I’m looking to get rid of one my full sus frames (Ellsworth Ephinany) and donate the parts to a hardtail frame. Undecided between Cotic Soul and On-One 456 Carbon?. Will be used for general trail work XC/trail centres/possibly mayhem style events if the mud is as bad as this year and winter too..Opinions please….

one of the new souls.

Look at it another way, premium Steel frame or cut price carbon.
If weight is everything to you then the 456 has it.
Otherwise its the Soul, period.

Well, the 456 would be a good chunk lighter and potentially half the price.

What size you looking at? The head tube on the 456 is tiny and takes internal bearings, whereas the Cotic takes external bearings on top of the head tube length, meaning no huge (or less of a) spacer stack if you need a higher front end.

Have a Soul myself, have never been a fan of the way the C456 looks, but a mate bought one recently inthe tone-down dark, no logos finish, and I thought it was very nice indeed. Both lovely bikes to ride.

Donor gear is 2008 ish so 1 1/8th steerer 140mm travel fox forks.Would mean adaptor headset and new seatpost too…Ive got a carbon 27.2mm which would fit a ‘classic’ soul. Bit worried forks are a bit long for Cotic but then again I do ride them quite soft as i’m not exactly heavy. Should have kept my Mk1 456 ti shouldn’t I….Doh!!.

cp I’m 6’1 but relatively short legs 32″ inside measurement and ride a medium Mojo sl and a large cannondale scalpel.

I have a BFe, fabulous bike.

Isn’t the 456 a bit more BFe like in terms of geometry and aspirations ? A bit lighter in Carbon of course. A BFe frame is £329 a bit less for the recently replaced model which is the one I have. A Prince Albert is a similar price if that’s the deciding factor, which IMO it shouldn’t be.

Yes you should have kept your mk1 456ti. Sold all my other bikes, including full suss, cos tis best and only greatest bike in world. Period.

Think Bfe might be a bit of a harsher ride as its a bit more hardcore. I like the idea of the soul having a bit of the steel zing I started mountain biking on all those years ago. I have read that C456 can be a bit harsh but the one i rode seemed ok.Dialled Prince albert looks good too. Anyone got one/seen one?.

Well, at least with short legs you wont need the seatpost super high like i do! I’m 6ft, but have 34″ inside legs, cue seatpost high and I need a bit of headtube length ideally.

I have a steel 456 and it’s great! Several years old now, and battered paintwork. Has seen many an XC and alps dh mile (and bizzarely rigid singlespeed CX racing), but keeps going.

Works nicely with fox talas 100-120-140.

teamslug – Member
Think Bfe might be a bit of a harsher ride as its a bit more hardcore.

I read all that stuff too which is why I pre-ordered a Prince Albert frame in case that turned out to be true. (I thought £500 for a Soul was bit pricey versus the other two at £300 each)

Answer was not at all, super zingy and fine for 6+ hours in the saddle and of course fun fun fun. To be fare I’ve not ridden a Soul so perhaps the BFe is harsher but it’s perfect for me (I’m definitely in the middle aged and aching category). I’m going to keep the PA too as a bit more XC and to use over the winter (seems a crime in some ways). The PA should arrive in a few days, its one of the Classics they just released.

You can get test rides on BFe/Soul/PA – if you were local to Surrey you’d be welcome to have a go on mine.

I’m one of the few that has a current gen Prince Albert and posts up here about it but I have no regrets in buying one over a Soul.

My mate very kindly lent me his Soul for extended periods several times before I bought the PA and even comparing the two since then it’s just as good a ride but different (more jumpy fun IMO.

The Cotic does look the best.

Any Carbon framed bike I’d be more worried about chipping from rocks etc but my carbon Taurine was damn fast. So if you obsess about frame integrity (irrationally like me) maybe veer towards steel. If you want to drop your mates on the climbs go Carbon.

Bfe.

That is all

They’re a bit different in use tbh. Leaving aside weight difference, C456 is built a bit burlier and will carry a longer fork. The handling is a little different between the two, as standard the C456 feels a bit longer and a bit more stable, and I think a wee bit more confidence inspiring on steeper stuff. But never quite matches the Soul’s handling overall- not as nice on the flat, not as good on the climbs for some reason I don’t understand at all. Soul is the better allrounder IMO, I don’t think there’s anywhere it gives away much to the C456 and there’s a few places it has a decent advantage. Soul feels refined, C456 still looks like a prototype.

My C456 is slacked off though with a Works headset and that puts more ground between them- changes the focus towards descending a bit. Now you could do that with a Soul too but I’ve not seen anyone do it, it works very well with the C456 but not with all frames.

So, as standard, Soul>C456, other’n weight. Slacked, neither is better, it’s more apples and oranges.

Oh- finish of my Soul was fantastic, finish of my C456 is frankly ****. I don’t mind but it scratches very easily. I guess that’s how you can tell it’s a proper On One.

Thanks for the input guys. The pipedream bikes looks nice too. Never considered those but good price too. Not sure if they are suitable for a 140mm fork though

What’s the mud clearance like on the C456? Soul copes pretty well in the mud considering my penchant for big tyres!

mud clearance is massive

I’ve done the 456 thing…………..GO SOUL

Prince Albert Classics arrive on Monday (so all pre-order customers should have theirs by the following Monday).

Reynolds 725 Prince Alberts now on sale to make way for the Classics:
http://dialledbikes.bigcartel.com/product/dialled-bikes-prince-albert-reynolds-725-frames

C456 has swap-out drop-outs for nice neat single speeding if that’s a consideration

Northwind, you do know that for every reason you’ve described the Soul’s handling being better than your C456, it’s because it’s steeper and better balanced. And then you’ve got a slackset on yours! Stick a normal headset in it, or even turn the slackset the wrong way round, and some of the handling balance will come back at the expense of DH stability.

There’s too much emphasis on “slacker is better” these days. Did you get the email off Cy the other day about the changes to the new Soul and BFe? In it he discussed how he tried out a couple of Soul and BFe prototypes with slightly slacker head angles but they upset the balance a bit, made the handling slightly more ponderous, and though they were ultimately more stable on the downhills (the main benefit of a slack head angle), the compromises everywhere else were too great he felt. Not being funny, but there’s lots of people on here that will talk all sorts of things about geometry. It’s the likes of Cy and Brant who are designing the things, riding the prototypes, then putting the finishing touches on them before they go to production that I will trust.

To each their own, but I prefer a better balanced bike all round than a downhill demon that is a bit lethargic elsewhere. I’ve ridden and owned bikes from both Cotic and On One, and paint finish and material aside (Cotic win here, but then you pay for it) I generally prefer Cotic’s geometry to On One’s.

Moving onto materials… I’d rather a nice steel frame over a cheap carbon one any day. Top notch carbon fibre is a wonderful material. Be under no illusion though that the C456 is the more budget stuff.

Pipedream scion fine for 130mm forks.love mine to bits!

C456 may be ‘cheap’ carbon but it’s one he’ll of a bike for the money. Not arguing that Cotics win the beauty contest but I also like my C456’s low-down purposeful looks

mboy – Member

Northwind, you do know that for every reason you’ve described the Soul’s handling being better than your C456, it’s because it’s steeper and better balanced. And then you’ve got a slackset on yours! Stick a normal headset in it, or even turn the slackset the wrong way round, and some of the handling balance will come back at the expense of DH stability.

Nah, you’ve misunderstood mate- the opening part is me describing the C456 as standard, I rode it like that for ages. And IMO just like the steel 456 it plays the same game as the Soul but does it less well. All relative- Soul is the best at its game, C456 is merely good.

The slackset puts water between them but also makes it more the bike I want. I sold my Soul because as excellent as it was, its focus wasn’t right for me, the C456 is closer. I think it works a lot better slacked than it does standard- it doesn’t give away very much (and only in areas where it’s already kinda undistinguished) but it gains a lot.

As for trusting designers- I put the reducer headset in my Hemlock after Cy tried it in his and blogged the results (and remember, that proved part of the inspiration for the Rocket).

And Brant, well, it was my Mmmbop that inspired me to try it in the 456. I did it before he bought a Works headset (and thus invented the Slackset 😉 ) but he did catch up, and he said:

“Slacker head angles are fun. They make you ride your bike in a different way. More standing and weighting the front. Pinning the front wheel. With the head angle slacker you can put more weight through the front without the risk on being thrown over the bars. The slacker angle means the front of the bike is lower, the BB is lower to improve stability, the seat angle is steeper which helps climbing. Slacker is better for a lot of things.”

So yep, I trust Cy and Brant 😉

God, I do write a lot when I’m tired.