Hey folks,

So i commute a few days a week on my cannondale Topstone (drop bar gravel bike). Its just under 14 miles each way and mostly flat, on cycle paths or quiet roads. it takes me around 55 mins.

I very much enjoy it, although i am getting somewhat tired of being on a drop bar bike. I mix my time between riding on the hoods and riding on the drops. But neither offers the comfort or ergonomics i desire. I have put a shorter stem on the bring me into a slightly more upright position.

Therefore i have been thinking about a similar sort of bike, but with flat bars. (think along the lines of a Specialized Diverge Evo or something pure commuter like a Specialized Sirrus or equivalent from any other brand).

My question is…. will there be much of a speed difference when riding more upright on a flat bar biked compared to the slightly more aero position of the hoods or drops?

I would assume, all other things being equal, wind resistance will be the only factor… but im not sure how much difference this will make. The bike, as my current one does, will also have twin panniers on the back, so already quite brick like.

Idea’s, thoughts, feedback welcomed below!

Yes. Riding in the drops is much more efficient than on the hoods to the tune of 3-4kph at least. Compared to a flat bar, I don’t know, but would assume since you’re increasing your frontal area by around 20-25%, that the drag will be similar and increasing with speed.

The real question might be – for how long are you actually comfortable riding in the drops? I can do about 20 mins before my back and balls start to become uncomfortable. If it’s that or less, you’re likely to change your time by only a few minutes.

Drops are very useful for headwinds.

EDIT – my commute is around 28km each way and takes between 45 and 55minutes dependent on weather, traffic, time of day, bike, etc.

I had a Giant Rapid – basically a hybrid/flat bar version of the Defy I think.

It was really fast – not much slower than my road bike – but did have a different vibe which I thought was better for riding in traffic.

If you can live with rim brakes, one of them in good nick would be a smart secondhand buy.

You say mostly flat, but roughly how much elevation gain overall and what are the hardest incline stats like?

Factors including…
How high your head is
How stretched out you are
How wide the grips are compared to hoods/drops
The weight difference between the bikes
How wide the tyres (esepcially front) are compared to the wheel outer rim wall
etc.

could easily add ~10mins to the journey.

Marmite opinions on company, I use them lots but never bought a bike from them, but https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/YBOOWHGX/on-one-whippet-sram-gx-carbon-fork-mountain-bike#YBOOWHGX-LRG-BLK for £1k isn’t bad at all (but maybe limited by gearing to turn into a speed commute weapon).

I commute on a Voodoo Marasa, only ~4.2 miles in with 125 feet climbing and it typically takes ~17mins at z2 sort of pace on 35/40mm Supremes. In a favourable tailwind with friendly traffic lights and railway crossing barrier up, my best is ~13.5mins. I’d guess I could do it in ~10-11mins on the road bike with nice wind/lights/barrier.

I bought a pinnacle neon for commuting, out of curiosity I put some 28c tyres on it and compared it to my Giant defy. Similar effort, similar conditions and the Giant defy was 21 minutes for the 7 miles to work, the Pinnacle around 24 minutes.

These days I have some schwalbe ones on and take the scenic route avoiding any roads as im sick of risking my life everyday just to go to work!

I very much enjoy it, although i am getting somewhat tired of being on a drop bar bike.

Is there any reason that you can’t use the top of the bar? I spent approx 5 miles of this morning’s 9.5 mile commute on the top of my drop-bar, only occasionally going to the hoods to pass people safely.

Yes. Riding in the drops is much more efficient than on the hoods to the tune of 3-4kph at least.

If you assume the same low profile on the hoods as what you’d ride with on the drops, I think it’s been shown to be marginally more efficient on the hoods. It would be especially true on a wide-bar gravel bike with flared drops.

The difference on a flat bar bike is that it becomes genuinely difficult to assume that position without a lot of discomfort. A better comparison is riding on the tops, not using the hoods or drops. Try it for a day…

As mentioned though, there’s just as many other variables if changing bikes.

i can lend you my hybrid for a few weeks to test mate,. It’s basic but will give you an idea.

10sp with a 42T ring and 11/36. Guide Rs, Raleight Cadent.

If you assume the same low profile on the hoods as what you’d ride with on the drops, I think it’s been shown to be marginally more efficient on the hoods. It would be especially true on a wide-bar gravel bike with flared drops.

But, you don’t really, do you? Your hands drop for the same horizontal length, so the hypotenuse is longer, so you’re both more stretched out and lower, so a better aero profile. My evidence is admittedly anecdotal, but it’s the same route, on the same bike, with similar conditions at ~the same power. In the drops, I can maintain the same speed for less required power. Not much less power, but definitely less. It’s no less painful, in fact it’s usually worse, but it’s less tiring over distance.

I can keep my average speed over 36kph on a 30 minute segment if I spend a decent amount of time in the drops. I can barely manage 30mins at 36kph if I use the hoods and the tops.

@daffy – to be fair, there is only one or two sections that i get on the drops, as i know there arent any junctions etc to navigate, so i can get my head down and pedal. Assuming no headwind, i average around 29-30kph for this. That section is only about 2.5 miles long. So not even 10 minutes.

This analysis makes me realise i hardly use the drops, i am mainly on the hoods.

@chakaping – thats good to know. I have only done a bit of window shopping currently, but if it proves to be viable then a second hand bike would make most sense.

@n0b0dy0ftheg0at – proper flat, 190ft of elevation. 10 mins additional travel time wouldnt be preferable, but a couple of minutes would be ok. maybe an experiment of an entire ride without using the drops could give an indication of any time saved or lost?

@wors – interesting, cheers for the feedback.

@IdleJon – using the top of the bar feels very cramped and oddly not very natural. Maybe something i need to persevere with?

@butcher – does sound like i need to experiment with the flat part of the bar a bit more.

@weeksy – cheers for the offer! if i get to that point of trying something different i will give you a shout!

I mix my time between riding on the hoods and riding on the drops. But neither offers the comfort or ergonomics i desire.

Roadies the world over ride drop bars for a reason. Honestly, the idea of binning a bike simply because the bars aren’t comfortable seems bonkers!

Drop bars have loads of variables. Of course stem length and height, but the rotation of the bars and the position of the hoods on the curve of the bars are huge factors. Then drop bars vary in shape enormously – you can get them with deeper drops, differently angled drops, different widths of course, and different extension from the tops to the curve.

But it is worth persevering because a comfy drop bar bike is definitely the best way to ride road and ‘gravel’.

I much prefer drop bar bikes for comfort on longer rides. Air resistance notwithstanding, you can vary your position so much. If you get backache, or your palms hurt or whatever, just move onto the tops/drops/hoods for a bit.

It seems like you just don’t have a good position on that bike. Maybe a bike fit would be a better thing to do?

@superficial – that might be the key to success. When i bought the bike i did it over email/online. The shop did recommend a size small, but me knowing better i went with a medium. Being so stretched out was the reason i put a shorter stem on, which has helped…. but i still feel more comfy on my other bikes, which are flat bar.

I only skimmed the posts.

I would say that the shape of your bars has negligible effect on your speed. You need to consider the position you are riding in.

You need to be comfortable for the distance.

You need to be able to put out power effectively (it’s not constant, amongst TT riders there is a balance between power output and position).

You need to be aero (low frontal area).

Now I’d go for comfort commuting above most because who wants to get to work early 😉

You can probably achieve a decent position on a flat bar bike that lets you ride efficiently in terms of aero and power.

I ride all sorts but my commuting bike is now narrow flat bars. I ended up this way because the brakes were cheaper.

My position isnt a million miles away from my CX bike. Slighter teac to the grips than if I’m on the hoods but slightly wider.

It’s still fast. I can get aero if I bend my elbows. The drops aren’t the most aero position on a road bike in any case. It’s a sort of forearm on the bit behind the hoods.

Wider bars is better for control. Find it easier to hop up and down curbs over pot holes and avoid people who want to kill me.

I really like it for commuting.

But you can achieve good and bad positions on most bikes that fit you. It might not be the bars you need to change as much as the general fit of the bike.

I swapped between flats and drops regularly as I had both.

There was barely any difference for me. Flat bars set up in a similar position.

When I commuted in London, the flat bar was actually 1.5mph faster. I stuck my strava stats into veloviwer which average out over a 1000 miles of riding for each.

Even on flat open ground, there wasn’t much difference.

I agree that flat bars are better for urban riding as you are more upright and can look around more easily. But commuting isn’t always urban riding of course. If you have some ground to cover on open roads then drops can be better if you have them set up that you can take advantage. There’s no point in slamming them so that the hoods are low and the drops are too low to get into comfortably. I got faster when I raised the bars on my road bike because it meant I could stay in the drops most of the time and whilst the bars were higher my body wasn’t.

When I used to commute a similar type of offroadish route on my Specialized Langster (back in the day before gravel bikes were a thing) I switched out the long stem and drop bars for a 75mm stem and 730 Hussefelt bars (25mm rise I think) and it made it way more fun as you could treat it almost like an mini MTB by drifting around corners, bunny hop, etc. it also made it a million times more comfortable but that could have just been the horrible chrome track bars on it.

IME without traffic, drop bars are definitely faster- or, more importantly, lower effort for the same speed, flat bars can just feel like a drag sometimes especially in the wind.

Add traffic in and the better visibility etc levels the field a lot imo but it sounds like you don’t have much of that.

None of that matters enough for me to ride a bike I don’t like so I’ve got a nice light flat barred boardman which cost me buttons- bonus is it’s all old mtb standards so I could build a far better bike than I could have with modern road standards.

But, you don’t really, do you? Your hands drop for the same horizontal length, so the hypotenuse is longer, so you’re both more stretched out and lower, so a better aero profile.

Depends on riding style. In a relaxed position, yes. Many riders assume quite an aggressive position on the hoods much of the time, where its easy to get just as low.

Flat bars, it’s difficult to get low without putting yourself at risk or suffering a lot of discomfort. Which will ultimately be slower, but by how much will depend on a number of things.

If you do ride a relaxed position on the road bike there might not be a massive amount in it.

Real-world aero testing: which hand positions are fastest?

but this is commuting, not racing 😉

On my commute home tonight on a long stretch of straight, flat road into a headwind (ex national road, replaced by dual carriageway)..

Drops @ 30.0 to 30.9kmph = 133bpm.

Hoods @ same speed = 152 bpm

Could be worth doing core work and a bike fit to get the bike comfy.

For a lower speed commute you’ll not notice the difference really.

What about a loop bar if some description with bar tape on- should be able to get low on it and plenty of hand positions.

I swapped between flats and drops regularly as I had both.
There was barely any difference for me. Flat bars set up in a similar position.

I also swapped regularly when I rode brakeless fixed as I could literally just swap bars on a whim just before going on a ride. I also found the difference over an hour negligible.

Need to remember the OP is riding at a fairly slow (for flat) average of 14mph so aerodynamics is nowhere near the poster talking about riding in drops at 18-20mph.

The advantages for drops at that speed is not aerodynamics but hand positions. Holding a flat bar hand position for 2 hours riding a day can be less comfortable,

I changed from drops to a 580mm wide carbon flat bar with barends on my Planet X London Road. It’s made bugger all difference to speeds/times except in a howling headwind.

It is nice to have proper disc brakes and be in a more comfortable position though.

Rather than a new bike why don’t you just put a flat bar on your current bike?

These are in the sale at the moment

cheers for all the feedback guys.

It would appear that mother nature is lurking on this thread, as on my ride home yesterday there was a pretty strong head wind. I tried using the flats of my bars…. it didnt last long until i was on the hoods and then on the drops in places.

Therefore i am disregarding the option of a flat bar bike and going to concentrate on a bike fit, whether that be getting my current bike to fit me a bit better or to change frame size. Its not currently uncomfortable per se, i just think it could be more comfy/feel less stretched out in certain positions.

And as Kerley mentions, i cruise to work, rather than beast myself, so whilst i dont want to sacrifice speed, comfort is the name of the game. although my PR is 42 mins, so closer to 17ish MPH

If you fancy a flat bar, and are concerned about drag, maybe something like this? 😉

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-handlebars-stems/deda-tribar-carbon-aero-bar-black/11855716.html

I use a Ritchey Kyote bar with bar ends fitted in the middle so basically a poor man’s Jones bar.

I find this is best for commuting/gravel riding. On the straights I use the bar ends (bar middles?) so my hands are close together and I’m tucked down without being in a full on TT riding position.

If I feel like I need more control I use the ‘flat bar’ position so that I have more control and access to the brakes.

IMO it’s the best of both worlds.

In terms of bike fit, if, as someone mentioned, you get numb nuts when you are on the hoods or drops, you can drop the nose of the saddle a couple of degrees, and that makes a huge difference

That whippet, its basically a flat bar gravel bike right, seems like it could be ridden most places that are not too gnarr? Probably what MTB would have devloped in to if somehow suspension had not been invented – rigid mtb but with better geom, disc brakes, larger wheels and a dropper?

My commuter is an old road bike with a seat post mounted bag (inline with the post for those precious aero gains). Drop bars and sturdy 1x gearing.

TBH for commuting outright speed isn’t actually the main goal (IMO/IME) for me a degree of efficiency and comfort when climbing with a bit of extra luggage is slightly more important, but I can climb fine on the hood/tops, getting in the drops on the flat sections sneaks me a little extra speed/less resistance but arguably isn’t an essential.

I could commute happily enough on a flat barred bike, but drops do sort of make a little more sense.

More important (again IMO) is Gearing, luggage and mudguards equal to the task of year round commuting, irrespective of the route/surface)…

whether that be getting my current bike to fit me a bit better or to change frame size.

Go into a bike shop (that does decent road stuff) and ask them to show you their selection of drop bars and see the differences in shape.

In terms of bike fit, if, as someone mentioned, you get numb nuts when you are on the hoods or drops, you can drop the nose of the saddle a couple of degrees, and that makes a huge difference

Yeah that is a very important variable even if you aren’t getting numb nuts (assuming you. have nuts). If the saddle forces your pelvis to rotate backwards it makes it harder to reach down for the drops – conversely if it’s too far forward you end up with too much weight on your arms. If your bike is on the long side, it probably needs to be rotated forward a bit.

@molgrips – i certainly do have the mentioned nuts. They dont go numb, but i do suffer from another issue, as documented in this thread….

(my) Embarrassing Bodies – Bikes & Bladder Control

Sounds like a bike fit and adjusting saddle angle is something i need to look into.

Went from a Saracen Levarg FB (flat bar) on 650b 47? gravelking sk’s to a Boardman ADV 8.9E on
Vittoria Terreno Zero 700 x 38mm
the boardman is 5-6kg heavier obviosuly being an ebike, the wheelset is heavier for sure than what i’d put on the Saracen, the tyres are slick but much thicker than the gravelkings.
I’m only a few weeks in, and hand position/comfort isnt right yet, ill be swapping to wider, fancier gravel bars with more flare.
that aside
The drop bar is much faster expecially down hill, even on the hoods, on the flat its probably only about 1mph quicker it seems, but throw any sort of head wind in and it;s a game changer being able to get down just a bit lower.

Saracen is for sale if flat bar curious 😀

Flat bar with some mini TT bars?

Google touring handlebars. There are all sort of weird options out there. Most, it think (?) are compatable with flat bar brake setups rather than drop bar brifters.

IT can be fun to play around. Planet X often have cheap options.

Something like the geoff or inboard mounted bar “ends”?

. I mix my time between riding on the hoods and riding on the drops. But neither offers the comfort or ergonomics i desire

Then something is wrong and it likely not the fault of the bars. Saddle position? Saddle tilt? The bike is too big?