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  • concept 2 rowing advice please.
  • dannymite1981
    Free Member

    Hi,I have just started rowing down at my local gym and would like to know how I am doing.I do 5km around three times a week inbetween 20 and 21 minutes,I have the drag factor on 10 which is max.I’m not sure if I should have it set on ten to be honest but as I have only been doing rowing for three weeks I don’t know much about it.I am 5,8 in height and weigh around 72kg.if you have any tips to improve my time it’s much appreciated.cheers

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    It’s all about form. Plenty of videos on YouTube to show you how it’s done. It’s be ideal if you get get another human to stand and watch you though to correct anything you might be doing incorrectly. Try not to get into bad habits early – they’re a bastard to get out of (speaking as a notorious bum shuffler (yes, I know) who could never get out of the habit).

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    You can injury yourself if you have bad form on one of those, so be careful.

    Something about not taking up the catch immediately because it isn’t there on the concept so you can jolt yourself. Start the pull off with the legs, which is what you are supposed to do anyway.

    I tried it and had a personal trainer guiding me, but ended up with piriformis syndrome, which was probably down to my boney ass, so I gave up.

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    Markie
    Free Member

    The Concept 2 site has a huge amount of useful information, including lots on technique as well as training guides for different aims, at

    http://concept2.co.uk/training/

    Otherwise, there’s always youtube…

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-z9lkn3W_M[/video]

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Famous vid that one. 🙂

    jimmy
    Full Member

    Also don’t be tempted to whack the resistance to 10 – you need to get the drag factor (google how-to on this as it’s different dependant on machine) which it will display as you row. ‘Normal’ drag is 140, which is usually 4 – 6 on the resistance scale and represents rowing on water supposedly. It goes higher as machines lose / gain drag through their life and need cleaned and calibrated regularly – your gym might or might not do this.

    I used to aim for sub-20 mins for a 5k and quickest was ~19.05, guys in the gym were around 18 mins. It was so painful I couldn’t bring myself to keep doing it.

    dannymite1981
    Free Member

    Thanks for the advice,just going to check out some vids on youtube now.

    ps44
    Free Member

    Advice ? Step away from the rowing machine.

    mikey.b
    Free Member

    Definitely knock it down to 6 if your are rowing at 10 you are going to have very poor technique. Try and keep your spm (strokes per minute) to less than 24 ( do a slight pause at end of stroke to help with this) aim for a 2:00 – 2:10 pace.

    This will help you improve technique and you times will drop 😀

    Even better if you can do this at 18 spm on 4

    antigee
    Full Member

    the most popular approach in my old gym was for two huge guys to rock up and blast away at about 40strokes/minute for 2 minutes get very red and then go and chat whilst watching tv and presumably recovering

    one tip i was given that really seemed to work is to keep your elbows in – if you use the powermeter mode you can see the difference also a good way of trying to match leg and arm contribution – aim to keep the power output “flat” through the range and over the distance

    Marmoset
    Free Member

    No need to have the resistance set on 10 for a good workout, I’m your weight and used to go over a piece on 6-7. Any heavier and it just feels like a flogging, if you’re not a heavyweight why simulate pulling a big body down the river!

    The biggest tip I can offer is always keep pressure on your toes/balls of your feet – do this all the way into the catch, with your body already having leant over at the finish, and then as soon as you slow down on the slide at the catch, push on the toes and you have an instant connection with no jerking the shoulders. This alone takes a good few seconds of your split times.

    Introdcde your arms and shoulders just as your legs are straightening and keep the handle moving all the way to the finish in one smooth motion 🙂

    Repeat another 500 odd times and you’re done!

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    I find using the power curve helps to improve technique.

    Can’t advise on the setting ‘cos I’m a lightweight and set my best times on 10 with 26 strokes/minute, so set it to whatever you feel comfortable with.

    pjm84
    Free Member

    I’m a super heavy weight at 106kg.

    I use an 135 drag factor which is around 3 to 4 on a machine in good condition. I find this the most “realistic” to rowing on the water. Some may not agree.

    Most 5k pieces are UT2 workouts at a sub 20spm stoke rate.

    26spm would be a flat out test for me and I’ve only done one of these 10 years or so ago when I was in my mid 30s and it hurt a lot.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    2k is the truth test though.

    I don’t miss them.

    clubber
    Free Member

    these should help.

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tell-me-aboutrowing-machines

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anybody-use-a-rowing-machine

    FWIW, you’re a ‘lightweight’ in rowing terms to use that for any comparison.

    The international lwt guys will be doing low 16s for 5k IIRC. Not on setting 10, mind 🙂

    Non-international lwts should be aiming for sub 18 mins I reckon if they’re good (and that includes technique)

    seadog101
    Full Member

    OK folks, set me right, am I doing something wrong…

    75kg, 10k around 39:30, damper at 5~6, but my SPM is ~33 😕 . If I let my SPM get lower I find that I get tired much quicker, whatever the damper setting. That then makes my technique fall apart and things start to hurt.

    Shorter distances pretty much the same, with my PB’s 2K 7:40, 5k 19:30.

    Should I really try to get that SPM down? Seems much higher than what most are suggesting.

    clubber
    Free Member

    Can’t advise on the setting ‘cos I’m a lightweight and set my best times on 10 with 26 strokes/minute, so set it to whatever you feel comfortable with.

    You’re no lightweight 😉 Proper lightweights would be on around 4-5 @ 32-34 s/min

    clubber
    Free Member

    Technique, seadog. You’re almost taking very short effective strokes but moving around a lot without actually moving the handle.

    For 10k as an aerobic effort a rower with good technque would be unlikely to rate more than 24.

    clubber
    Free Member

    If you’re willing, take some video and post us a link 🙂 I’m sure there are plenty of ex-rowers here who’ll be happy to ‘help’.

    Or video yourself and compare to the C2 videos – what you think you’re doing is almost certainly very little like what you’re actually doing (as most rowers will be able to testify to…)

    monkfish
    Free Member

    Seadog I had the same problem I was always stroking at circa 32spm for the 10k and just burning out too quickly to ever get under 40 minutes. Spend a bit of time on the C2 UK forum and there should be enough to keep you busy for a while.

    I wouldn’t want to be doing a 10k any faster than 25spm. A good session would be to row for 30 minutes at a 20spm and see how you get on.

    clubber
    Free Member

    Quick technique check – undo the straps. If you can’t row with your feet out then you’re doing it wrong…

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Quick technique check – undo the straps. If you can’t row with your feet out then you’re doing it wrong…

    Now, now. That’s not fair on someone starting out. 😆

    clubber
    Free Member

    Best time to start I reckon, before bad habits set in

    seadog101
    Full Member

    Nope, I’ve tried. SPM<30 = long and tortuous strokes that hurt too much.

    No straps means I have to use the force against the handle to stop me from flying off the back of the machine!

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Is there really a “right” way?

    I’ve sort of plateaued at 180W over thirty minutes on setting 10 and a stroke rate of about 25-26. Any faster sends my heart rate through the roof, and a lower setting means I have to ping back and forth like a tennis ball to keep the same power output.

    clubber
    Free Member

    No straps means I have to use the force against the handle to stop me from flying off the back of the machine!

    Exactly right. Think about it. If your feet are coming away from the footplate then the boat would be moving you, not the other way around. If you’re losing connection with your feet then you may as well stop the stroke there as you’re no longer doing any useful work on that stroke.

    Get some video and I can give you some pointers.

    Is there really a “right” way?

    Well, there are variations but they’re similar. If you’re talking about getting the best score then there are definitely techniques that work better than others. Long, accelerated strokes are much more efficient than short, unconnected ones.

    seadog101
    Full Member

    No straps means I have to use the force against the handle to stop me from flying off the back of the machine!
    Exactly right. Think about it. If your feet are coming away from the footplate then the boat would be moving you, not the other way around. If you’re losing connection with your feet then you may as well stop the stroke there as you’re no longer doing any useful work on that stroke.

    Get some video and I can give you some pointers.

    Hmm, I see the point, but here’s where I see the difference, I’m not on a boat. On a C2 my feet are stationery, on a boat they are moving and the oar blade should be stationery. So the technique will be different. No? Surely on a boat the inertia of pulling oneself back towards the catch is pulling the boat forwards….

    Oh lordy have I started a physics based debate…?

    Markie
    Free Member

    Oh lordy have I started a physics based debate…?

    So, imagine the river is a conveyor belt and the boat is a plane…

    captain_bastard
    Free Member

    on the resistance thing – setting it to 10 is the ‘macho’ thing to do, but contry to popular belief, it doesn’t mean your tougher by setting it to the max, (loads of testosterone in the gym, so people think that way)

    best way to explain i’ve come across is to imagine 2 boats – set it to number 10, and your rowing a big heavy fishing boat, it takes a hard few efforts to get it moving, but once it is, it easy to keep the momentum

    set it to 3-4 (normally around 130), and your rowing a light weight racing boat, very light and low drag BUT it slows very quickly so you have to keep the effort in (watch the olympics and you see the boats doing this)

    my advice is have a play around to get a feel – but would recommend 130-135 resistance for any longer distances, this will give you the best return on your fitness (40min 10k is a good workout)

    TooTall
    Free Member

    So the technique will be different. No?

    No. Those rowing machines are used by rowers for dry land training for a reason. I row like clubber says – longer and slower but with the power all the way through from the legs and up. When regular training, I had a much slower stroke rate than most but was developing far more power and ‘speed’. Technique is so much on those machines.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Technique is so much on those machines.

    +1

    Also, it’s worth remembering that clubber is advising you to try it without the straps because you shouldn’t be using the straps as a brake to stop you going off the back of the machine. You should be using your core lots to keep a nice nice ratio (and off we go again on to something else) of recovery time on the slide to time doing your stroke (sorry, that can probably be explained better…I think I’ve blanked it from memory for some reason or other).

    However, if you’re using the machine purely for exercise and won’t be taking your technique out on the water, then while technique is always king, there are a few nuances that you’ll hear from rowers that (IMO) you really don’t need to worry about.

    clubber
    Free Member

    True enough DD though I also would say that ‘correct’ water technique will usually be better for your back and help avoid injury.

    set it to 3-4 (normally around 130), and your rowing a light weight racing boat, very light and low drag BUT it slows very quickly so you have to keep the effort in (watch the olympics and you see the boats doing this)

    Not quite – Stick a t shirt over the whole fan unit (in effect it’s like a setting zero) and the fan barely slows down so you’re then rowing a boat that’s very fast and light and barely slows down between strokes but that you need to move the handle very fast in order to actually connect to the water, let alone accelerate the boat. That again is technique.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    True enough DD though I also would say that ‘correct’ water technique will usually be better for your back and help avoid injury.

    Yep, on reflection, you make a very good point there. 🙂

    seadog101
    Full Member

    Clubber – I’ll try and get a video done, can’t promise as I’m away at work (at sea) on a slow connection and uploading anything bigger than a flea fart is tricky.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Right, well, thanks to Clubber I spent ages watching the technique videos on the Concept 2 website, knocked the setting down to four, and managed to shave 50 seconds off my 7k.

    Which is good. But it’s much harder than just yanking on the handle and is going to take some serious practice to get it smooth, as I think I’ve conditioned my body the wrong way and it all feels a bit uncoordinated at the moment. Which to be honest is me in general. 🙂

    Thanks…

    clubber
    Free Member

    Glad to hear that – 50s is really quite a good improvement.

    But it’s much harder than just yanking on the handle

    Pretty much any rower who’s spent years trying to sort out a point of technique that has become ingrained could tell you that 😀

    Bent outside arm was mine. GRRR. Finally sorted it and then stopped rowing. 10 years that took!

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