sick of reading self help books, taking tablets and seeing unsympathetic doctors.

Don’t want to bore anyone with the ins and out and the why’s and where-nots (i’ve started to bore myself)

So does anyone have any good suggestions for battling depression and building confidence? ………or is it a case of MTFU?

Its a case of surrounding yourself with things you enjoy doing and people who will kick you into doing them, IMO. You can have fun stuff to do but when depressed you rarely feel like doing even the stuff you used to love, unless someone forces you to.

Change who you ride with

As Coffeeking says, do stuff, even if you don’t feel like doing it. Cognitive behaviourial therapy is supposed to be good and might be worth a go if you haven’t tried it already.

It’s a spiral thing I find, like coffeeking says. You can either spiral down or attempt to get yourself back into an upwards spiral again.

hypnotherapy for the confidence? counselling?

List making also works well. Put everything you need to do on a list and tick it off when you have done it. doesn’t matter if it’s really small things like “hoovering” or “supermarket shop”, you still get that feeling of accomplishment which can make you feel like going on to tackle the bigger things as well.

Keep track of everything positive that happens to you and write it down. Read the list back to yourself each evening.

Positive stuff might be as simple as successfully mending a puncture first time. Don’t focus on the fact you got the puncture, focus on the fact you fixed it. Other stuff might be getting a fried egg out of the pan without splitting the yolk. Write down ALL positive things.

Occasionally read back through the lists from the days and weeks earlier.

Hopefully you will find that over time the stuff you write down changes from the trivial seeming egg example to major and seriously good things.

Also do the normal good things with exercise, diet, reduced alcohol etc. and MTFU obviously 😉

confidence is a pretence, like a mask. wear it for long enough and it will become normal.

I recognise this will sound like strange/fanciful advice, but from experience I have found it to be hugely beneficial.

Get yourself into Bikram Yoga – the one done in the hot room, and do it at least five times per week. As a result of the yoga, you will naturally feel inclined to eat a better diet and start making all sorts of positive changes.

It worked for me and other people around me. Strangely powerful stuff.

I recognise I sound like a wacky hippy, but what if it works?

Mrs North swore by CBT to get her out of a really bad depression last year. She tried “regular” counselling, but (for her) found that speaking to someone who then didn’t challenge her thought processes didn’t help. Her CBT counsellor pushed and challenged her, which really helped her get inside her thinking.

The drugs helped – when she found the right one – as they helped “even out” her moods (though by no means made her “happy”), but she said that the CBT was the best thing for her.

I also made sure I was there for her all the time. It’s really hard as a non-depressed person not to want to wade in and verbally give them a (loving) shake, but I resisted that and allowed her to let it out when is suited her, and to be challeneged in her thinking by her CBT counsellor. I’m very much of the view that MTFU is not at all helpful.

I suspect it won’t be the last time she suffers from depression (though I hope not as deep as this one), and I reckon she’ll return to CBT quickly.

From what I have seen (I have no first hand experience of feeling like this), it’s something that takes time. There isn’t a magic pill or a single, standard answer. You are an individual and will need to find the combination of therapies and requirements that work for you. But, it can be done and you can make yourself better.

Good luck

Tom

In a word…exercise! I know its easier said than done, but it really does make you feel better about yourself.

I was made redundant 3 weeks ago after the administrators were called in. It was a good job that I enjoyed doing and I’m gutted that I’m not doing it anymore. I’ve set up a home office and really thrown myself into job hunting, feel like I keep getting knocked back. But its important to be pragmatic about things and not take things personally.

What has really helped with confidence and how I feel about myself and the world is getting out on my bike and hammering the gym. I’m as fit as I’ve ever been and this gives me the confidence to keep on keeping on!

All the best

em, stupid question (my brain doesn’t function on these damn tablets) but what is CBT?

In no way shape or form am i an expert, but I suggest:

Ride more often and ride harder everytime
Take up a new sport and stick with it for a few months
Give up alcohol completely
Every time you see someone (anyone) smile
Make a plan; identify…what you want in the end, how long it will take and what incremental progress is realistic then stick to it come hell or high water.

These things work for me but everyone is different and part of life is understanding who you are and what makes you tick. Good luck.

Ask for another GP. Im my experience a supportive GP is essential in sorting yourself out. My original fella was a utter twonk and approached it with what is it? Sex?? Money?? Relationship?? Then gave me a inappropriate prescription and crap advice all of which actually made me worse. When he retired his replacement expressed incredulity at the actions taken, immediately reversed most of what had been done and started me along a long path which has slowly but surely taken me in the right direction at long last.

Personally, I would exercise as regularly and as much as you can. Try to avoid things that do you in, and most of all persevere at getting good help. It is out there and you can feel better.

cognitive behavioural therapy could well be an option worth trying.

I had an unpleasant patch in the tail end of last year. For me, actually talking to a sympathetic doctor seems to have made all the difference (I started to feel spectacularly better before it was theoretically likely that the pills he had prescribed me could have had any effect). I certainly just had to take the conscious decision that the self-help books, the pills, the doctor and all the CBT bollocks were going to help even though my natural inclination is to be very sceptical of all that sort of thing. My experience was that the conscious process of telling myself that it was all working made it work. Feel free to pm if you like.

Spent the last few years of uni in a bad mood as i could no longer ride due to a bashed up knee, as a result of being a miserable chubby bugger i didnt get laid, which meant i got even more moody, etc etc etc

Got that fixed, and was happy, now its buggered again i seem to be drinking a fair bit. So the house is now empty of alcohol apart from a bottle of cooking brandy for pancakes (can’t stand drinking the stuff so no danger there!).

Maybe i should go to the doc’s. Might help, but i usualy find as long as i can put my mind to something like swimming, cycling, sailing, might even take up climbing or cannoeing, then I’m fine.

The best things for me were:
Good friends (the mind numbingly optimistic/positive ones are very good and the ones who have been through similar problems and can tell you it gets better are good to (but not the introspective types who want to talk about issues)).

Getting back into sport & exercise (Good friends who aren’t going to give you a choice whether to get out or not are good here to).

Stepping back from things to get a sense of perspective back.

It only natural that your confidence will take a kicking but that comes back.

The drugs work but they don’t solve your problems if you can try and address them sooner rather than later.

Another vote for laying off booze BTW. I have been dry now for nearly 9 months.

I agree with the above.

Almost everyone seems to find CBT extremely beneficial. And I think it’s available on NHS, but the waiting list is prolly v long. I may be wrong on both counts, so see your GP. And if you’re not comfortable with him, see another one.

But outside of professional help: Set goals in life. Think about what you want. Then set about the ways to get there. Do things you enjoy. Sounds simple, but if you’re in a bit of a funk then it can be hard to get going even with the things you love and it’s a vicious circle that can get harder and harder to break. Break through that inertia. There are huge chemical changes in the body associated with things like exercise and laughing and socialising and being in the frsh air. So try to do them as much as possible. Just always try to be proactive – from that comes the sense of control of your destiny than breeds confidence.

And, as this thread makes clear, realise that lots of people have these issues and you’re not alone in this.

Almost everyone seems to find CBT extremely beneficial. And I think it’s available on NHS, but the waiting list is prolly v long. I may be wrong on both counts, so see your GP.

Right, wrong, right.

CBT is very helpful. It is available on NHS supported websites and you can help yourself at home. I would link to it here but it’s better that you see your GP first.

lots of people have these issues and you’re not alone in this

Ditto what Chela said.

It was a huge thing for me to realise that, through a similar thread to this one on STW some time back. Simply put if everyone suffering as we are had as a symptom a large green dot on their forehead, the government would not be delivering leaflets about swineflu. Depression is absolutely an epidemic, and that is only now starting to be realised. Large amounts of funding are being put into the treatment and diagnosis of it. So things are going to get easier and better.

Personally I talk about it honestly and openly whenever its appropriate, and I never fail to be amazed how many people perk up and relate to what you are saying through their own experience.

So no aloneness for you my lad. Lots of support everywhere though.

you will never beat depression, the best you can hope for is an illusion of confidence and an ability to place justifiable feelings on the backburner, simply to protect your friends family from your situation.

stop taking the pills.

IANALOAD

and people who will kick you into doing them, IMO

it’s better to learn to be self reliant, as it can be very tedious for others to try to supply you with motivation.

This fixed me in a few weeks (while I was waiting for NHS CBT):

you will never beat depression, the best you can hope for is an illusion of confidence

bollocks IMO, though it’s true I can sometimes feel the hints of a relapse before I stamp then out.

CBT:

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cognitive-behavioural-therapy/Pages/Introduction.aspx

It sounds a bit airy-fairy but it helped a very depressed friend, and there is also research showing its effectiveness.

em, stupid question (my brain doesn’t function on these damn tablets) but what is CBT?

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Wiki link to Cognitive Behavioural Therapy – as good a place to start as any..!

Note that not all CBT practitioners are the same. You may need to try more than one to find the right person for you.

Also, be aware that, while available on the NHS, I believe the waiting lists can be long. As such, you may need to pay for it yourself (which is what Mrs North did).

Some good, useful stuff here.

However, when making yourself do something – like, say, exercise – don’t try to do something mammoth. A gentle walk in the fresh air for 20 minutes is as good a start as any.

And the list thing is good. Mrs Flash makes a good point about having small, achieveable tasks on there.

You can move forward, but it does take some time. It’s like Rome: not built in a day.

It sounds a bit airy-fairy but it helped a very depressed friend, and there is also research showing its effectiveness.

It’s NOT! What appealed to me is that it gives you things to do to actively overcome depression, rather than passively taking tablets with nasty & embarrassing side effects

Mrs Flash makes a good point about having small, achieveable tasks on there.

When I was at my worst, “get out of bed” was often top of the list 😀

I agree with OMITN though, DO NOT start with the big stuff, you will feel overfaced. Start small and work up.

It’s NOT!

That’s me told then. 🙂

it’s better to learn to be self reliant, as it can be very tedious for others to try to supply you with motivation.

True, but without others to help you are just going to do nothing about it as it takes effort and it’s easier to just carry on as normal. That was my feeling anyway. I’m fortunate that I have plenty of good friends and family who keep me entertained whether I like it or not! 🙂

Those who have “beaten” depression:

Was it a single massive episode that came from nowhere? Or had you been just a bit up and down all your life then felt the need to deal with it?
Do you feel vulnerable to it now?

As Mrs Flash says, making lists is a good step. Doing things right and thinking personally when things go right is the first step. However, if things go wrong, dont scauld yourself by saying it always happens to me. If you get annoyed, go out for a jog. When I was depressed last year, I didnt see one doctor (Maybe not the best way of doing it) but I battled it out by a network of good friends, burying myself in my work and jogging every evening, listening to screamy heavy thrash metal! Thinking about all the problems whilst jogging and pushing myself would lead me to get home and cry, but in a way that was great as it was two outputs.

I found that lists, no matter how small, helped.
I found doing something new, no matter whether it be going into a new shop, or saying hi to someone in the street helped. Mix it up.
thidly, jogging and crying. Maybe not all in that order.
Fourthly, catching up with old friends helps give a new perspective on things.

I have never had CBT, but it certainly has helped alot of people on here.

Most of all, you need to figure out whats put you in this. Whether its repression of something, losing your job or stuck in a rut, its important to figure out, and to keep thinking about it. It may make you iniatially lower to think about it, but it will also help you figure out how to get around it.

I get the downs now and again, and I find it really is a case of MTFU. However, if you just tell yourself your’re being lame and need to the MTFU – you then feel even more lame and depressed because you’re lame and depressed over something pathetic, making you feel even more lame and pathetic.

Make some lists, write stuff down and try and take baby steps in the right direction. Even if you only do one tiny positive thing a day – it won’t take long for that to add up and become the beginnings of a turn around.

Those who have “beaten” depression:

Was it a single massive episode that came from nowhere? Or had you been just a bit up and down all your life then felt the need to deal with it?
Do you feel vulnerable to it now?

Up and down all my life, and felt the need to deal with it a couple of times.
I’m not sure about “beating it” tbh, I feel that I may always be vulnerable, but I don’t know if that’s because I’m recovering from a bout at the moment so am generally feeling vulnerable.

Oh and check your diet and make sure you’re drinking enough water and not too much caffiene

aslongas….
nope, tis not a case of MTFU – i spent too many years beating myself over a combination of what might seem to others as ‘minor issues’ – we’re talking about the type of stuff that would mostly merit an ‘MTFU’ on here, and that was how i was thinking, however, MTFU was evidently not working….

In the end i sought out counselling.
Attempts #1 and #2 did not really get of the ground, don’t really know why, can only put it down to my ‘not connecting’ with the counsellor.
Attempt #3 – I simply looked up local counselors on t’web, liked the look and site content of the guy I ultimately used and we did click.
Over about 12 months we cleared that what was troubling me then moved on the ‘looking forward’..
Net result, I had the confidence to leave the day job last year and set up doing what I want to do, with confidence in myself (that had most certainly not been there before…) a supportive wife etc etc, and life just gets better…

I Look at counseling as an ongoing thing as well – if things are getting on top of me I still make an appointment.

So, my ‘top tips’
#1 – find a counsellor you are comfortable with

#2 Do not think of counseling not as any form of failure (I was also guilty of that) – look at it like you are a car… Counseling = a Major Service. Repeat visits = MOT

#3 – as above, tis not an ‘overnight’ resolution – I trusted Alan (counsellor) from the off, took us a month or six to work through stuff and ‘resolve the nitty gritty’ ….. the period after that was mostly about reinforcement and me ‘exploring myself and ideas’. Most importantly most of what I ‘learned’ (about 12 months ago now) is really only just taking hold in my mind / day to day life – not through conscious effort, it just does, to the extent that a I do, from time to time, catch myself thinking ‘heck, that’s a step change in xyz that i had not realised before…’

I do hope that all makes some sense….

HTH
Chris

ps – this is Alans’ site you may find some of the content useful.

Those who have “beaten” depression:

Was it a single massive episode that came from nowhere? Or had you been just a bit up and down all your life then felt the need to deal with it?
Do you feel vulnerable to it now?

Like I say, not been there myself….

For Mrs North, it was what might otherwise be described as burn out. It didn’t come out of the blue – it was (mainly) as the result of an unsustainable work situation.

She had nearly 7 months off work last year, which helped a lot. However, while we’re only around a year on from when she finally admitted to me and herself that there was a problem (it’s heartbreaking seeing someone who clearly has a problem but who has no way of telling you what it is), I think it’s still there.

She’s not in the bad way she was, but she does need to be careful that she doesn’t end up in the same place. So, for her, it requires a certain amount of vigilance: being conscious of external factors (work stress, lack of sleep, other anxieties) and the internal factors (thought processes that she has succesfully challenged through CBT).

While I can’t speak for anyone else, I think she has beaten this episode and, in order not to go down again, has had to change her life. Does that mean it isn’t “beaten”? Maybe, but then getting to where she has from where she was (literally looking into the abyss) means that the black dog is firmly back in it’s kennel.

Apart from trying to get regular exercise and keeping a good diet, get yourself a good counsellor. CBT on the NHS unfortunately didn’t help me at all. And because it didn’t work for me the NHS basically said they wouldn’t help me any further.

So I went private – went through about 6 or 7 people til I found someone who was able to both listen to what I had to say and challenge my thought processes.

Of course depends how much depression/lack of confidence is affecting your life. In my case I had to leave University, I couldn’t get out of bed on bad days, I didn’t want to see anyone etc. I’d say every penny well worth it – seeing as it’s allowed me to continue with my studies (and more importantly, my life)

It might be not that bad for you at the moment, but please don’t let it spiral down too far before doing something about it, as it could take a long time to dig yourself out

but without others to help you are just going to do nothing about it as it takes effort and it’s easier to just carry on as normal

relying on others encourages an unhelpful dependency – and what happens if for any reason they’re unavailable ? And sooner or later you are going to have to make an effort yourself, it’s no good waiting to be fixed.

Depression is essentially self destruction – you have to learn to stop doing it.

Those who have “beaten” depression

Like Mrs F says you don’t beat reactive depression (full on bipolar disorder is completely different ball game) you just learn to recognize things are starting to slide so you back off a bit. Its a bit like kids learning to assess risks riding a bike.

relying on others encourages an unhelpful dependency – and what happens if for any reason they’re unavailable ? And sooner or later you are going to have to make an effort yourself, it’s no good waiting to be fixed.

Becoming over reliant on other people is a risk but when your at the bottom of a hole its worth grabbing hold of the rope someone else has dropped you (just don’t expect them to pull you out)