Apologies if we’ve already done this – I’m surprised if we haven’t (I did search!) – but pleased to see prosecutions happening for close passes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40571699

Dean Littleford, 60, from Birmingham, denied driving without due care and attention in Park Lane West, Tipton, in November.
But he was fined £1,038 and had five points added to his licence by Dudley Magistrates’ Court.

Isn’t that punishment (well, fine) more than you get for killing someone on a bike?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad prosecutions are happening, just wish they were a bit more proportionate in the case of a death….

tomhoward – Member
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad prosecutions are happening, just wish they were a bit more proportionate in the case of a death….

Maybe it’s coming.

Perhaps it just needs one idiot to take out one of those police cyclists. (Not that I wish that on them)

Isn’t that punishment (well, fine) more than you get for killing someone on a bike?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad prosecutions are happening, just wish they were a bit more proportionate in the case of a death….

POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
No, can you find a single case where someone was CONVICTED of causing [cyclists] death by careless/dangerous driving and they got less than that?

its much more useful to have a significant penalty for the many drivers who get lucky and don’t kill someone whilst driving like an idiot than the small number who do. Nobody believes they are going to kill someone in their car today.

Careless driving, £200

The sam boulton case (car dooring, leading to him being knocked into an oncoming van that killed him) passenger got £150, taxi driver responsible for the car got £950 (most of the first page of Google refer to this)

My uncles killer. £600 and 6 points. HGV failed to give way at roundabout.

its much more useful to have a significant penalty for the many drivers who get lucky and don’t kill someone

I agree with this bit, but did you read the link?

The driver only got this penalty because he maintained his innocence. Everyone else got driver awareness courses.

A good result nonetheless though, hopefully a watershed moment.

You can’t comment on legal cases from just newspaper reports. It’s not going to go well.

You can’t comment on legal cases from just newspaper reports. It’s not going to go well.

You might need to elaborate on that statement.

Just speculating, was the driver in this instance fined so heavily because he didn’t admit any wrong doing?

Ahem…

PC Mark Hodson from the Central Motorway Police Group said: “Most offenders watch the footage, accept their driving was below par, and elect for a driver improvement course or an offer of three licence points and £100.

“This was a clear case of a close-pass – the cyclist was nearly forced into the kerb and the actions of the truck driver could easily have caused a very serious collision.

“He maintained his innocence, though, and has now been convicted in court.”

A bit dim of the lorry driver not to admit the offence and take the lesson IMO, wouldn’t a conviction for driving without due care make him unemployable as a professional driver?

Like the close pass, he clearly didn’t think that one through..

mattyfez – Member
Just speculating, was the driver in this instance fined so heavily because he didn’t admit any wrong doing?

Well he would have got 1/3rd off by pleading guilty, and whilst reported as a “fine” I presume it was actually the total of the fine, the prosecution costs (significantly higher by going to trial) and then the victim surcharge.

That sort of mis-reporting for fines makes press reports really hard to compare. Add to that the unknowns of previous convictions, aggravation for type of vehicle etc. and you aren’t comparing apples with apples. And that is without adding in the mix of people quoting different offences such as opening a car door…

No, can you find a single case where someone was CONVICTED of causing [cyclists] death by careless/dangerous driving and they got less than that?

Well, minimum sentencing for those offences mean you can’t just get a fine: there’s a minimum one year ban as well. So it’s hard to equate things.

But there are numerous cases of sentencing for those offences where much lower fines have been applied with minimum driving bans. Fines are not a mandatory element of sentencing so in some cases no fines are applied (often unpaid work is used, sometimes in conjunction with suspended sentences).

However, often there is a decision to charge with offences other than causing death. In some cases (eg where evidence is not compelling) this is more understandable than others. One of the more questionable decisions is that in the case of Keith Wilson who drove into the back of Richard Beer. Wilson had seen Beer, but had decided to try to wipe a fly smear off his window while approaching him, and drove straight into the back of him. Beer was thrown from his bike and suffered a fatal head injury. Wilson wasn’t charged with causing death, only careless driving. The sole reason for this, judging by media reports, appears to have been that Beer had left home without his helmet. Wilson was fined £150 and was allowed to continue driving.

If you browse through the Road Justice site or the Beyond The Kerb Casebook you should be able to find some low-end sentencing (though I keep meaning to add a page listing the sentencing).

wouldn’t a conviction for driving without due care make him unemployable as a professional driver?

LOL

A lorry driver who killed a cyclist near Oval tube station last June has been sentenced to seven years’ imprisonment…

The Streatham Guardian (link is external) reported that during the trial it was disclosed that Putz had previously been disqualified 20 times as well as three convictions for drink driving and three convictions for reckless driving
http://road.cc/content/news/27511-breaking-seven-years-jail-and-lifetime-ban-lorry-driver-who-killed-catriona-patel

Here’s at least one local councillor arguing that it would be terribly unfair to change the licensing conditions to stop taxi drivers driving taxis once they get nine points on their licence:

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/should-criminal-conviction-prevent-people-7941019

Not to mention that taxi licences have been awarded to people with convictions for a variety of other offences inclusions violent and/or sexual assaults.

I’m guessing that the current high demand for delivery van drivers is somewhat tolerant of previous driving offences, too.

I agree 100% (you converted me a while ago). Initiatives such as this – even if most people take the driver awareness course* or the £100 fine – are likely to have far greater an effect on safety than all prosecutions for causing death, no matter how harsh the sentencing. I understand how emotive lenient sentencing for causing death is (I used to think the same – well I still do really, but understand that a harsh sentence doesn’t bring somebody back, and the vast majority of drivers who kill didn’t mean to and live the sentence of their conscience), but it’s not really an effective deterrent.

* do they include cyclist awareness in the courses, or is it the bog standard one you get for speeding, where anecdotally some of the instructors are anti-cyclist?

I often think that the approach shouldn’t focus so much on who has happened to kill someone.

In this case, with him pleading innocence and the potential consequences of his actions, it seems about right.

Obviously where there is a fatality there’s a much higher chance of the matter ending up in court, and some sentences (and charges) are (woefully) inadequate.

Hope this idiot gets similar treatment

@snaps.. Says it all really, bitch with silly sunglasses and full sleeve tattoo.

Add bus.

Makes you wonder how they interview potential bus drivers.

I was thrilled day before yesterday at being run of the road by a tractor when out on my road bike, his trailer hit my shoulder and as I was already on the last 8″ of tarmac I very quickly ended up on the dirt but managed to stay upright (whilst turning the air blue). I can’t understand why the tractor driver wouldn’t run a few inches on the grass (no ditch or camber/slope), I assume he simply didn’t care.

Presumably you have marks from the impact and all tractors have license plates. Could you not report him for leaving the scene of an accident?

Probably should have done, but didn’t, hopefully won’t happen again, but if it does I’ll try to be a bit clearer thinking, but if I’m honest I was a bit shaken up with having something that big more than close to me.