No whatever works is what makes you put in faster lap times on a race run.

Some people say you should have no weight on the handlebars. I put in much faster runs, with very flat, wide handlebars which cause me to weight up the front of the bike more. When I switched to that style of riding it meant more arm pump but I’ve gotten used to it, it wore off after a while.

Some people, really hate that style of riding and are faster riding the back a bit more. I won’t berate them for it.

However there’s a fine line though between poor riding technique that is just plain wrong and having a different style.

fairhurst – Member
http://www.vimeo.com/41343426

Fairhurst is the most amazing troll ever!!! 😆

BTW: Putting your foot down on the outside stands the bike more upright and is used mostly for fast flat corners or off camber sections. In other places not limited to just berms it can be a hindrance.

Now that’s just rubbish, I taught myself to corner better by taking the BMX out with slick tyres to a grassy field and repeatedly doing laps turning as hard as possible at the bottom, after a few attempts I was leaning the bike over so far the inside pedal dug in, a few more goes after that I was going round the corner with one foot on the outside pedal and the other on the saddle (which at least makes bailing easy!).

Most riders lean the bike over further than they do so that as it slips it stays under them, then as they tyres grip again they don’t get high sided. If you hang off the bike like a (tarmac) motorbike then as it loses grip it tries to get away from you, then when it regains grip it high sides you off into the gravel. So tucking your weight inside the bike works well when there’s masses of predictable grip, not so good when the grip runs out (i.e. 90% of the time off road where one or the other wheel is probably gonna slip a bit on very corner)

when stood further upright

but that is what I am saying, sort of.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/video-how-to-corner-with-bike-riders-united-32490/

on that link peat is showing how to corner with the outside foot down (on a flat corner), which is consistently what nearly every coach or rider says.

The point of the outside foot down is to put more weight on the outside of the leaned bike, to keep the weight above the tyre edge and so biting into the ground.

The more the turn, the more the bike is lean’t the more weight gets put on the outside pedal – – you can see the some riders turn their hips into the corner but seem to slide the hip outward, putting even more weight over the outside edge.

see this page, which has piccies of peat.

Cornering: Why are their butts out?

Now that’s just rubbish, I taught myself to corner better by taking the BMX out with slick tyres to a grassy field and repeatedly doing laps turning as hard as possible at the bottom, after a few attempts I was leaning the bike over so far the inside pedal dug in, a few more goes after that I was going round the corner with one foot on the outside pedal and the other on the saddle (which at least makes bailing easy!).

Throughout this entire descent, where do you see Sam Hill put his outside foot down? Do you put your outside foot down round every corner? That my friend is a mincers mistake.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIygwolIHjg[/video]

Fairhurst is the most amazing troll ever!!!

See, I’m not quite so sure, he’s so far beyond a STW self parody he’s gone full circle and wears a met parachute. I think he should go see Jedi, not because he needs more skilz*, but because the resulting “When fairhurst met Jedi” video would probably cause forum meltdown!

*who was the young scallywag who talked like that on here years ago and everyone assumed was troling?

This is worth a watch.

You want to learn about descending, watch a real pro…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_wEG2RNMJc[/video]

where do you see Sam Hill put his outside foot down

for one thing there are few corners where he needs the extra traction, and the frequency and shortness of the corners don’t give him time, so it would be counterproductive.

However you do see him several times shifting his weight to the outside by turning his hips into the corner and sliding his hips to the outside slightly, as in that 2nd link I posted. 53s and 1.46 are examples.

Do you put your outside foot down round every corner?

no, but then I never said I was a good rider – just after a lesson with Jedi I started looking at how riders manage their bikes more and there is a definite commonality to the good riders technique.

This is worth a watch.

I have that DVD – it is very good. It says exactly what I was saying though.

Precisely Turnerguy. I entirely agree with you, the post was not aimed at you it was aimed at the bloke that suggested the fact that putting your outside foot down can be a hindrance was bollocks.

If you ever wonder over to the Southerndownhill forums most of them will tell you to do it on fast flat turns.

Some of you are missing what I am saying, I don’t advocate leaning more than the bike. I’m saying some racers have a bias towards chucking their weight around more than leaning the bike and that technique can and does work for them.

You can’t pump a bike into the ground if you’re hanging off the inside of it – you need to be on top or the force is going the wrong way! And you can’t corner seriously fast if you aren’t pushing the bike into the ground when you need maximum grip.

A lot depends on tyres too. Some are rounder in profile, others have a more obvious transition from the flat to side knobs ans so need the bike further over to make the knobs bite. Different riders have different styles, hence why the perfect tyre for one rider might be useless for another……

We’re all different.

An interesting thread.. For the most part I agree with Bwaarps first comment – whatever works best for you.
Personally I find the outside foot down works well for most situations, and for flatter corners getting a little more weight over the front of the bike, that’s just me, I’m no Steve Peat.
Braking whilst cornering is a mistake I used to make, once I got out of that habit I definately got faster overall.

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar riding styles 😀 .

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar riding[b] walking[/b] styles

what I think interesting is that move that is being hinted at when people say to turn your hips into the turn, or kick your knee into the turn, which then opens up the axis for you to slid your hips back out over the bike, as shown in the leelikesbikes link.

Pretty much all you need to know

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVEh9Tby54g&feature=related[/video]

allmountainventure – Member
Pretty much all you need to know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVEh9Tby54gThat link should nicely put the bullsh*t to rest. If you argue with what Fabien Barel says then you should all take a look at yourselves and wonder why you’re not world cup level riders. Maybe, just maybe, you might be talking out of your arse. God forbid! 🙄

Northwind – Member
My brain’s totally wired to lean with the bike, right into the corner, after too many years on motorbikes, and though I’m basically sympathetic to “whatever works, as long as you’re having fun”, it’s still a crap way to go round a corner on a mountain bike.

This would explain why you couldn’t get on with Rubber Queens.

take a look at yourselves and wonder why you’re not world cup level riders

technique is one thing, controlling what’s in your head is another…

that video precisely says what I was pointing out – 1. he shows the knee/hips thing and 2. he shows the bit about leaning more than the bike and the tyres breaking away.

that was on a DVD called Skills For Thrills on the July 2011 issue of Mountain Bike UK, ‘cos it is one of the few mtb mags I bought that year.

i only watched the first peaty vid. outside foot down, leaning on inside grip…. all good

rudedog – Member

This would explain why you couldn’t get on with Rubber Queens.

Nah, not really, though I know where you’re coming from- I can do it right when the brain’s working, it’s just that I tend to fall back into the bad habits whenever things aren’t working well or I’m rushing things. But tbh I found the rubber queens very good when cornering badly 🙂 Tons of stood-up grip.

So, in summary, on loose surfaces, for any given corner and speed you need to move the combined centre of gravity inwards to get keep the bike balanced and get round the bend. Whether you do this by leaning the bike or your body will not affect the position of the combined rider and bike CofG so the only thing that really changes is which part of the tyre is in contact with the ground. If your tyres are the type with big lugs at the side then you’ll get better grip by leaning the bike to get onto the edges. If you’re tall this is more important than if you’re small. Either way, your weight is going to be on the outer pedal

In short, it doesn’t matter much.

My experience-

For general riding, keeping things nicely controlled and predictable, the safe option. Leaning bike, dropping outside pedal, keeping body essentially in the same place (upright), weight on top hand (maybe, having trouble picturing it). If i want to pump bike through the turn in this manner, a rotation of the hips, pushing out through my feet.

If i feel like drifting, i initiate the tyres breaking away by leaning body with bike until i can feel the tyres breakaway. To stop the drift, i either pull bike upright or start cranking. If i want to continue and control drift, i revert back to the position outlined in first paragraph.

As for the pros, i have no idea. I’ve attended a load of ghetto dual races with a load of local heroes. They’re very muddy and slidey. People like peaty and bryceland make it look like they’re not even doing anything, or even turning. They make exceptional line choices that make the track look straight. Any turns that look like turns though, they are dropping the crank and leaning the bike. A major difference i’ve noticed in their technique to most mortals is that their weight is very central, not really pushing on the front for grip. It sort of makes sense, maybe, you can generate more pump in that position, generating more force on the tyres and hence grip, maybe 😐

So in short – leaning bike, dropping crank, body upright, it’s the way to do it. Leaning body and bike makes the tyres breakaway, you may or may not want this. If a berm is a good size, lean body with bike.

I’d like to be able to offer some advice, but I ride a 29er and therefore have no experience of cornering on a mountain bike as my wheels don’t allow it.

I’ve got a 29er too, so that’s where I’ve been going wrong.

Close your eyes, while shouting “Look Mum!”

So, in summary, on loose surfaces, for any given corner and speed you need to move the combined centre of gravity inwards to get keep the bike balanced and get round the bend.

You must be summarising a different thread – that’s pretty much the opposite of what is being said here and in the videos, particularly the “All Mountain Basic Biking Skills” one above.

This little section of corners/switchbacks took me 40 minutes of pushing back up and re-trying before I managed it without a dab (or a crash).

Technique is easy to read about or watch but harder to put it to use whilst trying to avoid pointy stuff and trees.

sunnrider – looks fun

You must be summarising a different thread – that’s pretty much the opposite of what is being said here and in the videos, particularly the “All Mountain Basic Biking Skills” one above.

By ‘balanced’ I mean to stop it falling outwards which is what would happen if you turned the bars and didn’t move the CofG inwards.

Most of the WC downhill tracks are so steep the inside foot down technique doesn’t work as it would put the weight distribution all to pot. Like that Sam Hill vid shows a lot use their hips to force weight onto the tires. Another thing I have found after riding with some friends here who are all ex-downhill racers is that they lean their heads way out front over the bars to get extra grip on the front tire.

This little section of corners/switchbacks took me 40 minutes of pushing back up and re-trying before I managed it without a dab (or a crash).

That’s why I don’t think I’ll ever be particularly good at all this “technical” malarkey.
I’d have lost interest long before that.
I’d ride it once, dabbing as often as I needed to, then carry on to the next bit.

you’re doing it wrong

The outside foot down thing is an exaggerated movement to get people weighting the bike properly.

Sam Hill is still transferring his weight to the outside pedal, just not in such an exaggerated way. His outside foot moves lower than the inside. His outside heel drops more. He moves his hips over the saddle to the outside of the corner etc…

Sorry, but that’s now considered technical? wtf?

You really don’t need to be a STW riding god to get down that on two wheels…

Yes, he could have ridden from the start point to the end point in a straight line, but I thought the point was to practice corners.

you’re doing it wrong

I think I´ll have that etched on my tombstone.

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar riding styles

😕