monkeyboyjc

but if your RLJ’ing causes an acciddent – for which you’d be at fault – the car / lorry / bus driver would also be at fault (in the eyes of the law) and have a possecution.

What would they be prosecuted for? They certainly would not be at fault unless they had broken the traffic laws / highway code

Monday evening this week.

Went out for a road ride, heading towards Stackstead and Bacup towards Lee Quarry there are a series of fairly tight S-bends with double-white lines down the centre of the road. The lane width is actually easily wide enough for a vehicle to safely pass a single cyclist, especially as the S-bends force the vehicles to drive relatively slowly.
I hit the S-bends and found a line of traffic crawling along, obviously backed up from something. I came around the corner to see two mtb’ers side-by-side merrily chatting away and cycling at no more than 10mph (i know because i was behind them and looked at my speedo/computer). The cars behind couldn’t get past because of the double white lines and oncoming traffic, yet with a little consideration they could have moved into single file and the traffic would have flowed freely with not impediment to themselves.

I managed to overtake, by signalling my intent to the driver behind me then accelerating past them, the cars couldn’t obviously – at least til the S-bends finished.

Now, before you all start, i’m not a motorist – i don’t drive and never have. I commute every day by bike and have been doing for all my working life. I see enough idiocy and needless aggression from motorists every day, but these two cyclists were either doing it deliberately “because they can” or they were blithely unaware of their surroundings.
No need for it, it is a slow road at that point so they were not ‘riding defensively’ they were just being rude/discourteous/ignorant to other road users.

@muddydwarf

You’ve not got the hang of this. drivers are supposed to give room, cross lanes and be generally sensitive to cyclists. But as it’s not “illegal” the favour doesn’t have to be returned.

I like to learn something new every day 😀

Muddy unless the road is very wide ie two cars wide each way then there is no difference to overtaking one or two bikes

You are not driving in accordance with the highway code if you sqeeze past inside the white lines

Oh don’t get me wrong, i’m all for drivers being made aware that their innattention and/or dangerous driving can be lethal to cyclists and that they should also be made aware that cyclists have every legal right to be on the road.
I just happen to believe that with rights come responsibilities, and that we should all make allowances for each other in order to make things easier for each other.

So the cyclist has to be put at risk to let teh car driver past?

TJ,

the road in question is quite wide, and i ride it regularly. I’ve been passed on there lots of times quite safely and with the vehicle still inside the white lines. It’s possible and practical, just not when people are riding two-up.
I’m all for doing that when appropriate – fast, straight roads, dual-carriageway etc. but on that section of road it was pointless, annoying and (i suspect) done deliberately to pee people off.

so the road is two cars wide teach way then? In which case you can overtake two bikes side by side.

No TJ,
the cyclists should ‘sometimes’ understand that not riding two-up (especially when on slow moving mtb’s) is a better proposition at that particular point. It served no purpose other than to say “i can do this”.

could you overtake a car then without going over the white line? If not there is not enough room to overtake a bike safely one abreast or two. See the bit from the highway code above

TJ I know the road and it is plenty wide enough to let cars past when you are single file …just shows the dangers of letting MTB ers loose on the road near a trail centre IMHO. You could easily place a siglebike wide enough out say PP [ primary position] and them not get past legally. I would pull in a bit personally to let them past.
I learnt you cant teach gwj72 anything as he can selectively filter all information to just re affirm his view.

There is something missing from your passing bikes mathematical equation.
The distance between the two bikes! Think about it…. Makes a **** nonsense of your statement that it’s as easy to pass 2 as 1 when they are riding 6 feet apart rather than 2 doesn’t it? As does the width of the road and the car and for that matter how steady the cyclists are riding (I give more room to “swervers”).

It’s just not all black and white like you would like it to be. Sorry.

Once more,

Each lane on that road can easily and safely accomodate a vehicle and a cyclist side-by-side with enough room that should the cyclist extend their arm they would not touch the vehicle – ok?

Add in the width of another cyclist and there is not enough room for everyone – ok?

Just because the cyclists are allowed to ride two-up (although the HC does state that there are occasions when it is innapropriate) does not mean that particular section of road is the right one to do it on.

Conversely, had they been on road bikes and moving quicker (another 10mph say) they would have been fine, as they would then have been moving somewhere near the vehicular traffic speed.

The combination of the road, riding two-up and riding very slow caused a needless traffic snarl up when a little consideration would have allowed everyone to proceed peacefully.

TJ – you don’t live in the real world do you. A REAL cyclist who actually knows the road (unlike you) has been happily past whilst riding single file countless times and feels safe in the situation. What’s your problem?

BTW – I don’t agree with your understanding of that particular rule/guidance. I would say that it implies that you should leave the same amount of space between your vehicle and the cyclist as you would between your vehicle and another motor vehicle – i.e. 2 or 3 feet. A courteous rider would ride close enough to the kerb in this situation so that the car could pass within the line whist maintaining that safe distance. I am more than happy with that amount of space whilst riding – are you not?

Could I recommend you might consider a move to Sark?

TJ I know the road and it is plenty wide enough to let cars past when you are single file …just shows the dangers of letting MTB ers loose on the road near a trail centre IMHO. You could easily place a siglebike wide enough out say PP [ primary position] and them not get past legally. I would pull in a bit personally to let them past.
I learnt you cant teach gwj72 anything as he can selectively filter all information to just re affirm his view.

I must get these selective filters looked at.. 🙂

MDwarf you are correct but when you experience this you still need to respect them and ONLY overtake when/if it is safe to do so as per the Highway code. If you do it and clip them hot them it will be your fault especially where there is no overtaking. slow moving road users can annoy but you cannot get wound up and do something daft to get past them and think it is their fault.

TandemJeremy – Member

could you overtake a car then without going over the white line? If not there is not enough room to overtake a bike safely one abreast or two. See the bit from the highway code above

Do you interpret that rule to mean ‘overtake a bike as if it were as wide as a car’ ?

I must get these selective filters looked at..

i think you prefer the bliss of ignorance tbh 😉

JY – i don’t drive, so i wouldn’t be passing them anyway!

I did pass them on my road bike but there was plenty of room for me to do that, i was at least 4/5 ft from the outside rider as i passed him. Knew i was there as well.

2 or 3 feet clearance between a cycle and a passing car is not enough – nor is it enough when passing another car 🙄

You need to look at the other bits about passing vulnerable road users.

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

There is something missing from your passing bikes mathematical equation.
The distance between the two bikes! Think about it…. Makes a **** nonsense of your statement that it’s as easy to pass 2 as 1 when they are riding 6 feet apart rather than 2 doesn’t it?

No = because the correct road position for a single cyclist is further out from the kerb than the inside cyclist when riding two abreast

213
Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

Just because you are happy to ride in the gutter adn let cars squeeze past unsafely does not mean we all should.

I do let cars past when there is room but I contriol it – not them

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists

We are not so called cyclists, we are cyclists. Just not militants clutching a rules book. I suspect I’ve done 5 times the road miles you will ever do. Get over yourself.

Convert – I doubt that. I have been cycling for 40 years and don’t own a car.

Just because you cycle a lot does not mean you know it all. Te3h very fact you are prepared to go in the gutter and think a 2 ft clearance is sufficient shows your lack of knowledge

MD I know you have no car as i read your original post sorry for being unclear in my reply.

2 or 3 feet clearance between a cycle and a passing car is not enough – nor is it enough when passing another car

how far do you want then between the cars as i suspect this will just stop ovetaking ..how close is the vehicle coming in the opposite lane to you when you are in a car?

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

I cannot believe someone who has not ridden a road is telling two of us who have how best to ride it. As we both said we could take up a position to stop them overtaking us but we feel it is safe to let them ON THAT STRETCH OF ROAD so we take up a position that allows them to overtake us with what we consider enough room. Is this ok with you?

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

Drama queen. Who’s pushing anyone into the gutter? Tssh.

No = because the correct road position for a single cyclist is further out from the kerb than the inside cyclist when riding two abreast

Oh I get it. So you just basically take as much of the road up as you can? If your short on numbers to really snarl things up – either move out or consider carrying some step ladders across your shoulders.

This is utter comedy. Are you the paramilitary wing of the CTC? When your interviewed on TV does an actor do you voice?

I didn’t catch any cars on my bike earlier. But I’m off to tesco now in my 300bhp lump of metal. I hope those pesky “cyclists” are on their toes….

😀

10 years as a general rider – I don’t know 3-4k a year
15 years as a sponsored roadie @ 10K training miles a year
10 years commuting 22miles each way – do the maths
22k miles of logged touring.

You?

Just because you waffle a lot of bollox on the internet a lot does not mean you know it all

😉

Convert – I doubt that. I have been cycling for 40 years and don’t own a car.

Er..I think we guessed that “fact”.

Is this ok with you?

fair enough – but I suspect what you think is safe and what the highway code thinks is safe is a different thing – I would want 70 cm at least from the kerb / road edge and 1m + between the car and me if I was letting them by.

that is amateur mileage convert seriously MTFU

perhaps I can just go in a straight line better than you 😉
It depends on the road i generally ride PP but there a few places where there is no need to do this tbh so I dont and I take up less room to let cars past.

gwj72 – Member

Oh I get it. So you just basically take as much of the road up as you can?

No – I adopt the primary position as suggested by the IAM and others.

Convert- at a guess a hundred thousand miles or two – 50 miles a week average for 40 years-

I know, clearly much still to learn 😉

No – I adopt the primary position as suggested by the IAM and others.

What do they know? Just because they make my cats dinner does not make them an expert on road safety!

You have a cat?
I thought you were a steely eyed dealer of death 😀
You must now redeem yourself by purchasing the meanest dog available pronto!

PP is what I use almost all the time but there are times when all it does it anger other road users.
Karma …. be nice to cars and they may be nicer to us all.

You have a cat?
I thought you were a steely eyed dealer of death
You must now redeem yourself by purchasing the meanest dog available pronto!

I’ve got a cat and kitten, a cockerel, 4 hens and 2 ‘ickle chicks. A man needs balance in his life 😀

I do let cars past when its safe to do so – but its on my terms not the car drivers.

That was a great little blast to the shop. I came up behind a gentlemen’s cycling club on a perambulate around the villages. Leaving barely room to twiddle a moustache I accelerated into the pack leaving them picking spokes from their beards at the side of the road! It felt good in my tummy that.

So, I’m off out again to Oldham tomorrow. If anyone is thinking of acting like a cyclist in those parts tomorrow, then know this… I am specifically targeting Hi-Vis garments and cycle clips. Anybody seen consulting the highway code after the incident will be reversed over. This is my only warning > |

@OP – You started something now Martin

Can’t believe this thread is so long – its quite obvious that what Martin is refering to is against the Rules
The Rules
Hey, and lets face it, if your not playing The Game, should you even be out there ?

FCN=9

2 or 3 feet clearance between a cycle and a passing car is not enough – nor is it enough when passing another car

I dunno, I’d be happy with that tbh. Maybe I’m judging my distances wrong but I’d say that’s more than you get normally in either form of transport. It’s the people that give you about 6 inches that are the problem. Or those that give you no room at all 👿

Quite often ride two abreast, it’s the easiest way to have a chat whilst cycling. Which is a friendly, fun activity for me 🙂 At some point in the past roads were a pleasant place to be and not simply a way to get from A to B as quickly as possible. Would be good if more people remembered those days…

Sorry, I can’t be bothered in reading every single post…
But, there are two types of people who ride bicycles on the road…

A) Cyclists – People who have some idea of safe riding. They have bikes which are in roadworthy condition, they know where to look, they know how and where to position their bike. Some ride like assholes, but they generally can take care of themselves…

B) Bike owners – These are people who have a bike, so point it in the direction of their destination and start mashing “those angled bits you put your feet on” until they get there. They have no interest in the finer art of bike control or looking after their bike. They often have no helmet, no proper clothing and certainly have no concept of concentrating on their surroundings… Rolling liabilities! I have seen these people ride through red lights without even looking to see if there is anything coming, people riding on flat tyres, forks fitted backwards, bikes with no brakes, over-extended stems and/or seatposts (usually because it’s a kids bike). Morons.
I even saw a guy (wearing black from head to toe) riding in the dark at winter no lights, helmet etc riding with both hands in his jeans pockets (presumably because his bare hands were cold) whilst listening to his ipod or whatever… Total fuc*tard!
The number of times i’ve heard people say “No, brake blocks are too expensive, I won’t bother”
The whole problem with group B is compounded with Cycle To Work Scheme as many are buying bikes only because they are cheap (or atleast they think they will be)…
I have worked in bike shops for 11 years (but not any more), and I can safely say that aforementioned group B need a slap across the back of the head. Should have been wearing a helmet… 🙄