• This topic has 43 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 8 months ago by Drac.
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  • Common, public displays
  • Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    In light of what has been said on this thread about people not liking public displays of remembrance, I was wondering if such feelings aren’t just a bit de rigeur, and if in fact we should actually be embracing such public displays.

    With all the talk of “British Values” we have heard in the last 20 years or so, it seems to me that one way to encourage a sense of pride, warmth, solidarity, etc., is precisely by means of public displays. I think of the sense of community that existed among “Dead Heads” and other concert goers, for example, as they gather to enjoy the performance of a favourite band, is something that could only be engendered by means of such a common experience. What was the original “Live Aid” but a global public act that brought people together with a common sense of hope?

    As for Remembrance Day specifically, is there anything wrong with a whole community coming together to honour those who have given their lives for the sake of something bigger than themselves? I don’t for one minute think that the thread that got me thinking about this doesn’t suggest a very good idea; it’s just that I think there is probably some real value in having people come together for a common observance/display – if only to encourage a greater sense of community.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Member

    If some people want to gather together in remembrance or celebration, thats up to them shirley.

    Is this a specific thread concerning Remembrance Day?

    If so, it could be quite long..

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    As for Remembrance Day specifically, is there anything wrong with a whole community coming together to honour those who have given their lives for the sake of something bigger than themselves?

    No. Not at all. It is very positive.
    But it’s quite a unique culture.
    I personally prefer to take a different approach when I can.
    For the record I attend our event at the memorial in Dunblane, my boys also as they play in the band or attend through the uniformed youth organisations they are in.

    Premier Icon tjagain
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    I take the point about shared emotion and experience at large public gatherings – you get the same thing at big sporting events

    However in recent years in the UK remembrance events seem to me to be more about being seen at them for politicians and political point scoring rather than being true to what they should be

    Having said that I will be working on the 11th and I will do my best to make sure everyone notes it and we hold the minutes silence. anyone any ideas on how to do this without sounding too preachy?

    Premier Icon Drac
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    There seems to be an increase in those making noise about not attending a remembrance parade, the same ones suddenly noticing MPs attend too even though they always have.

    No one actually cares if you do or don’t go, if your poppy is red, white or purple. Do what you want to do.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    seem to me to be more about being seen at them for politicians

    you just can’t tell what they are thinking while they are there though.  It is possible they go because they have to, they might go because they want to, it might be both.  There is probably more of a problem with people attaching the meaning that they want to to these things

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Drac – thisis the sort of thing I mean. I bet you there are attacks on corbyn for some perceived slight this year no matter what he does.

    Another added: “Unbelievable disrespect from Jeremy Corbyn turning up in a scruffy anorak for Remembrance Sunday. Even the hood was inside out. One step up from Michael Foot’s donkey jacket! Can’t he afford a black overcoat? This man wants to lead our Country. I’m not having that.”

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyns-coat-armistice-day-service-cenotaph-218346

    Premier Icon CountZero
    Subscriber

    One step up from Michael Foot’s donkey jacket!

    Except that Foot never wore a ‘donkey jacket’ to the Remembrance Day wreath laying!
    He wore a short wool overcoat that his wife had bought him, at some expense, apparently. Donkey jackets have either a leather or later a vinyl panel across the shoulders.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    That’s actually a great photo. MF wearing a bog-standard poppy. MT wearing an over-the-top bastardisation of one because, as we all know, it’s all about show anyway.

    I heartily recommend Poppy® Watch on Twitter.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Wait what? Wearing jackets and not somber suits isn’t new?

    Well that’s not news.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    As with all aspects of the human condition, mass displays of social cohesion can be both positive and negative.

    The torchlight procession at Lourdes vs the Nuremberg Rallies, as perhaps extreme examples.

    I’m sure both engendered the same feelings of acceptance, togetherness and commonality of purpose?

    Flaperon
    Member

    I thought it would be good to head to the local war memorial last year. Really regretted it, felt like a church service which I found pretty offensive and denigrated the sacrifice made.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    To me this is a tricky area. I think its right for a moment of contemplation and education. ” lest we forget” and I think some public act is good. However the BBC are running a trailer about some commemoration with songs from second rate pop singers. I didn’t grasp the detail of what exactly.

    I would rather a silent montage of devastating scenes to effing leona Lewis singing something.

    The whole poppy thing is the constant source of attempts to hijack it by the jingoistic.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    I thought it would be good to head to the local war memorial last year. Really regretted it, felt like a church service which I found pretty offensive and denigrated the sacrifice made.

    Maybe you should organise your own in future.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Subscriber

    I think I’m pretty at odds with the rest of the U.K. on this one.

    I don’t really know what purpose it serves anymore? It’s been twisted from a ceremony to remember those who gave their lives and to ensure we never make the same mistakes again to a nationalistic congratulatory thing.

    Mostly though I’m sick of sad middle age men all having a circle-jerk about Wars, and the military. They see WW2 as some great triumph, they’re really just a bunch of Walts, they wanted nothing to do with the Military when they were young, but now they’re safely too old and fat to be of any use they can’t get enough of it.

    ‘The War’ ended 70+ years ago, maybe it is time we forgot, because the lesson has been lost and is now more pro-war than anti.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    I think I’m pretty at odds with the rest of the U.K. on this one.

    Or maybe just at odds with those who express an opinion.

    ‘The War’ ended 70+ years ago, maybe it is time we forgot, because the lesson has been lost and is now more pro-war than anti.

    Via Twitter: one ceremony had a band playing Rule Britannia.

    hols2
    Member

    Was expecting a rant about street rappers, much disappointed.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    I thought it would be good to head to the local war memorial last year. Really regretted it, felt like a church service which I found pretty offensive and denigrated the sacrifice made

    They have been like that for 40 years at least around here

    To me this is a tricky area. I think its right for a moment of contemplation and education. ” lest we forget” and I think some public act is good. However the BBC are running a trailer about some commemoration with songs from second rate pop singers. I didn’t grasp the detail of what exactly.

    I would rather a silent montage of devastating scenes to effing leona Lewis singing something.

    The whole poppy thing is the constant source of attempts to hijack it by the jingoistic.

    I share the lack of desire to watch this type of thing and really do question the taste of the TV people who commission this sort of tripe.
    But I’m not sure you can call Leona Lewis “jingoistic”

    Via Twitter: one ceremony had a band playing Rule Britannia.

    I’m sure there were plenty of other bad choices as well, trying to confect outrage from them is a long stretch though. Is there an accepted list of tunes to be badly played by a half frozen brass band?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    But I’m not sure you can call Leona Lewis “jingoistic”

    Not my intention

    She is a second rate warbler who has no business in a solemn remembrance serve and these things sometimes get hijacked

    Flaperon
    Member

    Maybe you should organise your own in future.

    Maybe you should grow up?

    When I lived in South Manchester people simply congregated at the war memorial. No one said anything. We stood in silence until the last post was played.

    If you want a church service, go to church.

    crikey
    Member

    All about Rule 1…

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Well just been and done my public display, there was some words, the last post, some marching and reef laying.

    Respects paid and met up with a friend I’ve not seen in months.

    Not sure if it was too religious or not.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    Not my intention

    She is a second rate warbler who has no business in a solemn remembrance serve and these things sometimes get hijacked

    She is as welcome as anyone at a remembrance service. The singing and choice of song might be up for grabs as not you cup of tea but she has every right to be there.

    The problem with all this is the point that your choice of way of remembrance is up to you. Don’t assume it’s The only way or the right way, it’s just your way.

    Same goes for the poppy the plethora of other poppies starts to narrow what the original basis should be, a simple way of recognising the loss associated with war and by implication starts to narrow the meaning for some and then creates division where there was none.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    The white poppy has been going for a long time as well

    I just do not get why you get pop singers at remembrance. Its totally inappropriate IMO

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    Talking about totally inappropriate but my pedantry just wouldn’t let this lie…

    reef laying

    Coral blimey mate…

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Ooops! 😂

    The white poppy has been going for a long time as well

    Yup after WWI iirc.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    , is there anything wrong with a whole community coming together to honour those who have given their lives for the sake of something bigger than themselves?

    We cycled past several remembrance things this morning, hardly the whole community, just a few scouts / cadets and the Church / OAP brigade. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but equally have no interest whatsoever in taking part.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    Maybe you should grow up?

    I’m not the one whining about being offended, maybe you ought to embrace a bit of tolerance.

    crikey
    Member

    Perhaps the pair of you could have a word with yourselves; not the time, not the day to be acting the goat.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    I’ve attended and watched remembrance services for over 40 years that I can remember. I don’t recall any that made me feel they were in anyway nationalistic or congratulatory, though I’ve seen all sorts of bollocks from people who would like them to be that way. Always focused on sacrifice and loss, and gratitude for what they had to go through.

    Our last vicar was German. Remembrance services were very poignant with her.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    😂

    Daily Mail’s end level boss

    Express in attack Corbyn shocker

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    Corbyn doing exactly what he’s done on the 4 previous Remembrance Sundays.
    Express publishing shit – what a shocker.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    He’s a new jacket though.

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    I was going to include that in my post.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    exactly as I predicted. Its abhorrent to use this for political purposes

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    exactly as I predicted. Its abhorrent to use this for political purposes

    TBF, it’s not beneath the Express to do any number of other abhorrent things to sell papers / adverts.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Its abhorrent to use this for political purposes

    Hardly abhorrent, the dead are still dead and it doesn’t affect the living* in any way whatsoever.

    * obviously the professionally offended will be over the moon at having something else to be offended by….

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    exactly as I predicted. Its abhorrent to use this for political purposes

    Given how shambolic johnson was yesterday you would have thought they would have given it a miss this time.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    exactly as I predicted. Its abhorrent to use this for political purposes

    It’s the standard clickbait format. Don’t really see a massive conspiracy. If people bought left wing tabloids there would have been “Johnson in massive disrespectful outrage as he fails to comb hair” clickbait.

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    footflaps – stop trying to be offensive with dim comments. You know the point which was being made.

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