It makes complete sense.

Some people are saying ‘they should just follow orders’

Others point out how ridiculous that it.

But wrecker said on the last page that individual thought is encouraged within the army so it would seem the army themselves realise how bad it would be to have armed forces made out of unthinking robots.

grum – Member

When in the recent history did that happened where the British force deliberately go out to exterminate a race?

Unless you’re really thick – you know full well that’s a total straw man.

Give me an example.

When is that an order given to exterminate a race? Like I said before perhaps a group (shooting protestors yes … ya shoot more) or a “village” (more like jailing) – then yes.

If you have signed up to join then you take the orders. You can argue/discuss about the orders until your face turn blue only after you are discharged from the forces.

In this day and age to simply assume not knowing the duty of being an army before joining is simply nonsense.

BigButSlimmerBloke – Member

Running away THEN claiming conscientious objection probably doesn’t

Didn’t he go AWOL because his application for CO was refused?

Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.
You can’t argue with an idiot so I won’t.

mattsccm – Member
Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.
You can’t argue with an idiot so I won’t.

Who are you referring to?

Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.

I agree that chewkw doesn’t make a lot of sense. At least he hasn’t talked about maggots or ‘dear leader’ yet.

grum – Member

Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.

I agree that chewkw doesn’t make a lot of sense. At least he hasn’t talked about maggots or ‘dear leader’ yet.

Only for you … Only for you … (the calm voice of Peter Griffin)

Only for that joining army is equate with outdoor adventure .. 🙄 Bloody recruiting advertisement.

Get this … (I like this phrase I just made up) … “You only see sense when you want to, otherwise nothing make sense to you in your senseless world”. Get it? Get it? (slightly enthusiastic Peter Griffin)

Anyway, yes, Dear Leader usually steps on maggot kinds! 😆

Have you ever thought about seeking treatment for your mental health issues? 😐

grum – Member

Have you ever thought about seeking treatment for your mental health issues?

Are you being politically correct?

OK sorry, I meant ‘being totally batshit mental’.

Don’t bother Grum.

She (and she is waaaay better at leftism than me!) works on/in TFL, and was most impressed to see commuters frowning over her man the Metro yesterday.

She doesn’t sound very good at being a lefty to me.

The traditional lefty solution to cowards, deserters and anyone not wanting to clear a minefield by walking through it was to line up machineguns behind them.

Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.
You can’t argue with an idiot so I won’t.

are you ex or current forces?

hey atleast we don’t (generally) shoot COs anymore, progress! 🙄

Was reading a (american) WW2 book the other day, there was an interesting little bit about soldiers occasionally ignoring stupid/dangerous orders, your superiors aren’t looking over your shoulder on the front line so there is some selection goes on.

yossarian – Member

“Usual load of old cobblers churned out by those who have no valid argument.
You can’t argue with an idiot so I won’t.”

are you ex or current forces?

Either way it’s pretty gutless to insult someone and not even have the balls to say who you’re insulting. But I’m sure it made him feel like John Wayne for a second.

this is nearly like the good old days. Of course tj would have got a few more long words but never mind. Keep it up.

She doesn’t sound very good at being a lefty to me.

The traditional lefty solution to cowards, deserters and anyone not wanting to clear a minefield by walking through it was to line up machineguns behind them.

(assuming you aren’t just being all bitter and trolly) -Two axis political spectrum/compass innit.

You can be libertarian as well as left wing. These days all the ‘best’ lefties are to be found at stop the war coalition/counterfire etc. Me, I am too far over the top of the horizontal axis to fit in properly there.

Either way it’s pretty gutless to insult someone and not even have the balls to say who you’re insulting. But I’m sure it made him feel like John Wayne for a second.

I’m not overly concerned with the petty bollocks (for now). I’m trying to work out whether the CO are thinking more deeply about issues than their colleagues or whether there is a divergence of opinion. I suspect the former but having never been in the forces I have no first hand experience.

My question to mattsccm about whether he’s ex or serving stems from a conversation I had with someone yesterday. He spent 32 years in one particular branch and did rather a lot of stuff at the sharp end. His attitude was fair enough, thanks and goodbye, would rather find out now than out in the field. This seems at odds with mattsccm, hence my question.

yossarian – Member
I’m not overly concerned with the petty bollocks (for now)

😆

He spent 32 years in one particular branch and did rather a lot of stuff at the sharp end. His attitude was fair enough, thanks and goodbye, would rather find out now than out in the field.

Makes sense.

32 years???
Bloody hell, I’ve never heard of anyone serving that long. Particularly anywhere near the sharp end. Mind you his attitude is spot on which may be why they kept him for so long!

Not sure if this is relevent to all the asertions that soldier boys have to do what they are told but:-

Manual of Military Law, Pt I, Chapter VI, Article 24
Article 24 of the Manual of Military Law makes it quite clear that members of the armed forces have a lawful duty to disobey orders from their superior officers if they believe that those orders are unlawful. It also makes it quite clear that if they do carry out an unlawful order they will be held criminally responsible for the consequences of the order.

The publication of the Manual of the Law of Armed Conflict by the Ministry of Defence in 2004 reconfirmed the principle and made it quite clear that the duty to disobey a manifestly unlawful order applies to all superior orders from wherever they originate.

16.47.3 Orders from a superior in this context include those of a government, a superior – military or civilian – or a national law or regulation. A serviceman is under a duty not to obey a manifestly unlawful order.

Different circumstances but the objectors in WWI were brave. They risked social exclusion, loss of civvy work and jail. The case of 3 of the Manchester Regiment shot is very very sad.

Not sure if this is relevent to all the asertions that soldier boys have to do what they are told but:-

Manual of Military Law, Pt I, Chapter VI, Article 24
Article 24 of the Manual of Military Law makes it quite clear that members of the armed forces have a lawful duty to disobey orders from their superior officers if they believe that those orders are unlawful. It also makes it quite clear that if they do carry out an unlawful order they will be held criminally responsible for the consequences of the order.

The publication of the Manual of the Law of Armed Conflict by the Ministry of Defence in 2004 reconfirmed the principle and made it quite clear that the duty to disobey a manifestly unlawful order applies to all superior orders from wherever they originate.

16.47.3 Orders from a superior in this context include those of a government, a superior – military or civilian – or a national law or regulation. A serviceman is under a duty not to obey a manifestly unlawful order.

there you go..

it’s all gone quiet at the back