Contador Back Froome as Clean

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  • Contador Back Froome as Clean
  • ormondroyd
    Member

    a doctor not know to have doped at the time

    He was named in Joe Parkin’s book as the doctor who’d doped riders on his team. That was 2008.

    Anyway, it’s smoke, I’m not saying it proves anything, but people were asking for examples of smoke.

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    We need to bring back the witches stool so they can prove their innocence.

    No you don’t. You need a properly funded credible anti doping test regime administered and overseen by an INDEPENDENT and credible anti doping agency (i.e. not the UCI). This will give some confidence at least.

    Have you got heat stroke..what smoke – you mean he rides fast – that is a there is

    Are you deliberately being obtuse? You want me to start from the beginning again? Looks like you got smoke in yer eye mate. Explain for me how someone can peak all season like Froome has, he’s lost, what, one race? Wiggins was pretty much the same last year iirc. How does that work?

    You guys all think I’ve got Froome lined up for the lynching tree, wrong. I’m saying, hold on there tiger, we’ve been here before… What makes you so sure that this time is so so different?

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Explain for me how someone can peak all season like Froome has, he’s lost, what, one race? Wiggins was pretty much the same last year iirc. How does that work?

    Well it might be down to new ideas in training, recovery and nutrition. Suspending cycnisism for a minute, what real reason could eliminate this possibility?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Explain for me how someone can peak all season like Froome has, he’s lost, what, one race? Wiggins was pretty much the same last year iirc. How does that work?

    IIRC what happens is you are just faster than them and they cannot beat you. You peak, just like they peak, at the TdF it is just that you are always faster.
    Bit like Bolt or Mo Farah wins everything and then still does it at the olympics – its because they are the fastest and everyone is trying to “peak” for the same race
    Even you note he has lost one race but still he peaked all season :?except the one he lost.

    I’m saying, hold on there tiger, we’ve been here before… What makes you so sure that this time is so so different?

    Last time it was endemic in the pelton- everyone knew this
    Last time the recovery was immense – ever see LA bonk like today – though I assume that will be part of the plan to not look awesome all the time
    Last time there was actual reports from folk claiming it rather than this.
    It was different basically except that one team “dominated” though we have seen Sky crack numerous times this tour and [ nearly] Froome

    Basically there was evidence where as this time there is only innuendo

    aP
    Member

    There’s a big difference from Bradley/ Chris to lala – he really only rode the TdF, whereas Froome has ridden a lot this year. Even though I’m not a sky fan – the things they’re doing particularly with training based on swimmers ie remaining at a very high level for a large part of the year rather than doing what has been seen as lore up till now of peaking for specific points in the year helps to explain their performances.
    Today Froome looked quite vulnerable, lala never looked vulnerable, particularly when he was deliberately driving clean riders out of the sport.

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    ever see LA bonk like today

    Yup, on the Joux Plane. 2000

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfLQVNavI8Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    Even you note he has lost one race but still he peaked all season :?except the one he lost.

    And your point is what exactly, only 100% domination in every race is what you need before you’ll consider he might be taking more than horlicks at bedtime? You do know that it takes more than just brute force to win, sometimes the stronger rider is beaten by tactics, right? And he came 2nd. And even managed to win a stage… So not exactly an unmitigated disasterous loss of form there then. πŸ™„

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    @aP: of course there is a huge difference between Lance and Sky. It’s a different era, even lance had to tone it down for his ‘comeback’. Doping has had to move on. It was EPO, then blood boosting/EPO then micro dosing/boosting and now, whatever? The guy (la) is a sociopath!

    Some of the drugs haven’t even been banned yet (not that I’m making a specific reference towards your man chris you understand).

    Junkyard
    Member

    your point is what exactly,

    It is not surprising that the strongest and best athlete win the races whatever the sport as they are the best atheltes.

    only 100% domination in every race is what you need before you’ll consider he might be taking more than horlicks at bedtime?

    I would require some evidence of doping, have you got any ?

    sometimes the stronger rider is beaten by tactics, right?

    And this has happened so what exactly is your point?

    So not exactly an unmitigated disasterous loss of form there then.

    Only a moron would claim it was a disastrous loss of from and i did not [ nice straw man BTW]I said he won because he is the best rider and they were all aiming to peak at the same time

    Any chance you could explain why you are surprised that the best rider keeps winning ?

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    Any chance you could explain why you are surprised that the best rider keeps winning ?

    Here’s a clue: ‘peak’ go look it up in the dictionary. It’s just not usual you know…

    Regards evidence; you know I don’t have any because if I did he would have been popped. However if things look suspicious, then that’s different. These suspicions have been detailed previously in this thread: weird blood disease (which munches red blood cells!), hero to zero when a contract renewal is imminent, climbing mountains in times approaching past dopers records, training camps in secluded far off places and last but not least, w/kg suspiciously at the human undoped peak (i.e. just <6).

    Does the above MAKE him a doper? No.

    However, if you see nothing whatsoever untoward in any of the above mentioned then, well, good luck, I hope you are right and that I’m just being an old curmudgeon who has been through the cycle too many times in the past.

    And you highlighted the TA ‘loss’ which I assumed was to counter my peak comments in the first place. I wasn’t mounting a straw man, I was taking the piss. HTH. πŸ˜‰

    Junkyard
    Member

    Here’s a clue: ‘peak’ go look it up in the dictionary. It’s just not usual you know

    Ok so it is not usual for the fastest athletes to win the races πŸ˜• and if they do its doping -I gave other examples of Mo Farah, Bolt- Wiggo did the same tours last year and won as well..indeed it does seem unusual that the best tend to win.

    You keep saying peak when it is clear he has peaked in the TdF and was just faster on the other stuff as “training” rides as part of his calendar

    weird blood disease (which munches red blood cells!),

    What is suspicious about this exactly – was it that LA was ill?

    hero to zero when a contract renewal is imminent,

    He has been a GC contender for a few years acting as super domestique do just not true

    climbing mountains in times approaching past dopers records

    so being slower than dopers is evidence you dope πŸ˜•

    , training camps in secluded far off places

    are you imagining a bond villain in a volcano ?

    and last but not least, w/kg suspiciously at the human undoped peak

    OH FFS the evidence he dopes is that he is a superb athlete who trains hard to the point his W/KG is not suspiciously high and climbs mountains slower than dopers in his hideaway secret lair that drug testers just cannot reach

    I really do wonder why I bother to debate when the evidence is look his results show he does not dope and you conclude this is evidence of doping

    Nice use of the Edinburgh as well

    Premier Icon aracer
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    and last but not least, w/kg suspiciously at the human undoped peak (i.e. just <6).

    …and right there the man dashes any credibility he might have had by indulging in a conspiracy theory.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    anything new yet?

    photo’s, confessions, physical evidence? Has Chris popped in to set the record straight?

    I assume we factored in the “fake” bonk today as evidence of him pretending not to be superhuman.

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    anything new yet?

    Nope, nothing to see here. Please move along now… or Hein will nip out soon and show you the email

    photo’s, confessions, physical evidence? Has Chris popped in to set the record straight?

    Well Walsh has stacks of videos and photos of the sky boys re-up in the hotel and the bus but Rupert just won’t let him go to print… It’s that damned evil conspiracy in action you see.

    I assume we factored in the “fake” bonk today as evidence of him pretending not to be superhuman.

    Wha…? He’s just following the Lance doping handbook to the letter (well apart from the bonk is supposed to be on his 2nd tour win, maybe he’s mixing things up to throw us off the scent…)

    Oh and just for Junkyard πŸ˜‰ I know you’re not that hot on reading nuance…

    aracer: so I had you convinced up until that point had I?

    So guys, seriously, you are 100% convinced that this really a new era of clean riding and you have no doubts whatsoever?

    So Metalheart, tell us then – what exactly will it take to convince you that he’s clean? What evidence to the negative would satisfy your expert opinion? Please tell us and maybe we can solve doping in cycling here and now πŸ™„

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    See bullandbladder, I’m not actually convinced he is doping, I’m just suspicious. Well actually highly suspicious, you know it being professional cycling and all.

    I’m not sure after the reasoned decision and Tyler & Landis’ revelations that you could convince me it was clean.

    But as I said before, a properly funded, independent, credible anti-doping body would be the place to start.

    And not allowing the whole doping debacle to be swept under the carpet.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Oh and just for Junkyard I know you’re not that hot on reading nuance…

    Sarcasm is such a powerful debating tool when you argument is ripped asunder and shown to be weak to the point of hilarity πŸ˜•
    Part of your evidence is he is slower than dopers and his W/KG is normal- I am sure your sarcasm helps you get out of the hole you have dug and leapt in to but it does not cover the fact you have no senisble argument. FWIW you are funnier when you try a cogent argument than when you try a joke

    I’m not sure after the reasoned decision and Tyler & Landis’ revelations that you could convince me it was clean.

    Then why are you debating?
    Just say i think they cheat and nothing will persuade me otherwise?
    FWIW you could convince me Froome AN Other cheats if you had some evidence

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    Let me get this right, your counter debate to my Froome is just under the theoretical maximum w/kg and is just short of the super doped up climbing times and looooooong peaks is: the fastest guy always wins? And I’m being hilarious. Go Junkyard!

    Why am I here, well one, I love cycling. Ive followed it from the days of (Robert) Millar, Lemond and Fignon. And two, I’m genuinely curious as to why you guys apparently have absolutely no doubts (whatsoever?) and just what would constitute a ‘red flag’ for you.

    I could go drag up some articles from people with a lot more credibility than me and dissect your posts and counter each point but a) I don’t have the energy, the weather is too nice and I’m not that fussed that you actually hold a different opinion from me and b) as above that’s not really what I’m interested in.

    So if you don’t want to answer these questions re. doubts and flags, fair enough.

    The sun is shining and my bike needs picking up from the shop so I will now leave you all in peace.

    Premier Icon aracer
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    aracer: so I had you convinced up until that point had I?

    I think I covered myself there:

    any credibility he might have had

    Let me get this right, your counter debate to my Froome is just under the theoretical maximum w/kg and is just short of the super doped up climbing times and looooooong peaks is: the fastest guy always wins?

    I think the counter to “Froome is just under the theoretical maximum w/kg” as evidence that he’s doping is a lot simpler than that: no it isn’t.

    I could go drag up some articles from people with a lot more credibility than me

    Like David Walsh? Now there’s a man I’d trust to find out the truth behind the cover ups – a man who’s done a lot more to expose doping than you have. Remind me what he’s saying?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Let me get this right, your counter debate to my Froome is just under the theoretical maximum w/kg and is just short of the super doped up climbing times and looooooong peaks is: the fastest guy always wins? And I’m being hilarious. Go Junkyard!

    It seems slightly[ well light years actually] more credible than the alternative which is dopers have natural w/kg, are slower than other known dopers and the fastest guy does not always win a race based on time.
    Again I say he peaked for the TdF he was just always faster than al the other guys who were also trying to peak for the TdF. It is really not uncommon for the fastest person to to be the fastest person*

    I’m genuinely curious as to why you guys apparently have absolutely no doubts (whatsoever?) and just what would constitute a ‘red flag’ for you.

    How about times faster than dopers and w/kg above the natural

    TBH I would be pretty unimpressed by the PEDS i was taking if they did not take me above the natural limit and left me slower than previous dopers

    So if you don’t want to answer these questions re. doubts and flags, fair enough.

    LOL you cannot be bothered answering our questions though you could rip them apart if you were so inclined and then you ask us questions we have already answered

    I am loving your work.
    I think I have said what would convince me [evidence] and you could prove it if you could be bothered obviously πŸ™„

    * edwin moses for example

    Between 1977 and 1987, Moses won 107 consecutive finals (122 consecutive races) and set the world record in his event four times. In addition to his running, Moses was also an innovative reformer in the areas of Olympic eligibility and drug testing. In 2000, he was elected the first Chairman of the Laureus World Sports Academy, an international service organization of world-class athletes.

    even more remarkable he came from nowhere to win gold an break the World record

    Moses competed mostly in the 120-yard hurdles and 440-yard dash. Before March 1976, he ran only one 400 m hurdles race, but once he began focusing on the event he made remarkable progress. His trademark technique was to take a consistent 13 steps between each of the hurdles, pulling away in the second half of the race as his rivals changed their stride pattern. That summer, he qualified for the US team for the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal. In his first international meet, Moses won the gold medal and set a world record of 47.63 seconds.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Why won’t this thread die?

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