Compare cycling to other folks hobbies

The some of the ‘how much booze do you get through’ posts made me wince…

Compare cycling to other folks hobbies

yes, always worth thinking what you (or anyone else) would be doing instead.

I also enjoy cricket. Thats a £145 annual membership, plus £10 a match. So thats about £80 a month through the summer to play one game a week.
Thats not including kit costs (luckily as a bowler, bats last me years). Or propping up the bar afterwards. Or driving to away games.

I’ve always been a tight-arse when it comes to buying bike stuff . I’ll always seek out the discounted stuff and buy a lot of 2nd hand parts (got 4 bikes, 2 built with mostly 2nd hand parts, one road bike that was from C2W about 10 years ago and a 20 YO MTB)

Over the last couple of years you have to get a bit more creative since component prices are high and availability is low. Where you could buy an XT 10 speed cassette for around £40 if you shopped around you’re looking at about £70 now. Tyres are crazy money too, pretty sure they’re equivalent to a half decent 18″ car tyre these days lol.
I’ve hardly travelled to ride but I’m one of the lucky ones that lives within riding distance from the trails although, years ago I did used to drive 15 mins to the car park…which is bloody shameful! The downside to riding to the trails is the local trail center loses out on my parking money and generally I won’t stop at the cafe either unless it’s a longer ride out.

I do think there will be some casualties because of what’s happening in the world but not half as many as other industries.

It’s an expensive hobby

It wasn’t always. When I first started riding MTBs (1988), the most expensive bikes were around £1000-1200. So roughly around £2500-3000 adjusting for inflation. Some companies now sell pedal cycles for £13000. And more, I’m sure. Ok so most bikes aren’t that expensive, but there’s loads of bikes well in excess of £3000, and they’re nowhere near the top end. That seems to be somewhere north of £6000 now. And even road bikes weren’t too bad; a full Ultegra Specialized Allez was around £900 I think around the mid 90s (£1700 now), what’s an equivalent bike selling for now? The 105 equipped Allez Sprint Comp is £2900.

Pedals. What TF happened to pedals? They used to be £15!

I don’t think that’s true. You can get a (new) hardtail that’s suitable for serious mtbing for £1k. I started riding in ’98 and the cost of a half-decent bike then (something with better than rst 281 forks) was around £600. inflation-adjusted, those are the same amount. At the same time, kit lasts a huge amount longer than it used to, particularly in terms of failures

The top-top end has got higher, but the entry-level-serious is pretty much the same.

Fair enough actually. A Specialized Rockhopper Elite is £949 and that has Deore gears, with Rockshox forks, and is pretty good tbh. Full suspension seems to add a disproportionate amount of money to things though, I’m sure you’ll agree. The cheapest Stumpjumper I can find is £2250.

As for kit lasting longer; I’m not so sure. I’ve got some pretty ancient parts on some of my bikes; hubs that are perhaps 25+ years old, mechs and shifters that are around the same age. Cranks that are even older. Stuff that gets regular use, not just now and then. And I know that stuff from about 10 years ago was often rubbish; I’ve seen enough of it thrown away and needing replaced. Will current kit last as long?

Does seem to be an increase in hard tail threads.

Anyone want a who had the most rattley not-supposed-to-be-polished cranks competition😁

Does seem to be an increase in hard tail threads.

Its autumn.

And I’m not sure buying a new hardtail to save the bearings on your nice bike has ever been truly fiscally sensible.

I’ve always biked on a budget, but even more so after children came along. Unless I need to replace a pair of forks or a frame, 10 speed stuff, brake pads and tyres are something I can shop for in sales or buy in bulk.
As an example: I have run down my stash of 28h 30mm rims, and my main worry is replacing the ones on my hardtail or FS if they conk out. I’d bought as and when for the same ERD so I could re-use spokes at least once if needs be. I think I paid a maximum of £30 per rim for E13 TRS-1 and Pacenti TL28, sometimes a lot less. For my riding, they’re fine.

[edit] On other hobbies: we’re happily paying about £400 a year for sailing club membership and berthing for two dinghies, and looking at a coastal club for next year that will double that. The boats are sunk (ha!) cost – I’m racing a Europe (badly) that was built in 1989, a 20 year old mast and a sail that was used at the Worlds in 2014 and cost me £150.The boat’s good enough that someone got into it for the National champs two years ago and got a 5th in a fleet of 50.

yes, always worth thinking what you (or anyone else) would be doing instead

A general point and not ryign to single you out but your comment highlights an idea.

I will say compare with other is bad. You tend to be able to find examples to justify your behaviour to whatever you want it to be. Either your justification falls within your own goal and criteria or it doesn’t. Comparison with other is a get out.

“Company cars”? How on earth do you know they’re “company cars”?

Car stereotypes, driving during the workday, less than 5years old, pointless ‘-e’ in the name to evade the BiK tax, “premium” car with the smallest engine (or no engine badge at all), sign written Transit Custom, the only car doing 80+, etc.

Have you tried getting a train anywhere on a weekend?!
If there are even any trains running in the first place (engineering works, strikes…), they’ll go to somewhere just far enough away to be inconvenient, cost a fortune, only allow 2 pre-booked bikes on and that’s before you even consider return journey logistics (often only to find that there’s one train back and if you miss it, you’ve got to find an overnight stay somewhere).

No need to get quite so defensive. Conversely I’ve used the train a lot recently, including with bikes and found it generally pleasant, convenient and the same cost as driving (and if I get some work done, actually profitable).

Sure getting up the ECML on a Sunday is a pain, with an hours diversion around Darlington, but then so is the M1 if some numpty decides to crash into the barriers whilst on the phone. At least I know in advance the train takes an hour longer than a weekday.

Have you tried getting a train anywhere on a weekend?!

So it’s cheaper and easier to just pile everyone into an estate or van and just drive.

@crazylegs – I hear you. We have this year tried the train a few times for rides, and even to visit our two sons who are both walking distance from either Glasgow Queen Street or Edinburgh Haymarket. We have managed TWO train-powered rides, and NO visits to Scottish capital or largest city in a year. All down to really, really sh*tty trains.

I even have a friend complaining on facebook this morning about this – and her job is to encourage use of public transport!

With mortgages and food prices and car fuel and energy bills being at their current levels and rising I can’t really see how anyone won’t be “trimming their cloth”.

I use trains in central Scotland reasonably frequently and find them cheap quick and convenient.

Must get my pensioner railcard when i get back.

And I’m not sure buying a new hardtail to save the bearings on your nice bike has ever been truly fiscally sensible.

Depends what your main bike is, and how much you ride. For most of my cycling “career”, it made sound financial sense to have a 105/SLX/deore equipped winter bike(s) as wearing out D-A/XTR whilst doing ~2000 km a month (mostly outside) will destroy kit, not to mention stuff like having guard friendly frames and clearances for winter friendly tyres and so on. So, yeah.

These days i’m doing less than a quarter of that so it doesn’t really make sense until it’s actually *really* crap weather and then it’s more about full length guards, studded tyres and not actually freezing to death rather than wearing stuff out.

Depends what your main bike is, and how much you ride. For most of my cycling “career”, it made sound financial sense to have a 105/SLX/deore equipped winter bike(s) as wearing out D-A/XTR whilst doing ~2000 km a month (mostly outside) will destroy kit, not to mention stuff like having guard friendly frames and clearances for winter friendly tyres and so on. So, yeah.

These days i’m doing less than a quarter of that so it doesn’t really make sense until it’s actually *really* crap weather and then it’s more about full length guards, studded tyres and not actually freezing to death rather than wearing stuff out.

How much Dura Ace stuff would you go through if you just rode the nice bike all winter? How many years for enough to fund a 105 winter bike (and then maintain that)?

Of course you make a valid point that the use/purpose is different.
I have a hardtail (at least in part) because winter means a couple of hours round the localish flatish wooded singletrack, at lower speeds; rather than bigger days on more challenging trails/features.
Maybe I’ll do some more distance/xc riding; might even do an XC race or two. The conditions dictate the ride, the ride dictates the ideal bike. Much the same with your winter road bike wanting bigger tyres and mudguards.

The travel thing is really a question of expectations, lifestyle choices and commitments.
If I’m being honest without a family I’d probably have spunked all of my disposable income on a lifestyle bus by now and be spending most weekends in some far flung forest or another.
As it is I have a free Taxi service to run most Saturdays and maybe every other Sunday. All of which means I made the adjustment to just riding from my doorstep some time ago.

Riding locally is really what you make of it IMO, for me being in the “boring, flat SE” I’ve found (Cheap) gravel bikes and rigid 29ers suit the local terrain and my available time (and budget) along with Road riding, I’m sure that makes me the embodiment of several STW Cliches but Whatever. For me it’s trying to apply the of K.I.S.S principle and still keep riding despite having a life outside of bikes.

A couple of hours riding from the door (on whatever flavour of bicycle) will cost zero in fuel/wear and tear on the car and doesn’t need you to sit in a car for twice as long as you were riding.
I don’t believe anyone lives more than a handful of miles from something fun to ride whether it’s a patch of woodland with some cheeky, a pump track or a bloody great mountain, the UK isn’t that big.

Plus when you do actually get to take a trip for riding, it feels like a bit more of a treat rather than just another weekend trundling about…

How much Dura Ace stuff would you go through if you just rode the nice bike all winter? How many years for enough to fund a 105 winter bike (and then maintain that)?

The only year i did it i think i needed a pair of shifters and brake calipers, a front mech, jockey wheels, bottom bracket (i’d probably have needed that anyway) a cassette/chainrings (not cheap!) and a couple of extra chains.
I also mangled a pair of decent rims and think that was what killed the saddle, probably several tyres too. I was also miserable and wet every time it rained, or had rained.

When i last worked it out, i reckoned that given the increased rate of wear and replacement parts over what i normally did (12 months for shifters instead of 3 years and so on) the winter bike would have paid for itself every three years, and in that three years, probably needed about 1/4 of the parts count thanks to having mudguards and cheaper, heavier, kit.
FWIW, the last winter bike i bought (about 15 years old now) only had the last of the original 9 speed 105 groupset taken off it 2 or 3 years ago (front caliper and one of the shifters)

As for kit lasting longer; I’m not so sure. I’ve got some pretty ancient parts on some of my bikes; hubs that are perhaps 25+ years old, mechs and shifters that are around the same age. Cranks that are even older. Stuff that gets regular use, not just now and then. And I know that stuff from about 10 years ago was often rubbish; I’ve seen enough of it thrown away and needing replaced. Will current kit last as long?

I think the bits that are still in use aren’t the best measure – everything that didn’t stand the test of time is long in the bin.

Take for example square-tapered cranks. Anything more than moderate use would just round the spindle off and into the bin they’d go. I’d get through a few pairs a year. Sure, for pootling they were sufficient, but anything more, they were rubbish. Rear mechs (along with hangers) used to be fairly disposable, and rim brakes would wear through wheel rims…

Colin – I’m being much more picky about my traveling to ride too. We might even have to lift-share, eh? 😀

Yip, that will work. Shame I’m a bit further away from Rivi now. But I’m hoping to scout the new local spots soon enough.

You can get a (new) hardtail that’s suitable for serious mtbing for £1k. I started riding in ’98 and the cost of a half-decent bike then (something with better than rst 281 forks) was around £600. inflation-adjusted, those are the same amount. At the same time, kit lasts a huge amount longer than it used to, particularly in terms of failures

The top-top end has got higher, but the entry-level-serious is pretty much the same.

Agree, but the top-end seems waaaaaay bigger now too. When I started club rides in ’94-95, I’d say the (then) £600ish sector (Cinder Cones, Orange Clockworks etc) was most of the market. It wasn’t big among people with jobs and disposable income. Now I feel like a lot of sales (the majority?) are to the older, richer crowd.

(Which, in many cases, are the exact same people. One of my riding buddies from back then recently told me about the new DH bike he’s just bought on C2W…)

Take for example square-tapered cranks. Anything more than moderate use would just round the spindle off and into the bin they’d go.

What’s moderate use to you? 15 foot drops to flat?

Only time i’ve done a square taper is when i left it loose by mistake.
Other than that they’d easily last a season of racing and a good chunk of training before the bearings started to get a bit loose. Then it’s either regrease and adjust (old school) or replace the bearings (cartridge) or just bin the whole thing (thanks shimano).

How much Dura Ace stuff would you go through if you just rode the nice bike all winter?

Not a lot if you run a fully waxed chain….

Several sets of Ti cassettes if you use MucOff lube (the worst performing lubes ever tested by Zero Friction Cycling).

LOL at square taper being an issue. How many RS7’s are still going years later? FSA Powerpro were the exception, not the rule.

I use trains in central Scotland reasonably frequently and find them cheap quick and convenient.

Edinburgh – Milngavie? Either line works fine and doesn’t have booking for bikes, same for me in Ayrshire. Try looking at anywhere beyond Dunblane and you’ll find they’re neither quick nor convenient. 156’s have 2 bike spaces (if you ride a balance bike), Intercity now has 6 and both require booking. More importantly, for this context, none of the central services take you close to anywhere particularly good for mountain biking except maybe Cambusbarron and Dunoon (if you come from the right direction!).

None of them are cheap, even accounting for wear and tear it’s cost neutral for me to drive and with one other occupant I’m quids in. It’s a bloody nonsense.

Agree, but the top-end seems waaaaaay bigger now too. When I started club rides in ’94-95, I’d say the (then) £600ish sector (Cinder Cones, Orange Clockworks etc) was most of the market. It wasn’t big among people with jobs and disposable income. Now I feel like a lot of sales (the majority?) are to the older, richer crowd.

I started riding with a club at the same time, and quickly went from a £400 bike to a £700 bike, and wasn’t alone. But you are right, in sentiment. Not many people had particularly expensive bikes. But, of course, the prices started going up when the bikes were more than just a rigid steel F&F. I’m quite happy to justify a £2k spend on a HT with excellent fork, decent drivetrain, dropper post, brilliantly effective brakes and grippy tyres.

And on that last part – people complain about the cost of tyres, for instance, but the ones we use these days were almost unimaginable in 1994.

Take for example square-tapered cranks. Anything more than moderate use would just round the spindle off and into the bin they’d go

Lol! ‘Moderate use”? WTF are you doing to round off a STEEL axle with an ALUMINIUM crank? I’ve got SqT BBs that have outlasted bike frames. The one in my commuter may well be approaching 30 years old. When did Shimano introduce the cartridge BBs? I’m pretty sure it’s from that era. Got at least another 3 or 4 on bikes that have to be getting on for 15-20 years old. Ridden in all weathers, still spinning smoothly. I’ve serviced even older Cup n Cone BBs that still work fine after 40 years or more.

Rear mechs (along with hangers) used to be fairly disposable, and rim brakes would wear through wheel rims…

Currently running XTR M950 (2003), XT M737 (1996), 2x Deore M510 (2002/3) mechs. Been running a set of Mavic 212 rims with V-brakes on my commuter for at least 8 years now, and they were s/h when I got them. Still fine. Got a set of 717s on my Wife’s bike that must be from mid 2000s. Open Pros on my road bike from about 2003. Admittedly those haven’t had as much use though.

Square taper BB remain the only part of any MTB I’ve routinely destroyed. I could go through 2-3 a year just riding big woody XC singletrack circles in the Chilterns. Outboard BB BB were a God-send.

Reading a couple of comment in the thread. Both my bikes have common drivetrain, and brakes, so parts could be inter-changable if I needed to, but as some-one else suggested, my MTB is pretty much my only spending priority, my winter evening hobby is plastic aircraft kits and all the kit for that is bought and paid for, so really just kits and occasional pot of paint, so for me personally things would have to get pretty bad before I stopped.

I recently did wear out a front wheel rim with canti brakes actually. TBF the rim was nearly 20 years old, but still. It does happen.

But my 1993 LX rear mech will never die. (I have replaced the jockey wheels in it, mind)

I have a “cheap” enduro bike in the form of a Calibre Sentry Pro that has done a ridiculous number of miles in the last year including group trips to Revs, Dyfi and a longer journey to BPW for my 50th. It cost me less than lots of hardtails and has been a superb bike, it will do pretty much anything and hasn’t cost much in comparison to many bikes, especially if I keep it for a while. There are quite a few cheap ish second hand ones knocking about, which as long as you check the mech hanger locator bolt, are a cheap way to get a pretty spectacular enduro bike. It also gets used for family bimbling and popping to the shops, which on todays fuel prices saves a fair amount. Most of my rides are local, which helps keep costs down too… but how much are decent helmets!!!

LOL at square taper being an issue. How many RS7’s are still going years later?

Mine are 18 years old.
TBF they are on their third BB

When I started club rides in ’94-95, I’d say the (then) £600ish sector (Cinder Cones, Orange Clockworks etc) was most of the market. It wasn’t big among people with jobs and disposable income. Now I feel like a lot of sales (the majority?) are to the older, richer crowd.

Also true. When I started racing, back in 1998, up until around ten years ago I guess, anyone who had a car which cost more than their bike, a very small minority, would have the mickey taken. Now the car parks are full of fancy cars (most on finance I suspect)
We all had big money bikes and cheap cars, I had a £1,500 Marin Attack Trail in 1999 and no car, I got my first car in 2005 for £200, I was riding a £2,400 Marin Mt Vision Pro at the time, followed in 2009 by a £5k Yeti when I had a £750 Mondeo, that was normal. Best ratio I ever saw was a £7k Bianchi and an old Saab 99 which was rescued from a scrappy for £50 and somehow coaxed through an MOT.

A mate of mine and my good self did 16k worth of EMTB’s in a £500 Mk1 focus estate last weekend. Not sure what the ratio is there but it’s a good effort none the less.

Also true. When I started racing, back in 1998, up until around ten years ago I guess, anyone who had a car which cost more than their bike, a very small minority, would have the mickey taken. Now the car parks are full of fancy cars (most on finance I suspect)

Isn’t that more of a comment on easy credit, cheaper car insurance once you reach a certain age and general living standards?

In much the same way that when you’re a student, you live in some absolute hovels and buy discount food and goods but then as an adult, you actually have some standards around the house you live in / car you drive etc!

Yes and no.
It was for me and those my age, say early twenties. No responsibilities, no mortgage, no chance of insuring a fast car, we spent everything on bikes and as little as we could on cars.
However, those who were older, say forties like I am now, were similar – cheap car and expensive bikes.
However, now I see in all age groups that they all have much fancier cars (both in absolute terms and relative to their bikes)
My 12:1 bike/car cost was maybe an outlier back in 2005, I would guess 3:1 would have been typical, but now I’m older and a bit wealthier I’m at maybe 1:1 race bike/van but most people appear to have cars which are worth loads more than their bikes, my age group and younger, we almost never saw that back then.
Neil up there^ would have been normal back in the early 2000s but is probably a bit odd nowadays, regardless of how old he is

With mortgages and food prices and car fuel and energy bills being at their current levels and rising I can’t really see how anyone won’t be “trimming their cloth”.

Depends on luck or organisation to some degree though doesn’t it? I’m in fixed mortgage and energy for some while. I’ve got around a year to sort out better insulation and alternative energy heating before I fall off my fixed rate. I’m lucky not smart in that regard, but I suspect a lot of people have at least some of their bills fixed. Don’t get me wrong there will be plenty who don’t and all those other costs will add up too, but that might just be the correction the finance driven market madness of ebikes that regularly top out at over 10k needs.

Maybe going back to simpler more durable equipment

Well ahead of you for last 20 years. Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at. I ride in every part on the New Forest around 4 times a week all year round and my only expenses are a new chain and tyres each year.

Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at.

😆

The thing is we can (and it seems will) see a move back to cheaper parts and technology.

From an LBS and bike industry point of view though, this will have an impact in reducing turnover and profit.

I think it’s going to impact some destinations – we’ve always had an autumnal trip to Laggan as a family. It’s not happening this year – and the cafe and shop surely is marginal there without further afield guests like us.

Well ahead of you for last 20 years. Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at. I ride in every part on the New Forest around 4 times a week all year round and my only expenses are a new chain and tyres each year.

So move to the Fens (or equivalent) is the answer, thanks no thanks.

The thing is we can (and it seems will) see a move back to cheaper parts and technology.

Yep, my hunch is the past two years’ worth of price hikes won’t fully stick.

Of course some of it was driven by material price rises and economic factors, but its obvious that opportunism played a part too.

You know what I’d rather have than a fixie with no brakes? A buss pass. And haemorrhoids.