Depression is essentially self destruction – you have to learn to stop doing it.

I don’t disagree, but I dont think the “fix it yourself, dont rely on others” attitude is helpful, certainly not in my case – without others to help spot you just lapse back easily. Its not a matter of waiting to be fixed, it’s a matter of havng a support network when you are trying to fix yourself. Otherwise all the therapists in the world would become redundant and we’d just post a book to each household and tell people to fix themselves. Cheaper for the NHS I’m sure 😀

agreed CK

fix it yourself, dont rely on others

i go back to my ‘car’ analogy above

do ‘we’ (collectively that is) do everything ourselves, or do ‘we’, on occasion rely on the services of those better equipped to do the job at hand…… today for example, I have mostly employed the services of a roofer, window fitter, electrician and plumber to attend various issues at home 😕 ……

Employing a counsellors, to me, the same thing – if they do the job right (as with any tradesperson) you will not be reliant on them, they will give you the tools to assist yourself……

but I dont think the “fix it yourself, dont rely on others” attitude is helpful

It’s intended as a positive message. No one has more time for you than you do, and it’s your thought processes that have to be fixed, and you that dug the whole you’re in (I’m not talking about reactive depression here, as I know nothing about it). The point being that once you’re emotionally self sufficient, you can give of yourself unstintingly because you have nothing to lose.

Another vote for laying off booze BTW. I have been dry now for nearly 9 months.

I’d agree but 9months is excessive. Are you pregnant?

fix it yourself, dont rely on others

I think I’m firmly in the middle on this one (this fence is very comfortable). It’s good to have others around to help, but ultimately only you are responsible for you, and others cannot help you if you don’t want to help yourself.

But then, otoh what do I know, not allowing people “in” is one of my ishooos 🙄

wow, i never knew there would be so many people on here with helpful advice regarding this, i really did expect 10 messages all saying MTFU

I just went to the docs and they were as useful as a chocolate teapot (had to go with a doc i’ve not seen before as i’m off my work with this and needed and appointment quickly rather than waiting 4 weeks to see my usual doc) she just doubled my medication…….which they did about 6 weeks ago and that just made me feel worse.

Reading up on the CBT stuff at the moment (never thought about riding a motorbike before………see, my sense of humour is still fairly intact) and i’m going to try the list’s that people have suggested. Also going to try and contact a few old friends that i’ve not seen for a long while.

Thank you everyone, it’s good to know it’s not just me

But then, otoh what do I know, not allowing people “in” is one of my ishooos

well, as ole Bob has told us, “It’s good to talk”, but perhaps not too necessary for the listeners to pay much attention beyond the occasional nod 🙂

when it comes to lists, the best one I learned was to pay attention to your negative thoughts and write them down, and then write a rebuttal for each one, like this

T: I’m useless at everything I do
R: I do a well paid, complicated job and get good reports and run a bike successful club

T: no women will ever fancy me
R: I’ve been married twice and women show every sign of enjoying my company

T: Nobody likes me
R: You have plenty of friends, and it wouldn’t matter anyway

etc etc

the point being that you tend to think bad things about yourself, which make you feel worse and think even worse things, until you don’t want to live, but in fact the negative stuff is mostly rubbish anyway, and after a few weeks you don’t have to write anything down, it becomes an automatic mental reflex. For me this was the one list to rule them all Frodo.

Liking that idea Mr Barnes…. mentally i now, almost, work in that way

as someone once said(ish…)

‘Positive thought / action is the best drug known to man’ …..

and run a bike successful club

😆 Excellent.

I think everyone can learn from such lists, it’s always better to look at what you do have in the context of what you think you have not got.

I just went to the docs and they were as useful as a chocolate teapot (had to go with a doc i’ve not seen before as i’m off my work with this and needed and appointment quickly rather than waiting 4 weeks to see my usual doc) she just doubled my medication…….which they did about 6 weeks ago and that just made me feel worse.

(I’d be happy for a medic to post up and confirm the following isn’t true….)

As I understand it, GPs are scored (and possibly remunerated) on the treatment of a series of specified illnesses. Obesity (and its related diseases) is one, depression and mental illness another. In my view, this and the training of medics (“it’s best solved with the issue of prescription drugs”) results in a simple handing out of medication.

I don’t like this approach since, as plenty of others have pointed out, there’s more to combatting this than lying back and taking the meds. Sure, they can be useful, but never take any medicine unless you believe it will have – and continues to have – a beneficial result.

Mrs North resisted ever higher doses of anti-depressants, and I believe that – combined with CBT and her other approaches – was for her the right thing to do. Why? Seroxat made her really ill. Citalopram wasn’t so bad, but she never moved beyond 20mg (quite deliberately). Just taking stronger doses without doing anything else won’t automaticaaly make you better. It’s about the combined approach.

ALAIHW,

Your definitely not alone with this. I am also currently off work with chronic stress/depression/anxiety/burnout etc. I am also not having too good an experience this time round with the Docs etc being passed from one GP registrar to another whilst my own GP has been away I assume long term sick himself! My advantage maybe that I have been though all this before and am no stranger to severe disabling depression.

Not wishing to pry and I am no doctor but it does sound as if you have been on the same medication for some time perhaps 8-10 weeks with at least one prior dosage adjustment without any significant improvement. I would have expected the GP to have tried a different anti-depressant by now?

There is no doubt that AD drugs work but first line/choice ADs probably only work in about 60-70% of cases whereas the success rate is closer to 80% when a alternative drug is tried. Drug choice is very much a case of trial and error and what drug works well for one person can be a living hell for another. GPs are also governed by NICE guidelines so that they need to initiate treatment with a generic SSRI AD such as prozac (fluoxetine) or an equivalent.

First time round it took trials with 3 different meds before we found one that worked for me.

I would also expect you to be having regular appointments with your GP perhaps every 10 to 14 days until you are “stable”. I am led to believe that after an intial trial period of 3-4 weeks (the commonly held view is that ADs cause nothing but side effects for the first two weeks), then any dosage adjustment would be evident with a futher trial of a couple of weeks. But from you post above it almost sounds like you have had no contact with the GP for last 6 weeks?

Things will get better but unfortunately it will take time and there are no quick fixes. Your natural confidence will come back gradually and on its own as the depression itself lifts.

Best of luck
Gary

GJP – (and this may surprise you) but this has been going on for 5 years, was on Fluoxotine for 2 years, this plateu’d in its effectiveness and was moved to Citalopram which i’ve been on for 3.

I’ve lived with this for a while and was told it was a form of OCD, only recently (past 4-6 months) has it been symptoms relating to depression.

Saw a phsycologist style nurse for over a year but she only talked about cars and motorbikes for some reason. Went to an NHS clinical phsycologist after that who diagnosed OCD (one of the symptoms she told me was bad timekeeping) who had a flakey at me for being 5 minutes late for our appointment.

As I’ve only really had recognised this as depression recently it’s like going back to square one with treatment while the detremental effect it has on home and work life continues

ok, enough brain dumping. A big thank you to everyone on here, you’ve all been a massive help today 😀

I’ve been on vanlfaxine pills for depression for quite a few years,and what i’ve found very usefull for me is not beating myself up with thoughts like ‘should do’ or ‘should be able to’ and ‘ought to’ and ‘have to’ etc. Any thoughts where you tell yourself that you shouldn’t be quite as how you are,if you don’t quite feel like you can do something,conteract them with something positive.

Also don’t worry to much about being dependent on other people,it’s always a risk with people in general i think,even when they’re not on pills for depression,and some time in the future the person who you might lean on a bit now could be needing the same favour from you,or you might be able to help them out financially or some other way than being there to be lent on,it’s sort of what friends are for i think.

Also seeing friends just to sit and ‘be’ with is important,whether ou talk about anything deep or not doens’t always matter,and sometimes the not talking about things is what you need,to just sit and be amused by thier quirks as a person or whatever is what’s needed.

I find a day or an afternoon at the weekend being fully imersed in somewhere in the countryside is a good thing for me,if I can do it on a sunday,i find that the memory of it last’s untill about towards the end of tuesday,and can help with the first bit of the week which is sometimes a bit grim.

Good luck and stay hopefull.
Tim

The OCD angle is interesting – I know of someone who uses ADs to keep their OCD under control. Without them it comes back.

Sunds like more than drugs are what you need. But also demanding a referral to see someone else for a second opinion wouldn’t be a bad thing, too.

Stick at it.

Here’s a hands up from someone else who’s been through it. There’s some good advice on here but my tip would be don’t limit yourself to one approach, I don’t think that there’s a magic bullet that will sort out depression but the cumulative effects of a variety of approaches can make a real difference.

Exercise, and riding, is good but sometimes depression can be so crippling that just getting out of bed can be too much. Therapy is good too but don’t discount pills – I don’t see them as a solution but equally they can really help (sometimes just enough to lift you enough to try the other things) and I don’t see taking them as anything different to taking painkillers when you’re in pain (which in a psychological sense you are).

I have to say that I don’t agree with the “Depression is essentially self destruction – you have to learn to stop doing it.” line myself (although mood and positive thinking can make a difference), I’ve had bad cyclic depression which could just come out of nowhere, sometimes when things are great, and cripples you (it can lift just as suddenly too).

On the OCD front I have this big time and use tri-cyclic anti-depressents to keep it under control. I’ve kind of drawn a line between nasty side-effects and crippling OCD and found an ok dose, therapy and group work has added to my arsenal too.

In my experience OCD can give you such a tough time that it makes you depressed although I don’t know if there’s any sort of recognised link. People have mentioned CBT for depression but it’s also a great approach to OCD. I did some CBT based group work with an organisation called Triumph Over Phobia, which really helped. Just talking about things can make a huge difference too and help ease the feeling of isolation and that you’re some sort of unique weirdo; mental health issues are pretty common (although still not always talked about) as this thread shows.

Have suffered on and off with depression for the last 20 yrs or so.
Done the anti-depressant route(three times), counselling (three times…even paid some toss-pot £100 an hour once!!)!! (What a mug am I!!!) 8)

BUT then I read Richard Carlson’s book… “Stop thinking Start living” and know that I will NEVER be depressed again. I may get a bit down, but never really depressed.
aslongasithaswheels… buy it, read it, and if it does nothing for you, let me know and I’ll send you the money!!!!

Another really fantastic book…”Way of the peaceful warrior” by Dan Millman. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but a fantastic read.
HTH

FCx

I was a bit depressed,then I read Foxychicks thread, and I feel better now!

“High five with FC”

I have recently had a 12 months of crap from my previous employer,I ended up having 6 months or so sick leave with “work related stress”due to a backpain problem that I have,I am very lucky to have a couple of close mates that have helped me through it,but I do still feel very depressed about the whole thing,and ended up quitting after 20 years in the role.

Theres some exellent threads on here, and I have also been reading Richard Carlsons book as reccomended by Fc,all good stuff.

I am not really qualified to give out expert advice but heres a couple of things that I have noticed myself in the last 12 months or so.

1 avoid the booze,it seems to have a negative effect the following morning(irespective of quantitys consumed) and I think makes you feel more depressed.(Theres nowt wrong with the odd blowout tho!) 😉

2 Avoid fatty takeaway foods,they slow down your body and will make you feel worse.

3 Try to get to bed early, and avoid coffee after 6pm

4 Its important to talk things through (CBT)Ideally with someone you dont know but you feel comfortable with.

5 exercise/cycling is very good for depression but dont overdo it,avoid setting goals and deadlines,and ride to enjoy it!,with a treat at the end of the day,cake,or a small bar of dark choccy!

6 I have found pilates very good for relaxing the mind,and its great for the feel good factor too.

I think pretty much everythings been said by previous posters, good luck with getting over it, there’s been some great sense typed into these little boxes.

CBT was a good start but Gestalt therapy worked best for me, i paid for it privately, its not cheap but “i’m worth it”.

Yoga is great, it was my salvation in the early days and 10 years on its still helps to keep me even. The side effect is that its also great for keeping supple and flexible.

Excercise is another one that has given hope, cycling, running & walking as well as the yoga have all become part of my life as the chemicals produced during excercise are a great natural cure for deppression.

The tip for getting off to sleep i use is to read in bed, its clears the mind of all the clutter. The meditation i learnt in yoga can also help. (Yoga nidra = sleeping yoga)apparently.

Its a slow process so be kind to your self, i hope you find whats right for you.

Threads like this make you realise that when you cut through all the utter sh1te posted on here, stw really is worthwhile after all.

Can’t really offer any advice beyond the great stuff people have posted. I’ve been on citalopram for about 2 years, and thankfully it works for me.

Happy vibes going your way though! 🙂

Threads like this make you realise that when you cut through all the utter sh1te posted on here, stw really is worthwhile after all.

Ohh err. Back in my first year of Uni I was struggling mentally, went to see a Psychiatrist who prescribed me Imipramine. TBH (IN MY CASE), if he had actually listened to me abit more (I had alot of stuff to get off my chest) he wouldnt have had to give me the chemical kosh.
Thankfully I threw the pills in the bin and talked alot to my mates. They helped not by giving me advice- just listening. Alot slotted into place on reflection.

Recently Ive found that Ive been drinking (I put a thread up last month) everyday. Not alot, just constant- almost like a crutch. ****, coming home and doing nothing but sat infront of the TV was becoming cyclic. I’ve broken that spell now thanks in part to friends and STW’ers again.

It’s interesting to see the wide range of approaches, which reflects the fact that we’re all different and need to tackle the problem differently!

Threads like this make you realise that when you cut through all the utter sh1te posted on here, stw really is worthwhile after all.

I was thinking just the same thing as I washed the pots this morning MrsF – it’s great that so many folk have ‘held their hand up’ to this and are proffering their thoughts / experience…. and not a single ‘just MTFU’ contribution…… 😀

It’s interesting to see the wide range of approaches, which reflects the fact that we’re all different and need to tackle the problem differently!

yup, the world would be a dull place if we were all the same.. 😉

thanks to all for posting – the thread got me thinking as I was sat on the train last night, reflecting on my life over the last 2 years, can’t quite believe the changes (for the better) in me…… 8)

If anyone wants to give CBT techniques a try, there’s a website here that can help:

http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

I still keep thinking/imagining people riding a moped around a yard looking confused and down 😐

Yep agree with most of what’s been said
– I’ve got a bit of a hangup about going to Dr’s about depression due to my grandfather’s experience (he was diagnosed in the 1940’s) – me and my sister get mild depression (i.e. we can function but are miserable) rather than clinical depression. So I’ve always relied on the fix yourself BUT getting help is the more sensible option.

My father-in-law is happy with his Prozac; it works for him. So like SofB says – you’ve got to find an approach that works for you.

I found St. Johns Wort did help through the really bad patches – although now I’m more experienced at noticing the start of a downward spiral and so putting my defence mechanisms in place.
Making little goals; the philosophy of ‘chop wood, carry water’ it’s about making sure you have a daily routine that you follow
e.g. “It’s 8a.m. I get up and have a healthy breakfast (even if I don’t feel like doing either)”
Find a way of expressing how you feel if talking to people doesn’t work for you (I write poetry – it’s crap poetry but is a very cathartic process)
Get out and ride – exercise and getting out into nature have shown positive effects on depression.
I also do Yoga, actually due to a bad back, but it does seem to help keep me on an even keel. The meditation and breathing aspects of Yoga are now part of my defence mechanisms.

On the nights when I couldn’t sleep I found that just lying there seemed to rest the body – although now I use meditation and breathing exercises.

On the whole recognising where you are is the first step to halting the downward spiral, getting back into an upward spiral (e.g. getting physically fitter etc…) then helps improve your confidence.

Finally a Zen story.
A student had heard that his master had just become enlightened and so rushed to find him
“Master, what is it like now that you are enlightened?”
The Master looked at his student and smiled
“Well, you know, I’m still miserable.”

I think the first thing is that “aslongasithaswheels” recognises he has a problem and wants to solve it.

If you keep using the same techniques to get better and it doesn’t work-find an alternative that works for you.

I found sunlight and exercise with youtube comedy sketches and positive people help.

I was diagnosed as severe SAD, so for me, exercise and holiday in the sun during winter.

Find the cause if you can before you treat symptoms-then you can recognise when you start feeling off and fix it quick.

I think with so many positive people on here backing you up is a great thing.

Find a way of expressing how you feel

One of the lessons I had to learn is that feelings are meaningless – they’re what animals have in place of thought – but as humans we can decide our emotions. I’m not saying emotions don’t feel good or bad, but they are broadly under conscious control – and emerge from our thoughts. Once you realise that you are not mere flotsam on a sea of unwitting emotion, you can take control.

As for expressing how you feel, IMO depressive feelings are very boring for everyone, including the sufferer, and best left unsaid. Talk instead about strategies for improving the situation or other happy stuff.

I bought that David Burns book that sfb posted up (….last time he posted it up….) – a very useful book indeed and well worth the money – full of good ideas and info/strategies

Ayahuasca fixed me. Now my life is ace fantastic and im happy all of the time. All self loathing gone, vanished into the air, many questions about the point of my existence answered and depression never visits me anymore.

<http://www.ayahuasca.com/&gt;

very interesting subject.

Kev

A fantastic thread. I’m going through a bad bout of reactive depression at the moment. It’s been very useful to read about the various strategies tried.

I’ve been trying to surround myself with positive influences and focusing on the solution to my situation rather than the problem itself.

*high fives Gavgas* 8)

I really urge anyone and everyone, whatever their state of mind, to read the books I’ve mentioned in my post above.
I SO regret the years that I have “suffered” from depression.
I’ll be 44 in the summer, problably more than half way through my life.
Life’s too short…
NEGATIVE THOUGHTS…the sole cause of depression. It’s impossible to “feel” depressed without first having a negative thought.
It’s your mind that you need to get to grips with and your thought processes…easier said than done, I know.

Oh, and the things Gav mentions also really help…avoid alcohol…still working on that one! (My greatest downfall! 😕 )

Great supportive thread…feel better that loads of others feel crapadoody a lot of the time too! 8)

Muddypaddle…it’s not the life changing event itself that causes the depression…but the negative thoughts that go with it.

My 2 worst cases were post natal depression…after my children were born. Now having my children is the best thing that has ever happened to me. BUT at one point when my daughter was about 8 weeks old, MrFC had to break the bathroom door down as I was threatening to kill myself.
My state had nothing to do with being a mother and everything to do with my expectations and thoughts about it, details of which I’m not going to go into.
I was put on Seroxat for 2 yrs, which was hell on earth. Coming off Seroxat was the worst experience of my life.
I have not posted this to p1ss you off muddypuddle…it’s just something I have come to realise.
I also spent months and months talking through my “problems”, making them more and more real in my head…the very worst thing I could have done.

As I said previously, it is impossible to feel something without thinking it first.
Sh1t happens to everyone. For some it’s a major event, for others it can take place over many years, wearing them down.

We have to choose how we react to events.
We are in charge of our feelings.

Sorry if you disagree with me MP…the last thing I want to do is cause offence on such a sensitive thread, but I really do believe what I am posting.

Oh, and crapadoody is such a great word!! 8)

I symathise with all the above and agree with much of the advice given here, a good doctor helps and so do good friends.

When I went to the doctors, I was offered an appointment with the old family GP who was retired, but covering a holiday absence, he was a bit old school, but IMO gave me the ability to begin to control my depression, and now 7 years later feel as though it is beaten. I had been depressed for 10 or so years, sometimes not too bad sometimes very hard to live with.

His advice was, medication can control the symptoms but very rarely does it lead to a cure.
Do drink less alcohol, less caffeine, I now drink a few beers a week, but rarely more than 4 pints a week, and no caffeine
One of the features of depression is to remember your life as a series of embarassing, unhappy memories or memories of decisions you regret. Change that, take time every day and force yourself to remember the good times. I still do this and these memories are now ‘bigger’ in my head than the bad ones, if you find it hard to remember any good memories try looking through old photos, move on if they trigger bad memories, linger and flesh out good ones.

Another is the long dark of the night, where you end up mulling over some problem or worry in your life (whether justified or not) for hours at night, reducing your sleep, find a way to get out of that thought pattern. Mountain biking was my way out, I visualise myself at the top of my favourite bit of singletrack and go ride it, and every time my mind slips away somewhere else force myself back again, try to visualise every move, every stone, root and tree. This takes a bit of practice, but does work, It has been a long time since I found myself having to do this, I sleep better, and so my brain works better, I feel better about myself.

Good luck, for me recognising that I needed help was the first stage, but I got lucky and was given the advice which fits for me, I believed in it, and through that spark of belief in myself have been able to turn my life round completly.

I don’t want to say that I am happy, because happiness is ephemeral, it comes it goes, but I am content with myself and my life, and that will be the same tomorrow.

hi guys

want to give out a massive high five to everyone for posting on this, I have to admit this post was a bit of a last resort for me, you get sick of all the crap ideas and the “pull yourselves together” that people can resort to.

Then you post on here and get 70 odd helpful and supportive replies…….well let’s just say i got a bit of a lump in my throat tonight.

Just wanted to say with all sincerity a really big thanks to everyone

Have to agree with what MrsFlash posted…there’s some complete dross poste on STW but a thread like this is worth all the sh1te!

andlongasithaswheels…you are SO not alone! 🙂

muddy…off road biking is so good, not only because of the exercise endorphins…but I have to concentrate so hard not to come off I can think of nothing else! 8)

Sound advice foxychick, 🙂

One of the nurses I have seen in the past came from south Africa,Years ago she,(Vicki) owned a tea plantation and employed lots of people from the local community.

It was always surprising to her that everyone was always so happy,even though they were paid very little in wages,(In western terms) and actually had very few possesions.No one ever complained, and very few workers took time off sick.
This was right in the middle of all of the farm/land government reclemation troubles, and lots of familys were suffering with severe traumas at some point or other,some lost loved ones,there homes,and everything they had, “There was no such thing as cbt then” she would say,yet some how the coping mechaisems would kick in,and people just carried on!

or maybe no one really recognised the big D as an issue, and it was all in there heads?,and not talked about.

I sometimes think its easy to get caught up in a material world where having the latest football shirt, or toptastic trainers is the most important “thing”.

Money seems to rule everything these days,and in my previous job I could afford some nice toys, but once your health starts to deteriorate,and you recognise this, it kinda puts things into perspective as to what really matters.

Cool thread.

I’m now in my 15th month off work due to deep depression and anxiety. Following a life changing situation which has left me a shadow of my former self. The main thing I have learned is how many people have been or are in a similar situation. It seems those who it hasn’t hit are in the minority some days. I won’t offer any advice as it’s all been said, and certainly MTFU is not in any way helpful.

Just bear in mind you are not alone, and people can and do recover.