Thanks for this link, my current the SC Chamelion is rated at 68 HA with a 515mm axle to crown about a 140mm fork since I’m running a 120mm that will put my HA around 69 if I change the fork to 130mm on the soul it will be around 69 as well but the well priced piglet with its slack HA angle is always going to be appealing

The Chameleon is 68 HA with 145mm forks extended, therefore ~70 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The Piglet is 68.5 HA with 120mm forks sagged, therefore ~67.5 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The 456EVO is 68.1 HA with 140mm forks sagged.
The Soul is 68.6 HA with 140mm forks sagged.

The 456EVO is 68.1 HA with 140mm forks sagged.

No. It’s 67.8deg with 140’s. It’s 68.1deg with 130’s.

456EVO does look nice – especially in the raw finish 😀

Will the “new” 456 ti be the same angles as the 456EVO?

Yes.

150mm geometry here – http://www.shedfire.com/2012/02/08/456-evo-geometry-150mm-fork/

Axle-crown height variance between different makes of similar sized forks caused the above confusion! Fox Float 32 140s are 510 axle-crown according to google but Revelation 130s are the same.

So if bikes are CEN tested for a given fork length, does that assume the longest A-C available for that travel?

Very happy Soul owner here and Cotic as a company has a “small and smart” feel good factor in addition to their responsiveness and helpfulness.

I’d also reckon that the resale value (and resale speed) of a Cotic frame will always be pretty good while the paint quality will make it look good even after some years of use.

Isn’t it great to have such good choices for anyones budget and priorities?!
No experience with Ragley but the On-One I had was great, too. Sorted geometry, nice steel feel, mavericky image, easy to resell. Brittle paint and high-ish weight was OK as the price is low. It’s a honest package!

Happy choosing! 🙂

I’d also reckon that the resale value (and resale speed) of a Cotic frame will always be pretty good while the paint quality will make it look good even after some years of use.

In my experience, the paint on Cotic frames isn’t great. It looks nice but chips easily. Dialled have far more solid paint jobs.

OK then, Dialled paint better than Cotic paint better than On-One paint 🙂
Where’s Ragley in that row?
And best paint is any paint with heli tape?!

I’m not a big paint worrier anyway.
Wear your scars with pride!

Is the Piglet not just cheap cromo, the Soul is 853 main triangle, you are not really comparing like for like so a price comparison is not really the way to do it ?

Surly it is, the question is does the 853* mean the soul is worth 100% more.

*or different it’s design entirely

Just wading in myself now. We’ve just sparked up a deal with a guy in Australia to do distribution on a small scale. Don’t know if he’s anywhere near you, but drop me a line and I’ll put you two together. He has a Soul himself and a few customers now so we may be able to sort something out for a ride. I’ve not ridden a Piglet so I can’t offer any help with comparisons, although numbers would lead me to believe they’ll be quite different in feel.

Reggie, that’s great info. Why do you find the Soul more comfortable

The BFe is burlier and stiffer, so a bit less forgiving than the Soul. The Soul has one of the best rear ends (!) I’ve had the pleasure of – just sublime. Comfy but taught. The BFe is more 456-like. Climbing and on flowing terrain the Soul is the better of the two but the BFe is superior when you start to chuck it about downhill. The frame is stiffer and more responsive. I find the Soul can get a bit flexy on the faster, rougher trails. It’s minor differences of course but – as with many thigs bike related – these can change the personality of the bike quite a bit.

Trails I ride include the Forest of Bowland, Gisburn, the Lakes etc.

Reggie, how much do you weigh?

i amazed how people can discern differing levels of ‘comfort’ when comparing mtb back-ends while riding a bike with 2.3 tyres at 30psi.

76kg, in the buff (although this is coming down as the roadie training kicks in…)

Both bikes run virtually the same rear wheel and exactly the same rear tyre (Fat Albert 2.25 UST). The Soul runs a smaller diameter seatpost though (27.2) to the BFe (31.6). Both are EA70s.

Interesting to know. I’m fractionally heavier than you and a relative newbie to modern MTBing and as I ride faster and harder it’s interesting to see how the bike responds and how I handle it. When you’re noticing the Soul flexing, is it in terms of the rear axle twisting and thus the rear wheel no longer going in a straight line?

cy – Member

Just wading in myself now. We’ve just sparked up a deal with a guy in Australia to do distribution on a small scale. Don’t know if he’s anywhere near you, but drop me a line and I’ll put you two together. He has a Soul himself and a few customers now so we may be able to sort something out for a ride. I’ve not ridden a Piglet so I can’t offer any help with comparisons, although numbers would lead me to believe they’ll be quite different in feel.

Email Sent, thanks Cy

The BFe is burlier and stiffer, so a bit less forgiving than the Soul. The Soul has one of the best rear ends (!) I’ve had the pleasure of – just sublime. Comfy but taught. The BFe is more 456-like. Climbing and on flowing terrain the Soul is the better of the two but the BFe is superior when you start to chuck it about downhill. The frame is stiffer and more responsive. I find the Soul can get a bit flexy on the faster, rougher trails. It’s minor differences of course but – as with many thigs bike related – these can change the personality of the bike quite a bit.

Trails I ride include the Forest of Bowland, Gisburn, the Lakes etc.

Thanks for that i already have a bike for the bigger trails so from that the Soul would be my pick of the two

We’ve just sparked up a deal with a guy in Australia to do distribution on a small scale.

Does this mean we’d have to pay inflated Australian prices? Most things bike-related seem to be at least double what they are in the UK…

zokes – Member

We’ve just sparked up a deal with a guy in Australia to do distribution on a small scale.

Does this mean we’d have to pay inflated Australian prices? Most things bike-related seem to be at least double what they are in the UK…
Just spoke with the Aussie supplier and it works out about the same

You’ve always got to factor in how much it costs to send stuff down under.

Most recent shipping quote I got to send a frame was £125. That’s why I always suggest people team up with a mate, buy a frame each at the same time, and get them shipped together in one box, as it halves the shipping cost per frame.

I’ve never ridden a Piglet but I just got me a Soul.
Everything you read about Souls is true… and a lot more!
Mine just puts a big fat grin on my face every time I ride it.
And I know everyone says it but it’s true – the FS never goes out any more. Oh, and Cotic are fantastic to deal with. Can’t recommend highly enough.

‘ve never ridden a Piglet but I just got me a Soul.
Everything you read about Souls is true… and a lot more!
Mine just puts a big fat grin on my face every time I ride it.
And I know everyone says it but it’s true – the FS never goes out any more. Oh, and Cotic are fantastic to deal with. Can’t recommend highly enough.

Just Got the Soul and had it out for its first ride last weekend its hands down the best hardtail I’ve ever ridden, I’m so happy I got it, I would have to agree with you that all the reviews are true it’s a fantastic frame.

MrSmith – Member

i amazed how people can discern differing levels of ‘comfort’ when comparing mtb back-ends while riding a bike with 2.3 tyres at 30psi.

Can’t speak for comfort but if you point a seriously stiff hardtail (Chameleon or Mmmbop, say) down a lumpy trail at speed then do the same with a pleasantly flexible frame (Soul or Ragley Ti, frinstance) then tbh I reckon the difference is unmissable. My ‘bop’s defining characteristing was having a front end that’d go anywhere I pointed it, and a rear end that went wherever it felt like 😉 Big difference in traction/groundholding.

About to press the button on a Soul myself when I saw this one on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COTIC-Lightweight-mens-bike-frame-Lightweight-reynolds-853-tubing-/170801704936?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27c4932fe8

Anyone take a guess on weather it’s a medium or small? The guy selling it is not responding and he claims it’s a 17″ frame.

My Soul is just wonderful, I love it. Not ridden a Ragley so possibly not helpful though!