There is no such thing as bad publicity!

I think this is the perfect counter-argument to that old chestnut.

I’m sure many others within the movement will be dismayed.

There is no such thing as bad publicity!

Ahem, Gerald Ratner

I know a lot of people use that phrase without thinking, but you must know that its completely untrue, right?

edited to remove weird blockquote

People defying the law to take direct action to correct a situation they think is wrong. Totally, totally different to XR…

I guess that must have sounded quite clever in your head.

Bless.

Still talking about them.

Just saying.

People would still be talking about them if they’d been kicking puppies.

Just saying.

surely better to just chase them around and see how much they enjoy being stuck together in daily life…

I think the should have just been left alone and ignored, at some point they would have realised that one of them needed a wee/poo/to eat/go home/etc.

Dear Extinction Rebellion,

The Tube & all modes of public transport are part of the solution to climate change, not the problem.

Can we kindly suggest you stick to protesting against those who create the problem. Not our industry, members + hard working commuters.

Many thanks.

— ASLEF (@ASLEFunion) October 17, 2019

I agree with them for the most part but the tube is daft- it’s mass transit ffs. Yes the idea was to be very visible but there’s smarter ways to do that.

I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea; you hear the same about strikes, and tbf if you go along with that you basically turn yourself irrelevant, nobody will ever notice you if you’re not a pain in the arse.

I agree their tactics are questionable and against the wrong target, but the sight of people being assaulted by a mob is, to my mind at least, very disturbing. Welcome to Britain 2019…

What did they honestly think was going to happen eventually? Two weeks of disruption to the daily lives of Londoners, many who don’t have the luxury to take a few weeks off to go and protest something, culminating in some idiots jumping on top of the Tube and in doing so stopping you getting home from or to work?

It’s all well and good claiming the right of peaceful protest (although kicking someone in the head is an odd form of peaceful protest) but eventually the reality that your actions are having a very real impact on the general public is going to lead to a backlash.

XR were being tolerated by many Londoners, but XR decided to up the ante and take their protests beyond the agreed protest sites. You can’t claim the freedom to protest unhindered within a civil society when you step outside the agreements made with said society, to both allow your protest and reduce its impact on those who don’t share your view.

Actions have consequences or, to put it another way…play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The Met Police have previously infiltrated environmental protest groups, and encouraged them to take more illegal action.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2018/oct/15/uk-political-groups-spied-on-undercover-police-list

Shot themselves well and truly in the foot with this one.  All its done is wind up frustrated commuters and any eco thoughts they were having will have well and truly been over written with “those eco-loons made me late for work/hospital appointment etc”

Ahem, Gerald Ratner

The exception that proves the rule?

Still talked about 28 years later and has a successful career as a public speaker.

If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines

Northwind

Subscriber

If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines

Do you really believe that will happen?

JP

Probably will result in lots of new signage for the trains explaining how dangerous it is to climb on the roof as it clearly isn’t obvious to some people. Its highly likely it will result in a good kicking from the commuters assuming you don’t fall off and get hit be a train, the ground or zapped by the live rail. Might need a whole new coach for all the signage needed. Not very environmentally friendly really.

Do you really believe that will happen?

Do you believe it will not?

If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines

Do you really believe that will happen?

Yes, absolutely yes

and for those that don’t – is it worth the risk of being wrong.  This isn’t a case of saying “oops, sorry”.  The world is going to be ****, on our watch, and we are worried about getting to work on time 🙁

“Do you really believe that will happen?”

Already has, a lot of the tube stations were closed due to flooding last week.

“Two weeks of disruption to the daily lives of Londoners,”

I haven’t noticed much disruption in the City, a couple of extra beardy people on bikes maybe, but nothing compared to a broken down car on one of the bridges, when a bus hits a cyclist, or even a football match.

If you want disruption you should try commuting on Northern Rail 😂

Already has, a lot of the tube stations were closed due to flooding last week.

Were they? If so, it was rain, not the Thames overflowing…pretty sure that would have made the news, as a result of the billions of pounds of damage it would have caused

Were they? If so, it was rain, not the Thames overflowing…pretty sure that would have made the news, as a result of the billions of pounds of damage it would have caused

What do you think the thames barrier is for?

I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea; you hear the same about strikes, and tbf if you go along with that you basically turn yourself irrelevant, nobody will ever notice you if you’re not a pain in the arse.

There are more intelligent ways of protesting that don’t involve being assholes to your most likely supporters, like energy providers, more polluting forms of transportation, like airlines, shipping, road freight, etc.
Causing mayhem on the Tube, however…

There are more intelligent ways of protesting that don’t involve being assholes to your most likely supporters, like energy providers, more polluting forms of transportation, like airlines, shipping, road freight, etc.
Causing mayhem on the Tube, however…

Its interesting in that this wasnt what the majority of XR wanted but they aren’t a dictatorship.  Apparently the people who took this action knew yesterday that the majority of XR didn’t want it, they had been given the data on the polls on this and had each been talked to individually but it was still their choice to go ahead.  It sounds like most of the XR folks would agree with everything you say

I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea

Yes, quite. People are labouring under the impression that this is a popularity contest.

Are they not just trying to disrupt the capitalist machine?

I find deadlydarcy’s snowflake attitude a bit odd, seeing as the protester wasn’t afraid to draw first blood and kick someone in the face, I call it karma for stopping people getting home, going to work or getting to an appointment, they need to realise all the consequences and affects of their protests on decent people, if I did what that protester did I’d expect and deserve a good beating, he got off lightly IMO, surely that protest has to be the most ironic one so far, the fact that one protest was even using a generator says everything about these xr morons. Nothing they do will matter or change anything.

And they even print their flyers on paper, from, you know, the rainforest!

I think XR missed the mark with the tube protest.

If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change ….

Combined with comments about raising awareness, sparking debate, getting publicity, disrupting the capitalist machine this is heading in a worrying direction that I can’t support.

Sadly climate change is likely already killing people around the world and will kill many more. It seems that fact could justify a pretty nasty response from the more extreme end of XR:

2019- XR agree action is needed to raise awareness of looming climate disaster. XR disrupt the commute of workers at CT (I guess more likely to be junior analysts, admin staff, cleaners, catering staff, security guards, maintenance workers etc rather than decision makers). Commuters who don’t appreciate XR’s enlightened actions are given a gentle kick in the head to avoid the protest being inconsequential.

2020- XR are shocked little has changed. G7 meeting doesn’t even have climate change on the agenda. It’s clear more action is required. XR activists up the ante by (non-violently) handcuffing themselves to a senior banker for a few hours until bank agrees to dump coal power station investments.

2021- XR are shocked little has changed. ….

I am concerned about the environment and generally support taking measured and targeted action. I think the paralympian guy’s stunt climbing on a plane at LCY was ok. The 10 or so firemen, police and airport workers standing round looking confused was mildly amusing to me. If I was heading off to Malaga for a jolly in the sun I would be questioning my choice and maybe feeling guilty. I definitely wouldn’t have a problem with the guy.

I ride to work but think I’d be pretty annoyed if I were a commuter at CT. I definitely wouldn’t be thinking “my 1.2kwh* share of electricity for this tube journey is destroying the planet so I will walk tomorrow” or “I will stop working until the boss of my company refuses to deal with Trafigura- my kids will thank me”. Having said that, I like to think I would have been protecting the protester from getting kicked while he was on the ground. By contrast at Devon’s Rd a group of people sometimes serve free hot drinks on cold mornings and nights. I assume it’s a church group and even though I won’t be going to the church I keep intending to stop and hear their message.

I think action and “rebellion” have their place but I think domestically XR should be encouraging people to make more environmentally friendly decisions for themselves and *helping* them do it.

Internationally I don’t know what the solution is. I get London is a target because of its global influence but annoying some DLR commuters doesn’t seem that effective.

* Estimated from https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1482-1819 and https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/

I think action and “rebellion” have their place but I think domestically XR should be encouraging people to make more environmentally friendly decisions for themselves and *helping* them do it.

I think their point is that we are beyond the point where a few less plastic straws and taking the bus to Asda will cut it any more.   we need to be moving faster but it requires political willpower rather than an organic change of willpower amongst the general population.  It’s a tough message they are trying to push

[apologies in advance for a rant :)]

it requires political willpower rather than an organic change of willpower amongst the general population

OK but even for a political diktat they need wider support than they have at the moment (in any approximation of democracy).

Their demands [ https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/ ] sound naive to me even though I believe we already have serious ecological and climate issues.

I wonder which group of people should be denied powered travel first (mountain bikers in T5s will be pretty low priority I hope then at least this forum will be more bike focused :)). Or which NIMBY communities should get a new nuclear power plant nearby. Or which farms should be compulsory purchased for afforestation. Or what industries are worthy of electricity. […]

Stuff like this needs to be figured out and implemented before 2025, essentially with today’s technology- no cold fusion allowed!

Making the working class lose money, possibly their job, miss important appointments and job interviews is no way to get the public onside, they’ve just lost the public support. 95% of the population are against their actions. Attacking the cleanest form of public transport and angering the general public is a complete backfire and a retarded way to show us a glimpse of our dystopian future if we don’t change our ways, even if we do ban fossil fuels what’s stopping supervolcano’s from erupting and wiping us all out anyway.

XR disrupt the commute of workers at CT (I guess more likely to be junior analysts, admin staff, cleaners, catering staff, security guards, maintenance workers etc rather than decision makers).

You’ve never been to London have you?
I know one decision maker who drives to work. All the others walk, cycle or use public transport. The vast majority of this who drive are those who are given tasks.
I know and work with/ for people responsible for/ controlling/ spending billions of pounds.

LOL @aP … I’m ashamed for taking the bait but whatever-

1. 8th year in east London.
2. My quote is specifically about the tube from Canning Town (CT in case that’s not obvious). Sure there has been a lot of regeneration in the area and if you only see the new build flats going up you might be forgiven for thinking the area is awash with those “controlling spending billions”. However,

[..] Canning Town and Custom House are among the five percent most deprived areas in the UK. Residents suffer from poor health, low education and poverty. 17 percent of the working age population have a limiting long-term illness, 17.5 percent claim income support and 49.7 percent of 16- to 74-year-olds have no formal qualifications.[12]

I expect you will reply with several examples of senior colleagues who live in CT and take the Jubilee to CW- yeah sure fine, but that’s not contradicting what I said.

3. Re. your last sentence- simply LOL.

OK but even for a political diktat they need wider support than they have at the moment (in any approximation of democracy).

I’d say it’s not about XR getting public support. They aren’t running for office. They don’t need to have a comfy slogan. It’s about one way or another making people realise that there’s a crisis and then doing what is required. It’s sad if indeed it’s necessary for people to be given a free cup of coffee and an organic muffin before they’ll act to save the planet.

OMG I just looked at the photo and take back my comment- seems I made a mistake.

They’re covering their faces well but I spotted some senior figures getting a good shoe in. I forgot they’re well known to stay in Canning Town on their frequent visits to Canary Wharf. Even a guy who lives in Kensington is there at Canning Town being disrupted.

Are they not just trying to disrupt the capitalist machine?

people work and use public transport under socialist machines as well…

I’ve been supporting this lot ever since last black friday when I bought my IPhone XR 🙂

even if we do ban fossil fuels what’s stopping supervolcano’s from erupting and wiping us all out anyway.

It’s only a matter of time whatever we do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction

Worth a read…
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/20/extinction-rebels-have-noble-casue-what-they-dont-need-is-tactical-stupidity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction

that’s really going to happen – lots of people may die but extinction ain’t going to happen…