Cotic Soul 650b

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  • Cotic Soul 650b
  • Premier Icon andytherocketeer
    Subscriber

    I’d give it a new name much like the Solaris isn’t called the Soul29.
    So that’s a no imo, even if Cy does do a 650b specific frame.

    catvet
    Member

    Anyone think its going to happen, given the more recent move to 650b size for “trail” bikes?

    slimjim78
    Member

    I for one would want to purchase said frame, should it exist.

    Ive toyed with idea of Solaris for ages but am struggling to forgive the rear tyre clearance issues.
    Im also very tempted to buy a Mk3 Soul to replace my Mk2 as id love to fit a Reverb and tapered steerer, but despite loving my current Soul I cant help feel the 26ers are genuinely going to die out (and start/continue to look a bit odd to boot) over the next 2 or 3 years.

    Im struggling to invest my hard earned into what, like it or not, is facing obsolesence sooner rather than later. Im just hearing too many good things about 650b to be convinced that its worth plugging away with 26″.

    matther01
    Member

    650b might be here to stay, but it’s taken 29ers a couple of years to get sorted…so I’d wait a couple of years.

    You can always buy a new Soul and sell it at decent price a year from now if in good nick….but I’d still keep it.

    That said the new Pace steel 650b looks good…but customer service as good a Cy…?

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
    Subscriber

    I’d like to say I’ve heard lots of good things, but in reality, I’ve never actually come across anyone with a 650b. Which is not surprising since 2013 model 650b’s were most mfrs making a token 650b, and 2014 ones where it seems to be a big part of the line up, aren’t even in the shops yet.

    So in reality, all the good things I’ve heard are a few magazine reviews, mostly saying it’s coming, and there’s no stopping it. ANd that 650b only takes the positives of 26 and 29, but none of the negatives (apart from 1 reviewer who dared to say the complete opposite, and that it’s a compromise that loses the rollability of 29 and the turnability of 26)

    Still… I’m sure there’ll be a market for a Steel 650b 853 Hardtail with a Cotic badge on at some point in the future, but it won’t be a Soul. And if it’s good and better than my Soul for the riding I do, I’d probably put it on my wish list.

    Got to be called a solar surely – halfway between a soul nad a Solaris
    I’ve been playing around with 650b on my bfe, but the bottom bracket sits noticeably higher and it screws with the ride
    I still like the acceleration you get from a smaller wheel though too
    A solar would be on my birthday list though

    rewski
    Member

    I’ve seen a fair few 650b on my local trails, the small Kinesis Sync’s is 650b, looks lovely, med and large 29, makes sense to me. Lapierre 2014 AM line up looks good too.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I cant help feel the 26ers are genuinely going to die out (and start/continue to look a bit odd to boot) over the next 2 or 3 years

    I can assure you that my 26er will not die out over the next 2 to 3 years. Neither will my 29er for that matter. Why would they? Whether they look odd just depends what you are used to I guess.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    To be honest I reckon Cy’d be daft not to- there’s no bikey reason to make the change but the way things are going, daft people will see it as old hat or even obsolete if it’s not the new cool pointless thing. You can’t fight city hall

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    slimjim78 – Member

    I cant help feel the 26ers are genuinely going to die out … over the next 2 or 3 years.

    they really won’t.

    and start/continue to look a bit odd to boot

    you can’t tell the difference!

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    To be honest I reckon Cy’d be daft not to- there’s no bikey reason to make the change but the way things are going, daft people will see it as old hat or even obsolete if it’s not the new cool pointless thing. You can’t fight city hall

    I’d agree if Cotic were a mass market producer. But do you not think there is a market out there of folk who don’t like the move to 650b and might actually be looking for a company that won’t jump on the bandwagon? To be honest I have no idea if this market exists or how big it might be, but if you are a niche manufacturer it might be a niche worth going after.

    rewski
    Member

    According to Scott 27.5 is the new industry standard, only their basic entry level bikes and dh are 26.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    That’s ok – I don’t like Scott bikes :mrgreen:

    grievoustim
    Member

    for a small company like cotic I imagine it’s not too much of a risk

    get a 650b frame out there, but keep selling the 26 and 29ers too, then order in batches of frames based on customer demand for them.

    rewski
    Member

    That’s ok – I don’t like Scott bikes

    me neither but millions globally do

    slimjim78
    Member

    I’m not trying to be controversial on purpose (honest) and im not suggesting that the 26er you actually own will suddenly die.. But I am suggesting that its highly likely that sooner than most people realise you will not be able to head to a LBS and pick up a new 26er.
    Therefore, and weirdly, 26ers will become niche in their own right.

    Several manufacturers have already dropped 26 or are doing so for next season, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they go back to them again in the future but i rather feel that the standard will genuinely have moved on and the 26er you covet so much will have become, gulp, a Retro Bike..

    Question: is it not remotely possible that despite furor over marketing hype etc, that 650b or even 29″ could genuinely be progressive?
    They laughed at suspension. They scoffed at 120mm travel. Disc brakes were overkill..

    Scamper
    Member

    Wasn’t the mini rocket due out by now? Just hope they have not delayed due to experimenting with odd wheel sizes – hopefully Paul has put cy straight on this 🙂

    slimjim78
    Member

    You can always buy a new Soul and sell it at decent price a year from now if in good nick….but I’d still keep it.

    I’ve considered this, but it might be like trying to flog a dead donkey in a couple of years!

    Imagine the absurdity:

    “Can you even buy tyres for that!?”

    slimjim78
    Member

    Interestingly I’ve contacted them twice about the mini rocket and am yet to receive a response. Subsequently they responded right away when I showed interest in a Solaris..

    From what I’ve been able to gather the mini Rocket is dead in the water, Cy appears to see little need for one after all as the standard Rocket handles so well. Apparently.
    I could be wrong and would be happy to be so!

    Premier Icon Bregante
    Subscriber

    Imagine the absurdity:

    “Can you even buy tyres for that!?”

    Yep.

    Absurd.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    I bought a new Soul 4 months ago having gone through similar ‘soul searching’ 🙂 29’er isn’t ideal for me and the riding I do, 26 or 650B suits best. I very much hope I can still get wheels/tyres/stuff for it in 3 or 4 yrs time…..

    My decision came down to what was currently available and would suit me best, who knows whats round the corner.

    maybe I should start stockpiling Spesh Purgarory 26 tyres ????

    Premier Icon cy
    Subscriber

    Tyre manufacturers aren’t suddenly going to stop making 26″ tyres, and from what I’ve seen 26″ options on forks will be available throughout the next few years, plus with 650B being so close to 26″, 650B and 26″ forks can share a lower casting (which is the expensive bit) so really 26″ is going nowhere despite what the mainstream is telling you.

    Mini Rocket isn’t dead at all, we just haven’t finished it yet and as we’re working with a new supplier on FS and still need to get Rockets to people we’re concentrating on what people are waiting for.

    I think I’ve been mis-quoted on the need for a 5″ bike. I can totally see a need for it, it’s just I do think people are (inevitably for a small company where bikes aren’t everywhere) a bit quick to judge the Rocket based on it’s numbers when with fast tyres it’s a hoot on easier trails. That said, the 5″ prototypes whip round tighter singletrack berms and hairpins and such a bit easier than the Rocket. When we asked our mailing list and Facebook groups about which frame to develop the overwhelming response was a 5″ more all round version of the Rocket.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    So, 650b soul or not Cy?

    mansonsoul
    Member

    /\ I love Cotic!
    Keep up the great work Cy!

    brooess
    Member

    so really 26″ is going nowhere despite what the mainstream is telling you.

    This is the most welcome news I’ve heard on the whole 650B palaver, which I think the industry has mishandled badly. They appear not to have realised that social media gives their customers a voice…

    Introducing a new wheel size is fine by me – if people want it, they’ll buy it. What’s important is that the installed based on 26 inchers is continued to be supported as well as it is now, if that’s what customers want.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    They appear not to have realised that social media gives their customers a voice.

    But not everyone I’m in contact with is upset about losing 26″ two riding buddies are having new bikes, one 27.5 & one 29″ both coming from small wheel bikes.so there are two sides to every story

    Premier Icon cy
    Subscriber

    Exactly brooess. We are looking at 650b, but nothing’s decided yet. I’ve not even ridden a 650b yet. If we do something it won’t be at the expense of 26″. We can quite happily run all three wheel sizes along side eachother if we have to, which gives consumers a choice, not the fait complait the rest of the industry seem to be determined to foist upon you.

    If you’ll allow me to jump on my soapbox for a moment, the whole thing with deleting 26″ model lines has the potential to be quite a misfire for some of the bigger companies. Tyres aren’t cheap these days, and if you’re on here you’re probably one of the (reasonably significant) chunk of consumers who have 2-3 sets of tyres for different conditions, maybe a heavy duty set of wheels for Alps/uplifts. You’ve probably got £500-£600 worth of 26″ gear that the big brands are asking you to bonfire for 1% extra rollover. Why would you consider that? I’m not saying 650B is rubbish, I’m sure these 650B bikes are a bunch of fun, just like my 26″ and 29″ bikes are, I just think it’s a much bigger question in terms of money and flexibility of choice than it might first appear.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I can see why people who are trying to flog 650b bikes want us to believe that 26″ bikes will die out. I just can’t see why anybody falls for it. If your favourite bike happens to have 650b wheels then buy it, but don’t be conned into buying a bike that you don’t like out of some fear that the wheels on the bike you do like are going to become less fashionable.

    650b may become the most popular wheel size in future. I don’t know. But neither does anybody else and anybody who claims they do is either deluding themselves or has an agenda.

    My own guess (and it’s just that) is that 650b will only survive long term if it can replace both 26″ and 29ers. It makes some sense as a “middle way” compromise that allows manufacturers to go back to only having one wheel size across their range (which saves on some costs). But will the DH guys give up their 26″ bike? Will the long distance and XC race guys (plus hordes of Yanks) give up their 29ers? Not without a fight.

    If we are going to end up with two wheel sizes then 26″ and 29er is the obvious choice and 650b may die out. Having ridden 26″ and 29ers I’d say that a 10% change in wheel size is about the smallest change you can make and still make a difference that can be felt. Anything less is change for the sake of change.

    The worst outcome, for consumers and manufacturers, is three wheel sizes as that just creates confusion and drives up costs. But that still may be where we end up.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    cy:we’re working with a new supplier on FS

    That wouldn’t be a new supplier in a different geographical location by any chance?

    Premier Icon cy
    Subscriber

    Of course it is. Different frame suppliers don’t tend to work out of the same exact location. QED.

    If you’ll allow me to jump on my soapbox for a moment, the whole thing with deleting 26″ model lines has the potential to be quite a misfire for some of the bigger companies. Tyres aren’t cheap these days, and if you’re on here you’re probably one of the (reasonably significant) chunk of consumers who have 2-3 sets of tyres for different conditions, maybe a heavy duty set of wheels for Alps/uplifts. You’ve probably got £500-£600 worth of 26″ gear that the big brands are asking you to bonfire for 1% extra rollover. Why would you consider that? I’m not saying 650B is rubbish, I’m sure these 650B bikes are a bunch of fun, just like my 26″ and 29″ bikes are, I just think it’s a much bigger question in terms of money and flexibility of choice than it might first appear.

    Exactly, 26″ is still relevant, especially in the niche world of steel hardtails, 4x bikes, dirt jumps bikes, slopestyle bikes etc. etc.

    From what I’ve seen (not alot admittedly) the 650b bikes seem to mainly be these lightweight, long travel full sussers that I guess alot of those over the pond ride

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    OK, cy, fair enough 🙂

    chives
    Member

    I can’t imagine why the component manufacturers (be it forks, tyres, rims WHY) would just scrap or mothball their (significant) investment in 26″ tooling either – surely from a sales point of view, if you can offer three options rather than two or worse still just one, then you’d be in with a greater chunk of market share would you not? Potential confusion due to crass marketing strategies notwithstanding.

    Happy with my 26″ wheels for what it’s worth.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Mmm. Inventory and economies of scale basically, 650b marketing is a zero-sum game, doesn’t increase the size of the market in the longterm, it just increases the number of products in the market and gives them all a new thing to fight over. You can’t tell me the tyre manufacturers (for example) will be delighted to have to carry 50% more products in order to sell the same number of tyres, that’ll inevitably increase overheads and cut margins. Their short-term goal is to take a larger share of the 650b market and to sell some extra tyres as people replace perfectly good 26er tyres, but the long-term goal has to be to rationalise their product ranges (unless they are all damn fools)

    Premier Icon P20
    Subscriber

    A 650b Soul Though more hybrid style

    Premier Icon eat_more_cheese
    Subscriber

    Previous owner of my mk3 soul ran with 650b, not sure about front mech clearance though. Would be interested to know the radius of 26″ rims running some 2.35’s compared to 650 rim with a 2.1. Thought about a hybrid build myself, but concerned about raising the bb height. With 2.25’s on my current soul I find it the best handling HT around (but I have only ridden the Explosif 650b)

    Scamper
    Member

    Like many on here I fall into the camp of building up my 26″ kit to swap between frames, so as Cy indicates i’m in no rush to convert to a different wheel size. So if i’m in the market to replace my Bfe with a full susser, my choice may be limited in the future. Its the same with running 9 speed stuff.

    Things are slightly different for a full bike although wondering how many purchases are made on the fear of being obsolete or lack of 26″ choice for the particular bike in question, rather than any perceived benefits.

    slimjim78
    Member

    Thanks for the input Cy!
    Good to know the mini Rocket is alive.

    And sod it, I want a Mk3 Soul. May go green this time..

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    And sod it, I want a Mk3 Soul. May go green this time..

    [/quote]

    Nah, Orange is original and best 🙂

    [quote]

    Premier Icon Sanny
    Subscriber

    Now I’m not wanting to infer that you are small, Iain but your pic appears life size to me! 😀

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 57 total)

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