Condensation and dehumidifiers

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  • Condensation and dehumidifiers
  • Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    As we’re working as a team, 5plus and I will split the 500+vat, you know fairs fair and all.

    😀

    Yes. The flow area of those oblongs are a bit crap, we prefer a decent round tube…

    and its not viable to maybe chisel the hole bigger than brick up and re-drill?

    5plusn8
    Member

    I prefer the neatness of a core drill, otherwise you have a shite making good mission around your pipe. Better to make it good first, then drill a super neat hole, making good is a piece of piss then.
    Also a core drill needs to be done in a complete wall really, otherwise it makes it difficult to keep it steady.

    5plusn8
    Member

    FYI, wrightyson should get his day rate. I just do inspections beginning and end. Give him all the £500+ vat. I just need my £1500 + vat by bank transfer.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    does my gratitude and respect not mean more to you than financial gain?

    fan ordered 😉

    5plusn8
    Member

    Its not gain, its compensation for giving up our time.

    stumpy01
    Member

    Regarding the square hole in the kitchen and associated ducting….this is exactly what we have for our extractor fan and it works fine.
    So, the top of the extractor connects into the rectangular ducting that runs along the top of the cupboards and out the wall.

    It must be working ok as when i come home from work I can often work out what is for dinner as soon as i get out the car because of the extracted food smells!
    Whether it’s better than 100mm round ducting, i am not sure, but i would expect if the x-section area was broadly the same as a 100mm circle then it should be pretty much the same.

    If you want to compare the difference between rectangular ducting to round, this mught help:

    http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/

    neilnevill
    Member

    sorry if already covered, I can’t be bothered to read through 3+ pages agan, but with the bathroom fan…the existing naff one…do you have anywhere for the air to enter the bathroom? leave the door open or a couple of goo sized vents in the door? if not, no fan will extract well

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    ok, update time……

    builder has been round and kyboshed some of these plans.

    looked at the kitchen and said nope, window lintel will be in the way of drilling a 100mm hole. yes, we could fill in the oblong hole and re-drill but he’d be happy with trying the oblong hole first for the price of a bit of ducting. ive now stripped the extractor fan down to see what we’ve got. this is how it looks, its a 120mm extractor, and hopefully screwfix will sell some sort of ‘oblong to round adaptor’.

    kitchen

    would you agree this is worth trying? only thing ill have to do now is get a hole cut in the stainless for some ducting.

    kitchen ducting.

    he looked at the bathroom and said nope, not enough room for another hole. if you want one lower to miss the soffit, thered now be the window lintel in its way. go even lower and youre not sposed to drill under a lintel and itd look crap halfway down a wall anyway.
    on the plus side he said hes sure that the original hole will be the right size so nothing lost trying it. happily hes right, id got me sizes wrong and hole and flexi ducting are indeed 100mm so i should be able to just swap and try.

    new fan has come, the vortice quadro and wow! was not expecting one that size, its like a ‘kin air conditioning unit!! thought theres no way thatll fit in that corner, but if i spin it 90 degrees itll fit as the duct is offset at the back.
    unfortunately the wiring wont reach now so ill have to extend it. which brings me to next question…..
    the fan ive taken down looks like it was on a ring which serves the hall/bathroom/toilet lighting, plus the security alarm. theres no chance that as this is a monster fan, that itll need to go on a socket ring main or owt is there? i should be able to use the original wiring extended with a couple of block adaptors?

    also, he looked at the window and said it just needs re-pointing which hes going to do for us.

    cheers

    neilnevill
    Member

    Got a battery power drill? Get this, it’ll cut the stainless and is easy to use/ do neatly

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FVY6L9J/ref=asc_df_B07FVY6L9J58373703/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22122&creativeASIN=B07FVY6L9J&linkCode=df0&hvadid=271972947501&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6570847697711074395&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045889&hvtargid=pla-540261566574

    Check the power and recommended fuse for the fan, I’m pretty sure you’ll be fine on a 5amp lighting circuit.

    Have you got vents in the bathroom door or some way to let air in? Else the fan will still struggle.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    Thanks, that looks a nifty little tool.

    couldnt find much info in the bumph, its a bit minimal, ill have another look in the morning, im sure itll be in there somewhere.

    no vents in door. cant believe we’re going from worrying about a fan not working at all, to trying to stop the door being sucked off its hinges 😀
    spose we’d just have to keep door closed whilst in the bath and then whereas we’d usually open a window and close the door, now we’d keep it open straight away….

    thanks

    neilnevill
    Member

    i didn’t check the specs, just googled nibbler, scrolled the answers to find the drill powered type, selected that as it was cheap and amazon. somewhere it will have the spec on max thickness of sheet in different materials…stainless probably about 1.5mm and the hood you have is likely about 0.8mm-1mm

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    sorry, i meant i didnt check the electric specs of the fan to see if its compatible with my existing wiring 🙂

    thanks

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    just looking at starting to wire the fan in. looking at this link to the documents, am i right in thinking you can choose between two speeds on it?

    http://www.fastlec-pdf.com/product_pdfs/VortQuadroRange.pdf

    thanks

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    well the super-dooper pigeon-sucking fans up and running, and initial excitement soon turned to dismay….

    moisture-meter in bathroom starts off at 64, lets see how much dryer it can get!!

    64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, then settles down at 71…… hmmmmmmm…… shurely shum mishtayk….

    bathroom window was shut to make sure it wasnt just blowing back in, bathroom door opened a crack to simulate a vent in the door…. then it twigged. or at least i hope it did.

    wife cooking sunday dinner, house a bit steamy, course…. its dragging the air from the house in isnt it! so the air its replacing is probably damper than whats in the bathroom.

    so….. could it actually be an amazing fan, bring in all the air from the rest of the house? time will tell. moisture meter (hygrometer?) is being moved about for tests, the hall outside the bathroom is 71 so 71 in the bathrooms all you can ask for really.

    its bloody loud tho, sounds like a jet engine warming up ready for the off, hope we get used to that…..

    neilnevill
    Member

    Yep, the house is damp air filled. The Sunday lunch is likely the big input there

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    its bloody loud tho, sounds like a jet engine warming up ready for the off, hope we get used to that…..

    well, its not getting any quieter, and thinking about long term, i think we’ll probably run the fan purely during a shower +30 mins, or straight after a bath for 30 mins. (impossible to relax in the bath with it going)

    one thing ive thought about doing to make the fan more effective (and quieter) is to drop the speed (its got 2 speeds) by swapping a wire over, and then remove the little plastic non return flap? i figure less speed but more efficiency (less resistance to air flow). youll remember the ducting goes into soffits and almost faces back on itself in the end due to the soffit angle.
    soffit
    not ideal for shifting air, but its all we can do. but that also means that its less likely we’d need the non-return flap do you think? theres not going to be any wind blowing up there, so i can only think its only use would be for spiders, insects, baby robins etc….

    good idea or no, we really need to keep the flap.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    Our old house wouldn’t drop below the kind of levels of humidity OP is now getting. The big difference is that we were circulating the air around with PPV.

    neilnevill
    Member

    It will take time for fittings in the house to dry out, carpet, wood, everything. But if you use the fan as you say, and sort the kitchen too, by next winter you’ll notice a big difference.

    I have a tiny axial bathroom fan but it goes straight through the wall, I have a good kitchen extractor and I have 2 stoves which continually shift a lot of air. My house has humidity levels in the high 30s and low 40s currently. I am now actively adding humidity in cold dry spells using the clothes horse to dry clothes instead of the tumble drier. Shifting air really does work but not overnight so don’t be too disappointed.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    The big difference is that we were circulating the air around with PPV.

    sorry, just to be sure, are you saying you werent impressed with PPV as it just circulated air rather than dried it out?

    thanks neil, your house is too dry?? oh to have your problem 😀

    anyone think removing the non-return flap is a viable idea or recipe for disaster?

    stumpy01
    Member

    anyone think removing the non-return flap is a viable idea or recipe for disaster?

    What are you hoping to achieve by removing this? The spring loading on these is ridiculously light, so adds very little resistance to the system & I doubt it adds much in the way of noise.

    It’s one of those things where you might not need it, but it probably doesn’t hurt to leave it in.
    How easy is it to remove, try out for a while & replace if it is obviously required?

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    What are you hoping to achieve by removing this? The spring loading on these is ridiculously light, so adds very little resistance to the system & I doubt it adds much in the way of noise.

    when i pressed it it seemed stronger than i imagined, i thought itd move a lot easier. its only a noise issue indirectly, im considering lowering the speed (and thus the noise) and thought to counteract that id make the air exit easier.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    sorry, just to be sure, are you saying you werent impressed with PPV as it just circulated air rather than dried it out?

    Sorry not very clear. No very impressed by PPV.

    Our house followed to some extent the external humidity which varies dramatically in itself.

    General range was between 85-65% but the lower humidity was only ever achieved in high pressure times when either freezing cold or hot summer days.

    The PPV did more IMO to prompt good air circulation

    hammy7272
    Member

    We’ve just installed a PPV system through Envirovent. Been running for two weeks now. Very happy with it, air is fresher and the condensation has gone from under the windows.

    trail_rat
    Member

    What humidity did you expect the ppv to get to ? Surely external humidity is as low as you can expect .

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    Surely external humidity is as low as you can expect .

    tried explaining this to my wife, the ideal can only be what it is outside. i stuck my meter out on the drive, it read 67%. only way of bettering that is dehumidifier i expect, but no point if the air around it is higher?

    i must admit, after a bath/shower and the fan on for another 20 mins, the humidity has on occasion dropped into the mid 50s, but i expect its the same outside at that point too.

    Premier Icon phiiiiil
    Subscriber

    Surely external humidity is as low as you can expect .

    Warm air has a much greater capacity for holding water, so if cold air from outside at 100% humidity is brought inside and heated up its relative humidity falls significantly.

    We used to find that the humidity inside was fine during the really cold months when the heating was on, fine during summer when everything was dry anyway, but much worse during early spring and late autumn when outside wasn’t that much colder but was a lot wetter.

    Premier Icon phiiiiil
    Subscriber

    Try this:

    https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm

    Air at 0 deg C, 100% RH has an RH of just 29% when heated to 20 deg C.

    neilnevill
    Member

    Outside air at 67% rh and ~5C is fairly dry. That air comes in and warms up, as it warms it’s rh drops a fair bit, so you can achieve lower.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Yes in sadexpunks case.

    I was referring to the ppv case. If your constantly pumping in air from outside pushing out your nice warm lo humidity air…..

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    well….. i might as well sort the kitchen ducting out whilst the bathroom experiments go on…

    looking at the photo of our kitchen below, you can see i have the 120mm round ducting coming up from the fan, and itll want to end in the 110mm x 55mm oblong ducting in the wall. all seems simple enough, a quick look on screwfix and toolstation show all the right parts, reducers, 90 degree elbows etc, so just one question please.
    kitchen

    is there any benefit at all to which elbow i have?

    round to oblong

    or

    oblong to oblong

    cant see that there would be, much of a muchness, what do you think? its just different joins in different places, with same end result yes?

    EDIT: looking back at the post, for some reason the top one looks obviously better. maybe a smoother bend of the air to travel?

    neilnevill
    Member

    It’ll make little difference, both will work fine

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    seem to have a problem with the fan, just wondering if anyone here can pinpoint the issue….

    if you remember, ive bought and installed this
    fastlec fan.

    as mentioned before, its noisy, but seemes to be effective. just lately tho its hardly ever coming on, and no, its not cos theres less moisture.

    before whilst bathing or showering itd be on every time the mirror started steaming up, these days we can get really steamy in there and still no fan.

    ive moved the ‘moisture-meter’ in there to check readings. im pretty sure i set the fan at 60%, and that seemed to tally with the meter reading. ive now moved the meter into the bathroom for a more accurate reading and it can get up to 95% and no fan.
    yet earlier, it came on at 80ish. its hit and miss.

    anyone hazard a guess as to what the issue is? common sense tells me it cant be anything like a blockage, as that comes after the fans on. for some reason the fan just doesnt seem to know what the moisture is, or if it does, something stops it from kicking in.

    any ideas?

    ta

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