We in Borneo have lived in despair about the situation for sometime now.

I imagine most Brazilians who aren’t involved in the wholesale destruction of their own country are pretty despairing of their situation, encouraged as it is by a despotic maniac running the country.

Sounds good until what that employment centre specialises in is no longer in demand. See ex mining, steel or mill towns.
So many things need doing to tackle this that onlytaxes and legislation will sort out. Human nature means the majority of people will take the easiest and cheapest option without considering the implications.

Although lets remember Greta Thunberg started on her own in August last year, today saw millions world wide join her.

One year and one month apart pic.twitter.com/f2URDOVFm2

— Natalie Wolchover (@nattyover) September 20, 2019

From Frankie Boyle on Twitter,

“That kids have got to take time out of their childhoods to explain climate science to us should be a matter of profound shame”

Are these kids really up for no flights, not getting a car at 18 and no new phones etc. Because no matter how we get there (Govt action or individual action) thats what it all boils down to. The ones i’ve spoken to (including my own) talk a good talk but haven’t quite reconciled themselves to this reality. Easy to protest against ‘the other’.

What amazes me is that Chewkw can start typing coherent sentences on certain subjects.

Personal actions are only a (small) part of this.

Lobbying to get politicians to change the rules of the game is what this is about.

Exactly, which is why getting a movement is so critical

What amazes me is that Chewkw can start typing coherent sentences on certain subjects.

Depends what character they are playing that day. What amazes me is that people still enagage with a known troll.

Are these kids really up for no flights, not getting a car at 18 and no new phones etc. Because no matter how we get there (Govt action or individual action) thats what it all boils down to

You could go to a demo and ask them? Or you could just snipe from the sidelines with the same old rubbish about there being no point that has driven them to this position.

Are these kids really up for no flights, not getting a car at 18 and no new phones etc.

My eldest is 17, never yet taken a flight, doesn’t want to learn to drive or get a car. I’ll disregard your phone comment, it barely manages to escape the “how can they be on benefits and have a phone, I used to carry a 5p piece in my shoe” daily mail reader black hole of anti-debate nonsense.

Correction – she wants an old Fiat, to turn into a greenhouse, because they look ace.

Thought this was an interesting read.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1174957970431496192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1174957970431496192&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsingletrackworld.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Fclimate-strike-moan%2F

Found this thread to be monumentally depressing.I’m not sure I 100% understood his point, but I think he’s arguing that the climate movement is bad because on a linked website on one of the websites involved it states that they want non market solutions.

Realistically I don’t see how this is a bad thing.

He even states:
“In other words, we cannot use market mechanisms, economics or technology to cut carbon emissions. We need trees, not factories.”

Again unless I’m misunderstanding he seems to mean this is a bad thing.

Reducing fossil fuels is going to be really expensive, and therefore bad.

Later he states
“Oh, and pay loads and loads of extra money to poorer countries”

And then:
“In my book, I diagnosed what I called ‘utopian authoritarianism’ – the idea that the only way to save the planet is for people on the left to command others, in the developed and developing world, to live poorer, meaner lives”

Which seems a little contradictory.

If anyone can explain his points to me that would be great.

The comments after aren’t worth the pixels they are rendered on.

Anagallis – as i said, i have spoken to them (and work in the environment/engagement sector). Apart from a very few really clued up youngsters they’ve all cried foul at the flights issue.

Kelvin – your kid sounds positively progressive. And my point on consumerism stands, it unsustainable to carry on buying new stuff.

Anagallis – as i said, i have spoken to them (and work in the environment/engagement sector). Apart from a very few really clued up youngsters they’ve all cried foul at the flights issue.

Of course the they will. They are only kids. They take their technological needs from adults. The fact that they raise climate change at all shows a degree of maturity despite their naivety.

We owe it to the next generation to do what we can to ease the pressure. Our kids will be the cause of problems of their own making. They have to try their best to solve them in a few years time.

Anagallis – as i said, i have spoken to them (and work in the environment/engagement sector). Apart from a very few really clued up youngsters they’ve all cried foul at the flights issue.

You must have spoken to different ones I have spoken to at climate strikes

My eldest is 17, never yet taken a flight, doesn’t want to learn to drive or get a car.

Give it another eighteen months and come back for an update

Give it another eighteen months and come back for an update

Yeah how dare these kids be more ambitious than you!!

What I hope these young people are doing is sending a message to business and governments around the globe that there is a generation coming that will prioritise environmental concerns over everything else in their future purchasing decisions and voting habits. That those wishing to hold power or make profit need to make this the mainstay of their agendas to remain relevant.

But, and for me this is a big but, environmental change will come at a personal cost to us, the average man on the street. I’ll not mince my words – I’m pushing toward 50 years old and before my birth most of what we know now was already known. Most of what has happened since is because ‘we’ the consumer and voter demanded and voted for more. We wanted cheaper and to minimize tax, we wanted freedom of choice, we wanted unlimited global travel. We wanted convenience. We wanted wanted more and all of that now. This is our fault – we in the west put people in power who gave us what we desired and spent our money with firms that did the damage. We chose to be ignorant when the facts we there to be seen. We can’t blame anyone but ourselves. It was us.

If this next generation are serious, and I sincerely hope they are, they need to switch (or at least compliment) their protesting with positive action and personal decision making and sacrifices as they get to an age where they can make meaningful life choices. We’ll know we (they) are winning when airlines and cattle farms around the world go out of business and the market for palm oil (mostly grown to feed the cattle) collapses. We’ll know when the birth rate drops significantly. When political parties gain power on a mandate to increase taxes to pay for climate change measures and introduce legislation to reduce choice. If non of those things happen they will have failed just like we did, waiting with our thumbs up our bums for other people to sort it out for us and not prepared to do our bit, waiting for someone to tell us we ‘must’ change our lifestyles when we could have voluntarily made the first meaningful leaps.

So protest away I say but make that the beginning of a life of positive choices and commitment. They have not yet had the time to show that level of commitment and criticism for them now is unreasonable. In 10 years however….

The only way to make people care about the enviroment is to take their worries away from other things like feeding their families.
Its easy to put the world to rights when you are sitting in an office and pulling in 5k per month. Its harder is you are digging holes and struggling to feed your family.
Ill be crucified for this but people like Trump will do more for the enviroment than a bunch of middle class moaners, He actually identified the people that are struggling and is trying to help them.

He actually identified the people that are struggling and is trying to help them.

Not sure I’d agree. On this specific point those with **** all don’t do a huge amount of environmental damage because they buy/consumer **** all. They use public transport, they don’t fly across the planet for holidays (or business), they buy stuff and use it until it falls apart. The problem are those of us with a bit more than **** all that prioritise our extra spending on selfish aspirations. The American dream if you will.

Nothing wrong with help to people at the bottom of the economic heap (but Trump – please. Anyone who sees ‘Obamacare’ as a bad thing is no friend of the poor) but it’s not really relevant to this issue imo.

Also, solar is difficult where we are, our house is exposed to quite severe winds which routinely rip tiles from the batons.

That really isn’t worth worrying about.
Tiles are, at the most, held by a couple if small nails in one edge – PV/solar panels are held in a bracket that’s screwed down to the joists.
We’ve had a a mini tornado (that snapped pine trees in half and ripped all the branches off a very mature oak) go over our PV panels and they were fine.
You’ll lose the roof before the panels come off.
Don’t go with thermal though, it’s a one trick pony as it only heard water…. PV will do much more.

Sorry… @andypaul, do you think the bigger impact is from people struggling to feed their families, and heat their homes? Not those with plenty and regularly flying off for city breaks, skiing and winter sun? I’m not sure I follow your logic.

While I think individuals can and should make personal changes, we need systemic changes to make a real difference. For this to happen needs political will, and protests like these are part of what focuses political mind.

Climate impact correlates really well with net worth. It’s not the poor doing the damage.

Just checked and my Aldi peanut butter uses sustainable palm oil. Am I forgiven?

Nah, why does it need palm oil anyway 🙂

@csb if they were doing everything you list, what would your response be then? Just assume it’s only the ones you’ve spoken to and continue in your old ways? Or accept the younger generations request for change?

Nah, why does it need palm oil anyway

Indeed. Peanuts need no additional oil. Think of palm as being some shit they’ve put in nuttybutter to con you. Reject it. Just stir your nuttybutter instead.

They should go to Indonesia to protest now.

Indonesia haze causes sky to turn blood red

Sorry… @andypaul, do you think the bigger impact is from people struggling to feed their families, and heat their homes? Not those with plenty and regularly flying off for city breaks, skiing and winter sun? I’m not sure I follow your logic.

Ok try convincing a Polish family to convert their coal and wood burning central heating system to solar panels while the household takes in €700 per month.. You could repeat this over much of Eastern Europe and Rural Russia. That is millions of households burning wood from already depleted forests. Its a double hit. Only wealth and general education will change this.

Some need to read this

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-is-greta-thunberg-so-triggering-for-certain-men-1.4002264?mode=amp

@Andypaul, how is Trump helping people in Rural Russia to decarbonise? You’ve really lost me now.