Thanks for all the advice, I feel a lot more comfortable with the DB IL now so will refrain from ringing up cotic in the morning. I wasn’t really expecting to be buying a bike this weekend so will need to put some time into spec-ing the rest of the build now… and count some pennies

In this case he knows that the inherent characteristics of certain shocks will spread peak loads over time enough to keep the frame intact. He doesn’t *know* that about others.

He specced a shock with a climbing mode that is presumably a lockout with blowoff valve. Forgetting to unlock that when you start a descent will make much more difference to peak loads than a shock with a different tune. This idea that the shock characteristics will make any appreciable difference to loads on the frame is utter nonsense.

Thanks. Looks like a great UK orientated bike.

that is presumably a lockout with blowoff valve

It’s not. Adds more LSC, but still plenty active.

They also spec a super deluxe with a much more traditional lockout so the point still stands..

And when the db shocks are so adjustable you can pretty much set it up any way you like without playing around with internal tunes. I’m sure you could set up the db air to ride much much worse and transmit a more force to the frame than say a fox dpx2 that doesn’t quite have the perfect tune for example.

The above might be true, but the bikes/frames are shipped with the ‘standard Cotic tune’ are they not?

Anybody can **** up a shock’s settings but it will also (probably) ride like a bag of shite.

I bought a (non-Cotic) frame that had a completely mismatched shock supplied as standard that I ended up getting an upgrade off the importer for as rebound was either really slllloooowww or buckeroo. Over one click. Pretty much unridable.

Whilst Cotic’s policy seems OTT maybe they have (good engineering) reasons for it?

And when the db shocks are so adjustable you can pretty much set it up any way you like without playing around with internal tunes. I’m sure you could set up the db air to ride much much worse and transmit a more force to the frame than say a fox dpx2 that doesn’t quite have the perfect tune for example.

Exactly. A badly set up standard shock will have the same effect as a non-standard shock that isn’t tuned for the frame. If that’s enough to break the frame, it is severely under-engineered.

Whilst Cotic’s policy seems OTT maybe they have (good engineering) reasons for it?

The reasons have nothing to do with engineering. They’re covering themselves legally against users who do stupid things like fitting the wrong sized shock or massively overforking the bike and jumping off silly stuff. Lawyers’ advice is always to just say that everything is prohibited, then discretely make commonsensical exceptions later.

The reasons have nothing to do with engineering.

We can debate the semantics of that (there’s good engineering reasons to try and stop stupidity!) But I don’t think we are in disagreement.

And everybody knows that Cotic have diabolical customer service/ warranty and weasel out of everything… 🤣😜🤪

Likewise I’d be surprised, if you really wanted to swap the shock and you phoned them up to discuss it, that an amicable solution couldn’t be reached…

Isn’t this a shock manufacturer thing as opposed to a Cotic? I think I read somewhere recently that (maybe) fox wouldn’t warranty their shock if used on certain suspension designs

Just ring Cotic direct and ask them, they don’t bite!

Isn’t this a shock manufacturer thing as opposed to a Cotic? I think I read somewhere recently that (maybe) fox wouldn’t warranty their shock if used on certain suspension designs

That’s nothing to do with Cotic’s warranty on the frame.

If you fit an legitimately purchased aftermarket Fox shock to a frame, the warranty on the shock is between you and Fox. My guess would be that Fox won’t warranty a grey-market shock that has been sold to a frame builder but then sold (without a frame) and fitted to a different frame.

Think they had a few (rocketmax?) frames break, so perhaps they have decided it’s because the owners used certain shocks.

They sold frames without shocks (if requested) for many years prior to that, IIRC.

Which is fair enough but maybe word it differently.

“Fitting an incompatible shock may invalidate your warranty, please contact Cotic to discuss before fitting any shock other than the one that came with your frame”

Which is more “we’ll help you upgrade safely” and less “our frame might not handle it”

thols2
Free Member

Exactly. A badly set up standard shock will have the same effect as a non-standard shock that isn’t tuned for the frame.

Assuming it fits. Bad tune on a correct length shock is one thing, a wrong-sized shock is very different.

The warranty policy is utter rubbish. A ‘not compatible with coils and will void warranty’ would be fair enough assuming the leverage curve is similar to the rocket so you need a big spring rate relative to weight but to set a limit to two brands seems odd and enough to put me off, especially as I don’t like cane creeks climb switch solution at all. Is there a lot of flex in the rear through the swing link or something and Fox won’t honour warranty claims on Cotic frames?

Cotic sell Fox shocks with frames, but only after testing, tuning and riding them. They are an option on other Cotic frames that have been available longer. This is nothing to do with Fox, it’s saying that experimenting with shocks not supplied by Cotic is at the owners risk, not theirs. Drop them an email if you have more questions.

The warranty policy is utter rubbish. A ‘not compatible with coils and will void warranty’ would be fair enough assuming the leverage curve is similar to the rocket so you need a big spring rate relative to weight but to set a limit to two brands seems odd and enough to put me off, especially as I don’t like cane creeks climb switch solution at all. Is there a lot of flex in the rear through the swing link or something and Fox won’t honour warranty claims on Cotic frames?

Don’t buy one then. Which you weren’t going to do anyway.

Assuming it fits. Bad tune on a correct length shock is one thing, a wrong-sized shock is very different.

Exactly what I said in the first place. Fitting the wrong sized shock is bad. Fitting an incorrectly tuned shock won’t do any harm to the frame.

TBF, anyone who’s ever dealt with Cotic knows that their aftersales and warranty is beyond reproach. By far the best I’ve ever dealt with (though, to be fair, only one of my 8 Cotics needed any sort of aftersales at all). So if you’re assuming that it’s some sort of dodge or sneaky tactic, basically, don’t.

(I literally never had a warranty on my Hemlock, I bought it used as an ex-demo. And by the time I first had an issue it would have been out of warranty anyway. And even if it were in warranty, endurance downhill racing would have been outside of the warranty anyway. And yet I got better “warranty” service than you’ll get from almost any brand, despite all that. It got a bit embarassing)

So if you’re assuming that it’s some sort of dodge or sneaky tactic, basically, don’t.

No. The assumption is that it’s standard lawyer stuff to avoid problems if somebody does something silly like fitting the wrong sized shock. Every manufacturer has stuff like that written into their warranties.

The point is that it’s not an engineering issue, as some people have assumed, it’s a lawyer thing. The frames are not going to break if you fit a Fox shock that is the correct size but has an unsuitable damping tune. However, if you do fit a different shock and need to make a warranty claim, you will need to rely on the manufacturer’s goodwill because you have violated the terms of the warranty.

thols, you aimed that at me but I think maybe you just didn’t understand my post, we agree on this.

thols, you aimed that at me but I think maybe you just didn’t understand my post, we agree on this.

@Northwind
Apologies.