Cotic Rocket to be UK made…

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  • Cotic Rocket to be UK made…
  • I think “most of the mountain bike population” is the US & the rest of Europe & I doubt that many of those have heard of a small UK designer who makes hardcore HT frames. I presume Cy is trying to make a living not just doing it for love so narrowing your market to a few riders in the UK who have 26″forks and wheels knocking about (afterall all other bits will fit any bike) is a bit of a gamble given the money that must have been invested in the venture

    They’re making 50 frames for the first batch – how big a market will it take to consume them? Do you honestly think they’ve somehow managed to build a production facility which can only work with one arbitrary wheel size?

    50 frames? Is that even a production run, I wonder when you could get a go on one as it seems a good upgrade path to go from my current ride which is 26 inch.

    MrSmith
    Member

    If they have any business sense the expensive cnc/milling machines will be running all the time and making other things for paying clients. A big investment to make if it’s a case of ‘let’s make 50 frames and see what happens?’
    Hope have got it right as they run 24/7

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    They’re making 50 frames for the first batch – how big a market will it take to consume them?

    i hope they aren’t planning to retire on 50 frames worth of profit, i hope Mr Smith is right

    shermer75
    Member

    This is all great news for the British bike industry and I couldn’t think if a brand I’d rather have pioneering the way than Cotic. Great stuff!

    Hope have got it right as they run 24/7

    Making high volumes ,not 50 if hope were making 50 of something do you thing a machine would need to run 24 hours a day, if it did they might need to turn up the speed knob a bit

    shermer75
    Member

    It all makes sense now. With the cost of bike bits going up since 2008 I suppose it was on the cards that at some point manufacturing in the UK might make sense again. It also doesn’t surprise me that Cotic were the ones to move on this first, it always seemed to me that there are some really bright cookies over there!

    MrSmith
    Member

    Making high volumes ,not 50 if hope were making 50 of something do you thing a machine would need to run 24 hours a day, if it did they might need to turn up the speed knob a bit

    missing the point. if hope were making 50 of something the expensive machines would be idle and not earning money.

    missing the point. if hope were making 50 of something the expensive machines would be idle and not earning money.

    Yep so having a CNC machines to make a batch of 50 means that machines must now be stood idle, I can’t see how there would be a need for a company like Cotic to have machines running 24hours a day even if they were making hundreds of frames a month.

    A couple of links and a couple of dropouts is completely insignificant to what Hope make in a shift let alone a day, I suppose its kind of moot Hope have been manufacturing in the UK for a long time before any others thought of bandwagon leaping.

    MrSmith
    Member

    I can’t see how there would be a need for a company like Cotic to have machines running 24hours a day

    i wasn’t suggesting they would need to run 24/7 but that building 50 bikes and doing no other revenue generating production with expensive equipment was not an ideal way to run a business.

    i was using hope as an example of a business that was maximising their profits after investing heavily in manufacturing technology, you only have to look at their hope-hoops business model where they are effectively giving you the rims and build at cost and making money on the hub so their wheels are a no-brainer purchase as it would cost you more to buy the components on their own.

    sorry if that got you a bit confused.

    There’s absolutely no need to have CNC machines running 24/7. All that matters is their output is cost effective when everything is considered. The bigger and more expensive the machine, the greater the likelihood that it’ll need to run most of the time but that also means you need to have enough stuff to make on it. The facility Hope have is at one end of the spectrum, vastly expensive machines and high output whilst someone like Works Components is making similar things on much smaller scale with a much less expensive machine and I highly doubt they’re running 24/7 (well maybe now with the demand for the chainrings but not before). The smaller machines are no less good, they just tend to work slower and require more human intervention. But the capital cost is far lower so you don’t need to work them as hard to justify the investment.

    At work we used to outsource to subcontractors – then we bought a CNC machine to do it ourselves and despite the cost and steep learning curve it’s easily paid for itself. It runs a few hours a day, five days a week.

    vorlich
    Member

    I’m sure I read somewhere (twitter?) that the cost of outsourcing CNC bits for rapid prototyping etc in the first year would cost around 70% of buying a CNC machine. Seems like a no brainer.

    Premier Icon colournoise
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    misinformer – Member
    50 frames? Is that even a production run, I wonder when you could get a go on one as it seems a good upgrade path to go from my current ride which is 26 inch

    Cy runs regular demo days. Sign up for the Cotic newsletter and you’ll get first notice of this year’s dates.

    If you read the press release, the detail is that they will also make frames for other manufacturers, I guess that is the business case for the joint venture manufacturing facility.
    Richard

    andyl
    Member

    and tooling (ie moulds) for composite frames

    Unless I’m missing something (wouldn’t be the first time!) why would cotic not manufacture their other frames at this facility? Doesn’t really stack up, unless Cy is actually planning this, but doesn’t want to piss off the current manufacturers as they’re not ready to do it at the moment.

    Capacity and risk, I’m guessing. Limited space, machines and budget so they can’t make a lot of frames (initially), plus it would be a bigger risk to take his existing, successful business and transplant it whole to the UK. This is a separate company, and if for whatever reason it doesn’t work out, Cotic is still there. Sensible stuff.

    Of course, if it’s a massive success, then no doubt stuff will start to move over.

    andyl
    Member

    because the figures probably still work out best to get the run of the mill steel frames welded in Taiwan. They are just regular steel tubes unlike the rocket which is more complicated with aluminium machining for the aluminium swing arm, bonded shock lugs on the frame etc etc.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Nobeerinthefridge – Member

    Unless I’m missing something (wouldn’t be the first time!) why would cotic not manufacture their other frames at this facility?

    They’ve got the production of the hardtails pretty much spot on already, there’s probably less reason to want to change than there was with the Rocket.

    and tooling (ie moulds) for composite frames

    Eh? Maybe I’m not following along but they make steel frames.
    How did you make that jump? Further how would they even make the jump to composite frames.

    funklenut
    Member

    As I understand it the company Cy has co-founded is Bicycle Manufacturing Ltd. This company is capable of building Steel, Alu, Ti and Carbon frames. Cotic are the just first customer they are building frames for. Cotic themselves may stay with steel and not go carbon, although I’m sure that I read that Cy has considered other materials, just that steel made more sense with his designs so far. BML can and are planning to build for other customers who might want to use the other materials.

    andyl
    Member

    Eh? Maybe I’m not following along but they make steel frames.
    How did you make that jump? Further how would they even make the jump to composite frames

    You need to read the article on the STW news page and the background on Mike (the guy teaming up with Cotic) and all will become clear.

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