• This topic has 253 replies, 80 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by mt.
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  • Contador suspended 2 years
  • Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Because they did not consider the main evidence about the blood transfusions as contadors lawyers managed to persuade them not to – which almost caused WADA to walk away from the hearing. If you don’t look at the evidence yo cannot rule on it.

    Why do you want to defend this confirmed drug cheat?

    At least they upheld the basic point that its strict liability – drugs in your system means a ban.

    Premier Icon tagger
    Free Member

    I don’t I just read the article and didn’t see any reference to thwe transfusion that you go on about sand thought I would ask the question. 🙄

    Premier Icon MSP
    Full Member

    i genuinely think its just a sport that will and has always had such a problem

    I actually think it one of the few sports that has stood up and done something about drugs, look how football and particularly rugby just buries their heads in the sand and pretends there is no problem, cycling is 10 years ahead of the game by comparison.

    Premier Icon boriselbrus
    Full Member

    Probably the easiest way to level the field is to just simply allow doping.

    Great, so where DO you draw the line? Pro-Tour? Pro-Continental? Domestic Cat 1? Go Race under 12’s?

    Premier Icon Spin
    Free Member

    TJ thank you for posting that Michael Ashenden NY Velo piece. Very interesting reading.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Boris – all racing. At the lower levels the only drugs available are likely to be coke or speed off the street. Could result in some interesting cat 4 races.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Full Member

    Boris – all racing. At the lower levels the only drugs available are likely to be coke or speed off the street. Could result in some interesting cat 4 races.

    I think you underestimate how easy it is to get hold of performance enhancing drugs.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    I’m sure I do, I’ve never tried!

    Premier Icon Topov
    Free Member

    Anybody got any Vera’s?

    Premier Icon TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    fill ’em full of coke in bike races and watch the heart attacks happen

    Premier Icon MSP
    Full Member

    Well no wonder you never made it, if you had got with the program, you could have been a contender!

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    fill ’em full of coke in bike races and watch the heart attacks happen

    There’s that story of riders in the 90’s sleeping with HR monitors on, set up to alarm when their HR dropped below a certain level. Their blood was so thick from EPO they had to get on turbos in the middle of the night to get their hearts pumping again.That was before any sort of EPO testing, Pantani was the worst by all accounts…

    And here’s a ‘clean’ Lance Armstrong toying with the heavily juiced up best climber of his generation on Alpe D’Heuz. It’s embarrassing.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q38Gyjv4EE[/video]

    Premier Icon igm
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    Alpe D’Heuz. It’s embarrassing

    Yes it is – particularly as on my machine it looks rather like Mont Ventoux

    Sorry 😉

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    warton it’s embarrassing you are under the impression that video clip is on Alpe d’Huez.

    Try Mont Ventoux.

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    LOL, so it is. I shall retreat quietly from this thread 😳

    Premier Icon Singlespeed_Shep
    Free Member

    Great, so where DO you draw the line? Pro-Tour? Pro-Continental? Domestic Cat 1? Go Race under 12’s?

    I think the current system is fine, You do drugs you get caught, you win and theres no evidence you end up gathering attention from the conspiracy theorists. I find it sad that someone does well they instantly get hated.

    I know a few people who have been through cancer and have found Lance Armstrong an inspiration. Also his work for charity is impeccable.

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    Also his work for charity is impeccable

    I’m sorry, I should really let this go, but it’s absolutely not. It’s great that your friends got inspiration from him, and that is something he gives to people on a daily basis, but his ‘charity’ work is nothing more than a self promoting exercise. Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it’s not, it’s being spent on HIS libel cases.

    Premier Icon Singlespeed_Shep
    Free Member

    Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it’s not, it’s being spent on HIS libel cases

    Now I’m not going to say its right, BUT if its 55% of it turnover going on Cancer research its 55% of something rather than 55% of nothing. There is plenty of people in this world that could equal that contribution quiet easily but simply don’t.

    Premier Icon Spin
    Free Member

    Now I’m not going to say its right, BUT if its 55% of it turnover going on Cancer research its 55% of something rather than 55% of nothing

    Charity absolutely cannot work like that. Where do you draw the line?

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    Well that’s the argument I suppose, and you’re right, he’s done much, much more than pretty much anyone else. But the public image and the truth are a long way off each other.

    Premier Icon Spin
    Free Member

    Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it’s not, it’s being spent on HIS libel cases.

    Can you quote your sources on that? I’m not questioning you just genuinely interested in those figures.

    Premier Icon Singlespeed_Shep
    Free Member

    Charity absolutely cannot work like that. Where do you draw the line?

    There must be line somewhere in the regulations of being a charity,

    as Tesco would just give 5% of profits to cancer research and declare themselves as a charity and reap the benefits.

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    The turnover / legal fees were in their last set of accounts, sometime in 2011.

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    This was calculated from their 2009 books

    In 2009 Livestrong spent $15,377,233 on legal fees & salaries vs $11,775,916 paid out to grants & programs.

    At the time I did some basic comparisons with oxfam and another charity I forget the name of and I was amazed at the difference.

    Premier Icon Spin
    Free Member

    The turnover / legal fees were in their last set of accounts, sometime in 2011.

    Linky? : )

    Premier Icon atlaz
    Free Member

    Well that’s the argument I suppose, and you’re right, he’s done much, much more than pretty much anyone else. But the public image and the truth are a long way off each other.

    Well lets look at Bill Gates. By all accounts a nice bloke, has engaged in some less than pleasant business practices but because he’s not won any bike races (as an example), he’s ignored. He’s given $28 BILLION to charity. He doesn’t get paid by his foundation and doesn’t chase everyone who has something bad to say about him.

    What Lance has done is given motivation and inspiration which isn’t bad, but lets not pretend he’s a philanthropist. Livestrong is about his brand.

    Anyway, back to Contador, the Spanish blokes in the office here in Luxembourg are quite miffed that Contador got the ban but can’t talk too much about it as the local hero is the main beneficiary 🙂

    Premier Icon mt
    Free Member

    Is the National Lottery a charity?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Free Member

    Is the National Lottery a charity?

    No – yet it still manages to give a larger proportion of profit to good causes than Livestrong (the only reason Livestrong even comes close is because of the proportion the government skims off).

    Premier Icon joao3v16
    Free Member

    Serious question – is Livestrong an official charity, or a fundraising organsation that donates some of it’s money to ‘good causes’ ?

    Looking at http://www.livestrong.org, ‘charity’ is not mentioned anywhere …

    Premier Icon mt
    Free Member

    it’s a Foudation, what exactly does that mean legally (in the US). Does a Foundation have to be charitable? If not could I start my own, perhaps to put a bonus in and say it’s gone to charity. Is this what Fred Goodwin should have done?

    Premier Icon warton
    Free Member

    It isn’t a charity no, It was, under the lance armstrong foundation, but LA and his directors quietly turned it into a for profit organisation. so when people are buying wrist bands and t shirts they are, in fact, giving lots of money to Nike and LA (and a %age to the part of the company that gives money to anti cancer programmes and research)

    Premier Icon theboatman
    Full Member

    All my hopes are on Wiggo for the TDF then, watching Andy Schleck ask Cuddles to chase down Contador on the Alpe d’Heuz last year was just embarassing.

    Premier Icon mt
    Free Member

    Wiggins, no chance. Froome has a better chance than him. Shame though.

    Premier Icon theboatman
    Full Member

    Wiggins, no chance. Froome has a better chance than him. Shame though.

    Maybe, it will be an interesting press conference when Team Sky announce that. 🙂

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    are you mad Froome better than Wiggo nah
    Spain has super steep climbs that Le tour does not have and Wiggo did crack [ish]then but it was also after a slight lay off

    Froome is not in the same class as Wiggo yet [who should podium IMHO] an dhas only riodden the tour once before

    Premier Icon hora
    Free Member

    http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do/Our-Approach/Where-the-Money-Goes

    http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

    Only in the search function does it provide hits on ‘charity’ (links to others)

    Maybe in the US certain org’s want a different definition of what we’d call Charidee?

    Premier Icon gary
    Full Member

    It isn’t a charity no, It was, under the lance armstrong foundation, but LA and his directors quietly turned it into a for profit organisation

    Hmm. Not convinced thats actually the case. It is a fact the Livestrong.com is a commercial entity licensed to an external company as opposed to the foundation website at livestrong.org. Also a bit sceptical of the speculation about legal fees – happy to be proven wrong though.

    This is a very insightful piece on LiveStrong including what they actually fund these days :

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html

    Premier Icon mt
    Free Member

    aracer – Member

    Is the National Lottery a charity?

    No – yet it still manages to give a larger proportion of profit to good causes than Livestrong (the only reason Livestrong even comes close is because of the proportion the government skims off).

    Sorry to be a pedant Smiley face thingy dont work.
    So that’s profit not turnover then. Livestrong gives a % of total income generated as apposed to the National Lottery that gives a % of profit.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Free Member

    So that’s profit not turnover then. Livestrong gives a % of total income generated as apposed to the National Lottery that gives a % of profit.

    Well the turnover of the NL includes prizes – you’d hardly expect 80% of turnover to go to good causes in that case. Apologies for not managing a better term for “income less prizes”.

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