and remember ‘nil carborundum illegitimi’.