The UK relationship with Israel is long-standing and transcends both.

In what way?

You were complaining about the headline referring to “Tories”.

Presumably you would have preferred if they had referred to “her former colleagues”, just to keep politics out of it !

😆

Actually most of it….

If she wants to resign over a point of principle then good for her. But wrapping her other issues into the process weaknesses the case and distracts from the valid points.

We now have Israeli ministers calling for a Holocaust against the people of Gaza

Funny roughly 70 years ago there was a group of folks complaining like billy when this happened to them do the Isrealis play the persecution trump card at every opportunity?

THM – there are clear differences this time, between the Tories, and the lib dems and labour regarding Israel. Admittedly this is the first time this has happened. But then Israel has surpassed itself in it’s inhuman brutality this time. And a lot of people (myself included) are now so completely disgusted by our governments continued support, that this could well lose some Tory MP’s their seats in marginal constituencies with large ethnic populations. This will certainly be a big issue in a lot of northern constituencies near us, hence labours condemnation.

With regard to Warsi – I think the personal assaults on her by Dave and chums will backfire, and cause further damage to the Tories, by entrenching not only the view that the they really are just a posh boys club (which is patently true, despite the addition of the obnoxious Esther McVey!), but that they’re as nasty and vindictive as ever!

Andrew Rawnsley made an interesting observation last week. Dave didn’t dislike Warsi because she was a woman, or a Muslim (though these both make him uncomfortable) but mainly because she was northern, with charecteristic bluntness, and was prepared to tell things as they were. And this Cameron cannot stand!!!

@gonzy I think if you are an Israeli who has had 1000’s of missiles fired at you including 100’s before the conflict flared up in July you are going to be pretty anti Hamas without any other coercion.

utter rubbish…its taken 60+ years of propagandist brainwashing by the Israeli government into making the Israeli people think that the entire Palestinian population are evil monsters…and that Hamas is the spawn of the devil.
the bit about Hamas may in some respects be true…and then if you look into it a little deeper you will find that it was created with the aid of the Israel government.
as for having 1000’s of rockets fired on Israelis before the conflict started…(forgive the sarcasm) but oh how inconvenient it must be to have to scurry off to an air raid shelter because some ineffective home made rockets are fired on you?!
how many have actually caused any Israeli casualties?
how many have killed and Israeli women and children?
how many Israeli hospitals and schools have been destroyed?

ask any Palestinian and they will gladly be willing to run to a shelter every 5 minutes so long as they can come back out alive and return to their undamaged homes.

but when a population have over the space of 60+ years have been subjected to land theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, imprisonment and apartheid rule…the same can be said that they do not need any coercion to have a strong hatred towards their oppressors. Israel has done this with impunity and has got away with it.
the Palestinians will align themselves with the only group willing to stand up for them and make their case be known.
Israel created Hamas….then with its treatment of the Palestinians made Hamas their only hope….yet you still claim Israel is the victim??

whatever it is you’re smoking….can i have some?!

how inconvenient it must be to have to scurry off to an air raid shelter because some ineffective home made rockets are fired on you?!
how many have actually caused any Israeli casualties?
how many have killed and Israeli women and children?
how many Israeli hospitals and schools have been destroyed?

@gonzy when you have had to suffer the “inconvenience” of having to run to a shelter perhaps you will be able assure us personally that it wouldn’t bother you. Hamas has done it’s up most to try and kill Israeli citizens. It is naive to believe that just because they have been unsuccessful that it doesn’t mater and should be ignored. Hamas has spent years accumulating weapons and building attack tunnels to murder and attempt to kidnap Israeli’s. Hamas well knew that they cannot inflict damage on Israel but they persist with their attacks as they want to use the death of their citizens as a propaganda tool to Western audiences. It is not working in the region however, Jordan has refused entry to Palestinians trying to flee there from Syria.

Did you read Hilary Clinton’s interview ? Remember she is one of the more moderate US politicians. A Republican administration is likely to be even more strongly pro-Israeli.

Clinton Interview

A made up quote by a made up individual gonzy ?

Either way it’s bollocks.

On Warsi she has lost what little credibility she might have had on her resignation, as I said in my mind it was never a Robin Cook moment just a cynical use of a conflict to attempt to make a splash. She is now getting a panning from both the Conservatives and more left leaning politicians who see her as a shallow opportunist.

A made up quote by a made up individual gonzy ?

Either way it’s bollocks.

yes its fake…but the words express the general consensus of how Israel is viewed by the rest of society with regards to its relationship with the USA.
Israel does nothing to change this fact with its actions and policies

On Warsi she has lost what little credibility she might have had on her resignation

She might have lost credibility with a pro-Zionist Tory like you, but I doubt very much that she’s lost any credibility with the wider public.

I’ve never liked her and still don’t, with her background she should have known better – there are other Tories which I have a little more respect for. But I grudgingly accept that she has taken a principle stand over Gaza. Even though she’s appear to have discovered rather late that posh Eton educated Tories don’t have much respect for dark skinned muslim women with northern working-class backgrounds. Who would have thought it ?

but the words express the general consensus of how Israel is viewed by the rest of society with regards to its relationship with the USA.

Yes but it’s still bollocks, even if some people believe it.

Israel does not control the US president, media, and “everything” in the US.

The US’s existing foreign policy towards Israel is purely voluntary, they pursue that policy because they want to.

The Middle East has high value for the US, no one dictates to the US government US policy with regards to the Middle East. Not even the “Jewish lobby”.

@gonzy when you have had to suffer the “inconvenience” of having to run to a shelter perhaps you will be able assure us personally that it wouldn’t bother you.

I would wonder what drove people to do this and look for methods to find peace. i would nto think treating them like shit and killing their children would help me or my children avoid this in the future.

Hamas has spent years accumulating weapons and building attack tunnels to murder and attempt to kidnap Israeli’s.

And all the while Israel has been showering them with gifts and kindness like illegal land grabs, illegal embargo’s and of course it never breaches their border [ or frankly anyones else eh ] to kill or maim its folk either.
You are a hypocrite who only considers one sides actions, ignores the context and can justify anything israel does and nothing Hamas does
Its a disgrace but popular amongst western leaders if not their people.

yes its fake…but the words express the general consensus of how Israel is viewed by the rest of society with regards to its relationship with the USA.

@gonzy this is clearly not true. If you had a poll of people in the US asking where they stood on Israel vs Palastine you would find their governments are following what people wanted. If more people in the UK followed your viewpoint our Government wouldn’t take the stance it has. No one really believes Israel or the Jewish community controls any Western government.

This is not about being pro-Israel or pro-Zionist it’s about being anti-terrorist.

The Palestinian refugees from Syria are not welcome in Jordan, why welcome in people who have been fighting a war against their host government. Their border from Egypt is shut as Egyptians don’t wish to become embroiled in accusations of facilitating the arming of Hamas.

We should all be glad we live in a democracy like the UK where 25,000 can demonstrate against government policy in Gaza. If you where in Gaza and you voiced opposition to Hamas you’d be dead in a second.

The Palestinian refugees from Syria are not welcome in Jordan, why welcome in people who have been fighting a war against their host government.

Worth looking at the longer history there too – for example the seven point agreement and ten point edict followed by Black September!

If more people in the UK followed your viewpoint our Government wouldn’t take the stance it has.

and what stance is that exactly?

No one really believes Israel or the Jewish community controls any Western government.

That’s not true.

According to a public opinion poll by Zogby International of 1,036 likely voters from October 10–12, 2006, 40% of American voters at least somewhat believe the Israel lobby has been a key factor in going to war in Iraq. The following poll question was used: “Question: Do you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree that the work of the Israel lobby on Congress and the Bush administration has been a key factor for going to war in Iraq and now confronting Iran?”

There is widespread belief here, in the US, and throughout the world, that the “Jewish lobby” controls US policy towards Israel. This imo is a gross exaggeration of the power of the Jewish lobby. The Jewish lobby obviously has some influence on how some politicians vote, but that’s about as far as it goes and plenty of other lobbying groups have simular influence. And Muslims also have some leverage on US government policies.

US Middle East foreign policy is primarily influenced by self-interest and nothing else.

That it supports Israel in it’s right to defend itself against persistent rocket attacks from a terrorist controlled Gaza.

Some on here don’t wish to accept the fact that Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel all year but I guaranty the UK intelligence services have been briefing the Government.

Israel signed lasting peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan (who claimed the West Bank by the way, not for Palestinians but for themselves). The PLO signed a peace agreement it is just that Hamas don’t accept it’s terms and prefer conflict.

No one really believes Israel or the Jewish community controls any Western government.

many believe they exert greater influence than they should but no one thinks even the PM controls the givt

This is not about being pro-Israel or pro-Zionist it’s about being anti-terrorist.

No it is not it is about thinking Israel can “defend” itself but Hamas can not. It is not a credible position morally at all and is pro zionist argument – look who argues only this – people like you basically.
What about bombing UN sites multiple times and killing children imagine if Hama did this or Iran – what would the non zionist influenced western govts do then? the same talk of their right to defend themselves

Hamas won an election
here some facts

Hamas won a plurality of 42.9% of the total vote and 74 out of 132 total seats (56%).[29][30] When Hamas assumed power the next month, the Israeli government and the key players of the international community, the United States and the EU, refused to recognize its right to govern the Palestinian Authority. Direct aid to the Palestinian government there was cut off, although some of that money was redirected to humanitarian organizations not affiliated with the government.[31

it requires massive blinkers of distortion to think israel has done nothing here , are innocent victims and are nto waging a war of terror themselves and hamas just started firing rockets and it for no reason.

its not a good thing to do but it does not justify [ nor come even close] to what israel has done.

yes its fake…but the words express the general consensus of how Israel is viewed by the rest of society with regards to its relationship with the USA.

That’s a bit like when earlier on you said

gonzy – Member
I’m a credulous pillock who talks a lot of pig ignorant bollocks and can safely be ignored

Well, you didn’t actually say that, but those words express the general consensus of how you are viewed by the rest of society in regard to your relationship with the truth.

persistent rocket attacks from a terrorist controlled Gaza.

The Palestinian resistance has the right to defend themselves from IDF terrorists and drive them out from occupied Palestine.

The Palestinian resistance has the right to defend themselves from IDF terrorists

We’ve done this before repeatedly, but not by deliberately or indiscriminately targeting israeli civilians it doesn’t!

Edit – You might also recall that the dominance of rocket attacks only began after the walls/closed borders were put in place to stop suicide attacks, bus bombings, shootings etc, which were also predominantly targeted at civilians, so its no good blaming the inadequacy of the rockets.

For a pro-zionist you’ve got a bit of a cheek to talk about not targeting civilians.

gonzy – Member
I’m[i]Konabunny is also[/i] a credulous pillock who talks a lot of pig ignorant bollocks and can safely [b]should[/b] be ignored

FTFY

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k9IlR3-_-A[/video]

but not by deliberately or indiscriminately targeting israeli civilians it doesn’t!

I am sure they would be delighted to have the same sort of weapons as there foes.

#scribblefest

FTFY

Ooh, what a sting. But I won’t believe it’s true until I see some fake Iranian twitter bollocks to prove it.

But I won’t believe it’s true until I see some fake Iranian twitter bollocks to prove it.

so basically everything i have posted on here is complete bollocks on the account of one image i posted which i even said was fake but i felt represented the general consensus of Israel’s influence over the american government?
but instead of debating this you decide to get a little personal with the name calling?
you’re a bell-end and i claim my fiver

I am sure they would be delighted to have the same sort of weapons as there foes.

The Israelis have crap weapons. Apparently they keep killing civilians even though they are really trying not to. For example they keep hitting UN schools full of sheltering civilians, even though they are obviously not targeting them, they even have the coordinates for the schools.

gonzy – member
basically everything i have posted on here is complete bollocks

100% genuine quote.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLmxLhp0PtU[/video]

konabunny – 100% genuine knob

I know that Palestine is an emotive subject for you gonzy, it is for a lot of people, but try to be a bit more relaxed about konabunny’s abrasive style.

Careful or you two will be firing rockets at each other.

utter rubbish…its taken 60+ years of propagandist brainwashing by the Israeli government into making the Israeli people think that the entire Palestinian population are evil monsters

I think you will find it was the suicide bombings in Tel Aviv disco that really turned the Israeli people into thinking the Palestinians were monsters.

I was in Israel before and after these blasts and the change in attitude was frightening.

@ernie – as time passes we will learn more of the truth. I think there is a very good chance the school was indeed hit by an errant Hamas missile. The IDF and Iron Dome tracks the missiles fro launch, I read somewhere the IDF estimates 20% of the Hamas rockets crash soon after take off.

@gonzy Hamas could stop the death toll immediately by agreeing to a ceasefire. The current ceasefire is under exactly the same terms as the one on July 8, at that time the death toll was around 300. Since then 1700 more lives have been lost.

You are right to post that Obhama quote. The US do not see the Gaza situation is any way shape or form as similar to ISIS in Syria and Iraq and they are correct in doing that. I know you keep describing the Gaza situation as a genocide but those in a position of influence like in the US, UK and other EU governments do not do so.

As soon as Hamas ceased power (and ceased is the world used by BBC and others) Egypt and Israel closed the borders. Obviously this is a political slap in the face of Hamas as far from improving people’s lives their election has made things much worse. Hamas have said their negotiating stance is that they want a better situation (eg open borders) than they had when they started firing rockets in large numbers from the start of 2014. No one is going to agree to that, Hamas offers nothing except violence and gains significant concessions – it’s not going to happen. Hamas’s rocket supply is diminished, its attack tunnel network diminished. Yes they have won some propoganda victories but as time passes they will see they have suffered a material defeat.

I know that Palestine is an emotive subject for you gonzy, it is for a lot of people, but try to be a bit more relaxed about konabunny’s abrasive style.

TBH Ernie, i couldn’t care less for konybunny. he can say what he likes. he’s entitled to his opinions and is more than welcome to challenge the opinions of others. but when he cant do this without resorting to name calling….to me he’s crossed the line and got a bit too personal for my liking.