Coil Conversion for the Pike

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  • Coil Conversion for the Pike
  • legend
    Member

    I take it this is the top-out video you were talking about?

    [video]https://youtu.be/AyIbuqz34ko[/video]

    That does sound properly harsh!

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    It does move through a guide. The photo above is from a coil RS Sektor and the baseplate that is used is the bit that looks like a seal head . CRConceptions photo shows a very similar setup for the baseplate (seal head replacement) – in the bottom photo its the largest plastic part, with the far end of the shaft being the seat for the spring

    The Sektor has a top-out spring on the damper side of the fork.

    legend
    Member

    Converted Sektor, MoCo needs the spring adding same as the Revs I converted

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Yeah, I might wait for the SAR Spring kit or the TF Tuned one.

    Oh, there is this as well

    http://www.fahrrad-fahrwerk.de/awk/

    CRConception look like they offer a modification to the Pikes negative airspring as well, if you click on one of the diagrams of their dampers – it shows a diagram with modified solo air spring curves.

    How hard do you reckon it would be to increase the negative spring size, to offset the extra seal involved with the AWK system?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    There used to be a company in Germany that offered custom spring assays, that looked like they increased the Pikes negative air volume. I cant for the life of me remember their name though.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    There’s the top out spring.

    It looks like they were running the rebound completely open in that video, I think even my current forks will do that if I ran the rebound fully open.

    legend
    Member

    That’s a win! Cleverly hidden too. Looking forward to hearin how you get on

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Coil spring assay on order from the very helpful Richard at CRConception 🙂

    Overpaid on paybal by not selecting euros. Richard refunded me within minutes, slightly losing out a bit on his side – nice bloke.

    legend
    Member

    when do you expect to have it in your hands? Any idea if he do you know if he covers the various different travel options?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Yeah he will quote you for international delivery, not sure who the courier is – but I paid via paypal so it is insured. Not sure on delivery times.

    Based on my dealings with him, I trust him so Im not going to pester what appears to be a very “avalanche suspension” crazy engineer in a shed kind of company 🙂 I mean that in a good way, Richard is very nice.

    legend
    Member

    dirtydog – Member
    Hmmm

    postive or negative “hhmm”? Seems like a cheap upgrade, still going to wait for coil though

    dirtydog
    Member

    postive or negative “hhmm”? Seems like a cheap upgrade, still going to wait for coil though

    Neither really, just came across it, just another option, promises coil like performance 😕

    otsdr
    Member

    It does increase the negative…

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    “Promises coil like performance” why not just get a coil then? More performance (faster reaction times from compression to rebound stage) and none of the hassle.

    Oh and that vorsprung thing won’t do what it says on the tin, it will make the fork more sensitive but unless it is a triple chamber air design like the Manitou IRT, Ohlins forks, air motocross forks or the AWK Pike kit – it won’t give the same midstroke support as a coil.

    If it works with the ARK Pike Dual main chamber system then it might be cool.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Looks like that kit would work with the AWK kit, I’d suggest that if you prefer resale value or lighter weights – go with a combination of that kit with the AWK Lyrik or Pike dual chamber system.

    If you don’t mind extra weight, with the coil – you have three less seals than the above modification, better performance (quicker reaction times, more sensitive and less prone to the spring binding under load – would be a guess) and better reliability.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    These coil conversions look very interesting. Who has a success story?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Coil conversion kit arrived from France yesterday, installed it today.

    Initial impressions:

    * The coil itself is much better finished/made than original rock shox coils of old – everything else is functional.

    * Installation is pretty easy and straight forward, a little bit of common sense is required.

    * It’s much, much more sensitive than a standard Pike now – under normal garage bounces – it feels considerably more sensitive. However the real difference is when you apply a fair amount of torsional loading to the fork whilst compressing it through it’s travel, the solo air spring used to seize up and cause the fork to go very very sticky – this doesn’t at all. I was quite shocked by that. It’s also a noticably more sensitive than my fathers Lyrik RCT3 as well.

    * A quick car park bounce around confirms that I got the exact sag that I asked for of 21 percent (I asked for anything between 20 and 22.5 percent but preferably 21). It feels a lot more lively when hopping around, it doesn’t feel dead because it’s a coil – in fact the fork feels livlier and more playful than before. Resistance to brake dive is improved, not massively but moderately – the fact that the fork is a lot more sensitive will allow me to considerably increase the low speed damping on the FAST damper as well.

    * The fork has only gained 200g :mrgreen: less if I install a stealth maxle. This means it’s about the same weight as a Lyrik, 34mm forks like the Bos and Mattoc and it’s lighter than other 35mm forks like the DVO Diamond. 🙂 Anyone who says that coils carry a massive weight penalty is having a laugh.

    * I put a kink in the low friction plastic wrap that protects the inside of the stanchion, so theres a very slight clicking noise as the coil moves over it. I’ll order another from Richard next week and replace it.

    Overall, I’m very impressed and highly recommend it to anyone who is on the fence.

    Premier Icon riklegge
    Subscriber

    Tom, any further thoughts on the coil conversion?

    legend
    Member

    Anything more to add Tom? TF don’t look like they’re going to be doing anything this month so considering going continental

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Still loving it, further ridings just confirmed what I already think.

    The fork doesn’t pack down, but I suspect that it would be even better with a slight rebound shimstack tune to suit the more linear coil but I can’t actually feel anything wrong with it – but I’m keen to try just to see. So I’ll try that in the new year – the new found sensitivity of the fork has highlighted a few minor niggles in the custom damper tune, I think the first high speed shim could just be a little lighter so when I set the HSC to 10 clicks from fully open instead of 5-7, I get the improved support but with a bit more small bump sesnitivity. I lose a tiny bit of grip in braking bump ridden berms when going full tilt….. it gives me a feeling like the forks going to tuck under, which I never noticed with the airspring when I set HSC to 10 clicks – because the grip wasn’t as good in the first place….even with less clicks. Its kind of like listening to an MP3 at 128kbs vs 320 (something) kbs, the airpsring just kind of muddied the feedback a bit.

    Premier Icon Denis99
    Subscriber

    I have been watching this thread and very interested in making this conversion, but have a few queries.

    My pikes are the 650b version set at 140mm.

    Is it quite simple to convert the forks? And is it possible to reduce the travel (via the spring ordered) to say 130mm?

    I just fancy this conversion to get away from any air spring maintenance really, I weigh 85kgs with my riding gear on, the spring being total rider weight compatible.

    Any help appreciated.

    Premier Icon Neb
    Subscriber

    Are these all the options for coil conversion?

    CRConception
    TF tuned
    SA Racing
    DIY using lyrik bits, everything fits bar the spring

    I read somewhere that someone used a marzocchi 350 ti 160mm spring with the lyrik bits. Whixh meant no cutting. Any idea where would be best to source the bits / spring?

    PS, for a DP pikr

    Premier Icon Denis99
    Subscriber

    After reading and watching this thread, I am about to buy the coil conversion kit.

    Will probably use the existing air set up through the remainder of the winter months, as the fork is working fine.

    Once the spring arrives and the fork needs a service I will make the conversion to the coil set up.

    Looks to be a much easier and less faff set up in terms of usability and maintenance.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    The conversion for the CR Conception kit is a breeze if you can do a lower fork service.

    I could see the DIY spring conversions as being a bit of a headache.

    Once the spring arrives and the fork needs a service I will make the conversion to the coil set up.

    Looks to be a much easier and less faff set up in terms of usability and maintenance.

    Honestly, I’d install it as soon as you get it. Winter is when you will reap the most benefits from the extra traction.

    Is it quite simple to convert the forks? And is it possible to reduce the travel (via the spring ordered) to say 130mm?

    I’m fairly certain CR Conception do a 140mm length spring, but I’m sure if you ask nicely he will cut you one to size. The guy has all the tools and kit at hand to do this.

    I love the kit, I like the midstroke support of air forks and air shocks with lots of tokens – but on enduro bikes I think these progressive setups are too harsh for all day riding and long descents. Progressive setups are great if you’re riding balls out down a 5 minute DH run, I don’t think this is ideal for Enduro though. What the coil spring modification does is give you a nice spportive feel in the first 60 percent of travel, yet on big hits it will use more of it’s travel – you get chassis stability with a bit more square edge comfort and small bump traction.

    Premier Icon Neb
    Subscriber

    I’m thinking of at least waiting until SA Racing get their kit to market, hopefully TF Tuned won’t be far behind. CR Conception sound good to deal with, but I’ve had cracking service from TF in the past and I’m happy to deal with them.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    I’m sure TF tuned would service a Pike with the CR Conception coil in it – there isn’t really anything that could go wrong.

    I’d have bought the kit a year ago had I tried one, but I was on the fence as well – considering the shit I went through with my Pikes I wish I had!

    Premier Icon Neb
    Subscriber

    Was the ordering process with CRC ok? I wasn’t quite sure whether I’d actually end up with what I wanted! Did you need to give any extra details over your weight and model of fork?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    I gave him my riding weight, the rough amount of sag that I would be happy with, the fact that I rode flats (as I know this can affect what spring rate you should run to a small degree and the wheel size and travel of the fork.

    Sure, he doesn’t speak much English but google translate was enough to convey the right information – not only did I get the rough amount of sag that I was looking for, I got the exact right amount of sag that I wanted. Although I can’t say whether you would – all I would say is that he will be as good as anyone else at getting the closest spring rates for you and possibly better as he offers 10 spring rates as opposed to the usual five or six.

    The ordering process was simply a matter of emailing him the details of what I wanted, then paypaling him – the spring turned up four days later.

    Premier Icon Pridds
    Subscriber

    Tom, with the crc kit can you wind any preload in or is the sag only changed with a different Spring?

    Premier Icon Denis99
    Subscriber

    Ordering from CR is made very easy with emailing Richard.

    Very helpful guy, walked me through everything and is supplying a 140mm spring. Basically it looks like they will supply most things to match the customer requirements.

    A few questions back and forth, but always very quick with the responses .

    Looking forward to fitting it now, might very well just fit it once it arrives.

    I felt the same about the tokens, took all of them out, I’m no hero of a downhiller, just want a coil fork of old really.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    No preload adjustment but it would probably be quite easy to retrofit one from an older rock shox fork – or a boxxer?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    You could also probably get some machined or even possibly chop a bottomless token down to increase the preload.

    legend
    Member

    Tom_W1987 – Member

    No preload adjustment but it would probably be quite easy to retrofit one from an older rock shox fork – or a boxxer?

    yeah you would expect 35mm Boxxer preload discs to be an easy option or, at the very most, need a little trim to fit the CRConception top cap and spring.

    Think I need to give TF a call and see if they’ll give an idea of how far away their kit really is. Otherwise I might have to speak some French very soon!

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Tell you what, Ill buy the boxxer top cap and see if I can do it myself. Woulndt be hard to find a machinist to help me out.

    Machining some spacers to adjust preload wouldnt be hard either.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    Why would you want preload adjustment? To raise the ride height?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Yeah, but as you imply – preload isnt that useful as it doesnt alter the spring rate.

    legend
    Member

    As long as a preload spacer sits nicely on top of the spring I wouldn’t be too concerned about the top cap. I changed an old 32mm Boxxer from air to coil and just dremeled off a chunk of the air cap then used a standard preload spacer, worked grand for years

    Premier Icon Neb
    Subscriber

    Legend – If you hear back from TF Tuned can you post the reply? I’m in the same boat, tempted to buy CRC but keen to see what TF have coming out first.

    legend
    Member

    Will do, they’re going to give me a call to discuss dates tomorrow so fingers crossed

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