Hi Folks,

I did try and post earlier this morning – cant find it anywhere. User error most likely…

Anyway, I have been reunited with my 853 Dialled Prince Albert, bought new in maybe 2012 ish from Mike at Dialled Bikes and sold a few years back and bought back last week!

Wanted to give it a lease of life, modernise a bit maybe. I have tried to contact Mike, he used to be on this forum, but I cant get hold of him.

So, bikes of that era – Gen 1 Soul / Blue Pig / On One 456 etc. Has anybody put:

Longer forks on? Mine came with 140mm Revs – wonder if I could go to 160mm?

I dont like the 69 Mullet – but wondered if anybody has done 26 at the back and 650b at the front?

Would be good to hear. Conversely, good to hear if they are just old bikes and nobody rides them these days!

Cheers,

Dave

Our old PA is kicking around Dunblane. I had a ride up and down the kerb on it a couple of weeks ago.

It is such old skool geometry, it always felt totally dead and lumpen heavy next to my Sanderson Breath, and just felt ‘odd’…I was almost embarrassed to have sold it to a friend who uses it to ride with his kids at times (who are both on Whyte 160mm trail bikes now…).

I think geometry has moved on so much – and that has been the real gain of the last decade in mountainbiking….

I *think* the Dialled bike chap  moved to USA?

I was riding mine last night!

I was riding everything inc. Rogate, BPW, Basque uplifts and having a ball with it until late 2019 when I got a more modern 29er. Dual Position Sektors 120mm -150mm set to 150 most of the time.

Fork’s now at 120mm, all the knobs to all the way hard with Billy Bonkers tyres on being ridden on pump tracks and (tiny) DJ and occasional trailer rides with the kids. Still nice!

You’ll struggle to modernise it that much, but no reason you can’t have a tonne of fun on it.

150mm travel was pushing it a bit. It was designed for 100 – 140. BB probably a bit high at 160? Getting straight steerer forks will be the tricky part. 650b front and forks at 130mm might work well? can’t go angleset with the headtube, unless there’s something I don’t know about.

also riding a 1999 hardtail – now rigid, plus front tyre, big risers and SS. that’s nice too. Not modern, though.

I had a 456 Summer Season with 160mm Marzocchi 66 RC2X coil forks on. It was great as long as I didn’t have to pedal up a hill. I’d not paid much attention to weight so it was built like a tank and would just plough through stuff but because it was so slack all my (not inconsiderable) weight was over the back on climbs.

I think the Soul was only rated to 140mm, you’d need a BFe for 160mm.

I’m riding my 2008 Soul (I’m not sure what version it is TBH, but I think it’s post-CEN) still.

Up until a couple of years ago it was my only bike so I rode it for everything and loved it.

Since I’ve ridden more modern geometry it feels tiny, twitchy, and all round terrifying 🙂

I still love it though. It pedals nicely, and I’ve built it up singlespeed which means its so light it’s just a joy to ride. I use it now where you might use a gravel bike — bit of tarmac, bit of cycle path, bit of double-track, bit of mellow singletrack.

I think if you want a trail bike, then IMO it makes sense to have something a bit more up to date. They’re just better for the job.

Since I’ve ridden more modern geometry it feels tiny, twitchy, and all round terrifying 🙂

Ha! I had to send my LLS-ish 29er back and rode the PA for general mtbing – Surrey Hills and Rogate. 3 big crashes in 2 rides! 😀

I had 2 Dialled PA’s years ago (And an Alpine!).

I wouldnt overdo it with the travel, I’d stick to 120, maybe 130mm. I’d focuse on a good supportive fork setup, you dont want lots of dive and wallow (as thats what gives you those dramatic geo changes on a hardtail).

I’d have a look to see what headset options there are to slacken it off, is possible – that would be good! (Never used them, not sure if available for straight headtube/steerers).

Interesting to read the comments above as I found my Dialled PA a lot more ‘zingy’ than the Cotic I also had.

456 some time ago. Never ran longer than 140.

Shouldn’t matter what wheel size you run as long as you keep an eye on the axle to crown. If you went longer forks and bigger wheels it would be a bit chopperish.

Longer forks slacken it off and increase the BB height.

I had Mk1 Dialled Prince Albert that I absolutely ragged the heck out of including smashing it around the alps for a long summer.  It was definitely a stiff frame, which for me was a very good thing as I can get things to flex quite a bit.

It had 3 sets of forks on it in it’s time.

Fox Talas 130mm

Marzocchi Z1 FR SL 130mm (which was A LOT longer axle to crown than the Fox and I think longer than thePike at 140mm)

Rock Shox Pike U-Turn (the old ones) at which you could adjust between 80 and 140mm.

I definitely liked it with a longer fork, big thick side walled tyres and the oh so ’00s Double and Bash gearing.

You might be able to go to 150mm (check A-C measurements) but 160mm will be far too much.  The next trick will be finding a straight steerer fork in 26in (tricky) and a 27.2 dropper (less tricky).

I had the 853 version for a bit. 2007ish. Rode it loads in the Chilterns and also in the Peak a few times. It replaced a (Pre-Cen I think) Soul. Even the 853 version was noticeably stiffer.

130mm forks I think. Still going as a commuter bike for my mate in London. Not sure I’d want to ride it now tho!

but wondered if anybody has done 26 at the back and 650b at the front?

Yes, but on a frame designed for 650b… slackened it off and lowered the BB without putting extra stresses on the frame or having to reduce fork travel. The trade offs are different when using a frame designed for 26.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have a 2020 Merida E-160. A 2019 Transition Smuggler with 150mm Lyrics. And will soon have a 2021 Transitional Sentinel.

Also have my 1993 Kona Lava Done (garage queen) and my old 853 PA. I am never going to ride it for more than an hours nostalgic blast locally! Got an external dropper for it and certainly makes it a lot less sketchy downhill.

Interestingly BITD, I had a Soul and a 725 and an 853 PA and like the PA’s much better.

I took the PA to the Alps and the Pyrenes. Crazy to think that now. Its so steep and short compared to modern LLS 29ers!

So, I think the outcome of this – I am going to keep it as it was in 2013 and just enjoy stepping back in time to when bikes where twitchy and scary!!!

I think bike are as good as they have ever been, but I have great memories with the Kona and the PA and like to have them in the garage as part of the “fleet”

Dave

This was mine, I miss it a bit. This is before I put Hope M4s on it.

Before it was like this I had 140mm Revs on it and before those I ran it with 100mm Recons. I think 140mm was the sweet spot.

I’ve been using my Cove HJ as a bridleway bimbler with the kids. The geometry just feels bizarre, almost like it wants to buck you over the bars!
Will stick to the modern 29er FS for anything pointing downhill!

can’t go angleset with the headtube, unless there’s something I don’t know about

Just seen this. I’ve bought a Works angleset for my old Simple… as long as your steerer is long enough, you should be able to as well.

I’m still running a Soul with the straight steerer as my only bike, albeit cos there’s no stock of anything I want.

It’s got u-turns at 135mm, runs beautifully on old school XC runs and (non bike park) trail centres. Should get a dropper post really.

Older bikes have much slacker seat angles. Along wiuth the fact most people went down a size and used an offset seatpost to enable putting a short stem on (what were we thinking??).

At some point with longer forks you’re going to feel very crunched up and far back.

I still want a modern 29er full suss though, to compensate for my lack of skill!

Looking at the angles on it fitting a higher front end (either 27.5 MX or big travel) will make teh geometry more like the BFE I’m riding.

70/74 ht/st might become 68/72 my BFE with 140mm is 67/72. I’ve thought about going MX or even just putting a 27.5 fork in. More as a sneaky way to upgrade and eventually move to a full 27.5 bike at some point when a frame appears at the right price. I think just putting a 27.5 fork of the same length on slackens everything by 0.4 degrees.

My 2012 PA “classic” is still being ridden. Had to buy a new tyre and chain for it the other week. My son has it at uni while he’s there and we recently did the jacobs ladder loop from hayfield with him riding it and me on my lls 29er (last fast forward). He seems to manage fine on it- pike air uturn 454s, 1×10 slx/zee/xt mix. Xfusion hilo dropper and arch ex on superstar hubs. Ive barely thrown a leg over it since 2018 when I got my first 29er but when I rode it recently after changing the chain it just felt tiny and so unstable. As above I bought a 17” frame for “chuckability” so the reach is tiny for me. Even the 19 would have been short by modern standards. Reach wasn’t quoted back then. I wouldn’t want to ride it down anything techy nowadays

You’ll struggle to find a 650b fork with. Straight 1 1/8 steerer I suspect. I measured the ha with unsaved 140 forks at somewhere around 67-68 with iPhone Clinometer I think. I suspect it’s next guise will be as rigid pub hack when the pikes eventually die.

Just seen this. I’ve bought a Works angleset

I ran one of those on my 2006 Marin alpine trail along with offset bushes. Seemed like it was an improvement at the time. Not sure I’d spend £70 slackerising the pa though

Also had a 456ss. I liked that frame a lot and sold it when I’d got the PA. Summer Season was definitely better downhill. The PA was more comfy on all dayers though. Fair bit of flex in the stays.

I had an 853 PA circa 2007 and a Cotic Soul before that. I currently own and am comfortable with a Chromag with 500+mm reach and 64 head angle. So when a buddy gave me his V1 Cotic BFe a while back I built it up as my long distance / gravel type bike. But like people above, it just felt terrifying!
I thinking keeping it as it is for occasional retro type riding is probably the wise move.

This must explain why I feel so scared on my bike all the time. Short reach for my height although 67 head tube angle doesn’t scream steep to me.

I’ve been riding my Charge Duster with Maverick SC32 fork the last couple of days. And it didn’t feel like it was going to kill me.
And now I’ve got a funny feeling for the Cotic Simple with full XTR and Magura fork I saw for sale in Run&Ride on Cannock Chase on Sunday.
26″ singlespeed and absolutely immaculate for £499. Should I, shouldn’t I?

Greetings John! I imagine the Chase would be one of the areas where ‘old school’ geometry would still be pretty good. Fast but narrow trails, mellow grade and quick changes of direction. Conversely I bet my Chromag would be terrible.

Er, yes, Will, except the Duster was being ridden on green lanes and with my grandson on the kiddy seat…

Still ride my 853 pa a lot. Got some 140mm revelations on it. I love it still, can handle interesting xc on it. Yeah it isn’t a stable or a fast as my 2021 scout but that’s fine in a lot of cases it is more fun.
If you are crashing on some bikes but not others that points to something fundamental wrong with your skill set

If you are crashing on some bikes but not others that points to something fundamental wrong with your skill set

bizarre comment. I don’t think I’ve ever crashed on my roadbike. If I tried to ride Rogate at the same speed as I ride my Signal, I certainly would.

I binned it so much on the PA because it felt familiar, I rode it for years and knew it back-to-front, but hadn’t realised how much extra margin/capability/grip/speed I’d got used to having on the Signal.